If there was illegal activity then punishment is in order. However, there's a big difference between this and other corruption scandals: Reid didn't abuse his power as a senator in any way. It was a personal dealing that didn't involve any form of government influence. Thusly, I personally don't think it reflects all that poorly on his character. Not to mention Reid is not exactly in danger of being defeated. He's a popular, powerful incumbent, and while I'd like to see someone more liberal as the head of the dems in the Senate, I certainly don't want to see Reid defeated, and frankly I don't really care about this all that much. Looks like the Republican attack machine scraping the bottom of the barrel for scandal, as it has a tendency to do.
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,161
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And people call me a hack and shill?
Slash how much money are you being paid to post here?
From USA Today link
Could it be that they voted to over rule the zoning board just because they liked the deal? Or could it be that they did it since Harry Reid, a very powerful senator, was involved?
It sure sounds like Harry's partner was trying to use the power of Reid's name to get the zoning change. Without that change they don't sell the land and they don't make millions of dollars.
BTW: on a side note, I did not know that Harry was pro-life, read that on his wiki profile. Who would have thoght would be leaders of the Senate Democrats is pro-life. But he also got a 100% rating from NARAL. It's like he can't make up his mind or something.
theeedude
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
- 35,787
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LOL, You Republicans are getting so desperate to distract from Foley soliciting young pages for sex and GOP leadership covering up for him, too bad noone cares about land deals. Maybe if Reid had sex with interns or better yet, pages, on that land, you'd have something.
Remember how little people cared about Whitewater compared to Monica Lewinski giving Clinton oral sex?
Remember how little people cared about Whitewater compared to Monica Lewinski giving Clinton oral sex?
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
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Well that is the apathy and ignorance of the sheep. Whitewater was big stuff. Vince Foster lost his life over it, and Susan McDougal went to jail to protect the Clintons. Poor old Jim is no longer with us either.
- Jun 27, 2005
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OMG... LMAO. QFH.
So your position is that since Rs are neck deep in scandal they have no business pointing out scandals on the other side? OK.
Sorry bud. This one stands on its own. It's no less important because of someone else's actions. It's corruptive appearance is not reduced by the actions of other people. It is what it is: A sweetheart land deal, hidden from the public, that is in obvious violation of senate rules and was potentially illegal... We'll see as the investigation unfolds. But to just dismiss it as some desperate October Surprise or Republican sour grapes or a mere distraction from other scandals... well... I think you can figure out what the "H" stands for at the top of my post.
Reid is not a "distraction." Reid is a party hack who screamed "Culture of Corruption" over and over and over... Oh the irony.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
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What do you make of Hastert's deal? It seems to me like a much more serious breach of congressional ethics rules than Reid's, since it involves directly using his influence to generate profit for himself, with no disclosure made to the House Ethics Committee.
- Jun 27, 2005
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It actually looks very similar.
Both deals were obviously shady.
Neither disclosed their interest in an investment.
Both used their influence to inflate the value of their investment.
Both made out like bandits.
Both need to be booted as far as I'm concerned.
I'd like to point out though, (If I read that right) Hastert was listed as the owner of the investment in the trust. Senate rules and conflict of interest issues aside, there is a clear paper trail that documents his entitlement to collect his profits. HOW those profits came about is most definitely wrong. I'm not dismissing that. But at least we can see the trail.
Reid on the other hand, made $1.1 million on the sale of land that he had already sold. He wasn't the owner. He was also not listed as an owner or principal in the company that profited from the sale of the land. Yet he made money anyway. There is no clear paper trail as to how he was entitled to those profits.
Also, as I said before, the actions of others do not diminish the actions of Reid.
If you'd like to start your own Hastart thread, feel free.
XMan
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
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Finally, if we?re going to do taxes, let?s do something that will make a difference for those who need it. Talk to any economist and they will tell you that in America today, the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, and the middle class is getting squeezed.
Why don?t we do something to provide tax relief for the middle-class?
We can start by fixing the AMT. The AMT was originally established to ensure that millionaires paid their fair share. But because AMT income levels were not indexed for inflation, it has essentially become a tax increase for millions of middle-class families. This was never the AMT?s purpose, and we should fix it this month.
Tax fairness should be the Senate?s focus, not immoral, unfair tax breaks that will benefit a privileged few."
- Senator Harry Raid, April 2006
Hmm, so let me see if I understand this . . . Harry Reid, who believes that the wealthy should pay in more taxes . . . does everything in his power to completely minimize any sort of tax liability on a shady land deal in which he made a 275% profit on his investment.
I guess only us proles should be the ones who have to pay taxes, eh Harry?
Why don?t we do something to provide tax relief for the middle-class?
We can start by fixing the AMT. The AMT was originally established to ensure that millionaires paid their fair share. But because AMT income levels were not indexed for inflation, it has essentially become a tax increase for millions of middle-class families. This was never the AMT?s purpose, and we should fix it this month.
Tax fairness should be the Senate?s focus, not immoral, unfair tax breaks that will benefit a privileged few."
- Senator Harry Raid, April 2006
Hmm, so let me see if I understand this . . . Harry Reid, who believes that the wealthy should pay in more taxes . . . does everything in his power to completely minimize any sort of tax liability on a shady land deal in which he made a 275% profit on his investment.
I guess only us proles should be the ones who have to pay taxes, eh Harry?
Frankly this is a good example of people making highly misleading claims.
http://www.forbes.com/technology/ebusiness/feeds/ap/2006/10/11/ap3083826.html
In other words Reid had simply transferred his stake into another company and had NOT actually sold it. The financial details should make it clear that he hadn't previously made money from the land sale prior to the company selling it. You can argue that the documentation isn't 100% clear on this point yet, but it definately doesn't point the other way either. Frankly it really bugs me that people and news reports are making misleading claims in an apparent attempt to manufacture a scandal involving the Democrats.
dahunan
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2002
- 18,191
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^^^ WOW.. Good ol LIBERAL MEDIA at it again.. damn that liberal conspiracy..
Does anyone ever just feel really dirty and scummy trying to follow the criminals who run this country.. Politicians are just as bad as hardcore gangsters worse really because their theft usually makes others poor
Does anyone ever just feel really dirty and scummy trying to follow the criminals who run this country.. Politicians are just as bad as hardcore gangsters worse really because their theft usually makes others poor
theeedude
Lifer
- Feb 5, 2006
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Where did I say that? Rs can point out whatever they want, I am just saying it'll get no traction, because it's boring.
This story will go nowhere, most people's eyes will glaze over when you talk about some omissions on obscure disclosure forms and they'll just switch the channel, so news media won't talk about it, so it will become an even bigger nonstory. Plus, Reid is not running for reelection this year.
- Jun 27, 2005
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Meh... you're probably right. I hadn't even heard of the Hastert thing until this thread. Obviously the AP saw a guy shouting "Culture of Corruption" who was engaged in something was was not on the level... Red Meat. I haven't heard boo about Washington for a while now. Find a ton of cash in a freezer... big news for a while then nothing.
Sometimes I just want to cash out and squat on some uninhabited island in the South Pacific where a shady land deal will amount to me sitting under a palm tree drinking a cold beer.
As much as I say it, sometimes I have to remind myself that politics is a team sport. You only go after the corruption that happens on the other team. Otherwise... pfft.
Being able to make a profit on asset(s) he doesn't own is just plain miraculous. I have yet to see a Republican being able to do this. This is not covered by the media, i.e, only a few MSM are covering this, so this will not affect the election. ABC, CBS and NBC did not carry this story at all. But, they did carry the Foley story throughout the day every day for at least a week.
That definately doesn't appear to be the case in this situation either, although such an occurance would be miraculous. Bad reporting aside, the evidence suggests Reid exchanged ownership in a company for direct ownership of the land. The financial details once examined should bear this out, basic facts such as whether Reid obtained money for his land prior to the company having the land being sold should be easily obtainable. Basically we definately appear to be talking about a question about a clear discloser of a financial interest, which is an extremely common issue with Congress which has occured with Dennis Hastert and George Allen most recently, and not the sort of story some seem to be spinning this as.
ProfJohn
Lifer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 18,161
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Some damning details about the land deal in a WaPo article.
and
Reid is so dirty it is sickening.
Washington Post story
You notice that Reid bought the land AFTER the land swap was completed, without that Federal land swap this deal would have never happened.
and
What is left unsaid is that Reid's own son sits on the commission that approved the rezoning and Reid's name was dropped at the meeting in which the decided to rezone it.
Reid is so dirty it is sickening.
Washington Post story
"So dirty it is sickening"? While I certainly am not a big fan of shady political crap like this, it hardly qualifies as an eyebrow raiser much less a scandal. Hell, conspiracy theories about Haliburton getting preferential treatment are more interesting and just as relevant, and even they seem old...people have accepted this sort of thing as how politics works. Certainly not something we should admire in our leaders, but not something that is going to get the kind of outrage the Republicans are clearly hoping for.
I've read this entire thread several times, and I STILL can't understand what Reid did that was so terrible...this isn't going to have a lot of legs with the public, regardless of how much the right-wing media is going to flog this story from now until election day. Intricate land deals and innuendo about wrongdoing are going to bore the public to tears. Again, I don't approve of political glad handing like this, but I think you righties are trying to make WAY too big of a deal about this. I hope the Republicans nationally do the same thing, they'll look like idiots trying to deflect attention away from Foley. "Well our guy may have been a sexual predator and our leadership may have covered up for him, but Harry Reid was involved in this complicated land deal where he obviously did SOMETHING wrong, although we're not quite sure what it was".
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
- 67
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Something tells me PJ is not even bothered, much less "sickened," by Hastert's deal, which was more profitable and involves a direct abuse of his role in Congress. OTOH, PJ is the same man who purports to be "disgusted" by the outing of Congressional staffers, but who himself outs Congressional staffers. Maybe his sensitive stomach has to do with his diet rather than the news - I guess feigning all that outrage would get to anyone over time.
Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
So how much traction is this story getting? I ask merely for information.
I'm guessing you like crooks.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
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The relevent point that should be made is that jury is still out on the Reid land deal---yes he made money on it--lots of people make money on real estate---buts its still not yet clear Reid's deal was illegal---or even unethical.
But on the surface it appears shady---so for that matter was whitewater---so we hired Ken Starr---who spent something like 67 million
dollars over a period of nearly three of four years---and found absolutely nothing that could demonstrate the Clintons did anything wrong.---and abused the rights of everyone else periferally involved and tried to intimidate them into lying.
I noticed someone dredged up Vince Foster again---whose death has created a zillion conspiracy theories---and the basis is always the blanket assumtion he died regarding the Clintons---when he happened to have a history of depression---and lots of people commit suiside---and it often has nothing to do with anything we understand.---for all we know his goldfish was gostoppen---and that triggered
his death.----but assumtions are not facts---they just seem to be to people who don't think things through.---and at the end of the four years---Ken Starr---as a totally biased person---did conclude he had nothing.
But that is the stuff conspiracy theories are made of---the blanket assumtions---that in the light of day may be due to other things.
So until the facts are in---I will reserve judgement.
But on the surface it appears shady---so for that matter was whitewater---so we hired Ken Starr---who spent something like 67 million
dollars over a period of nearly three of four years---and found absolutely nothing that could demonstrate the Clintons did anything wrong.---and abused the rights of everyone else periferally involved and tried to intimidate them into lying.
I noticed someone dredged up Vince Foster again---whose death has created a zillion conspiracy theories---and the basis is always the blanket assumtion he died regarding the Clintons---when he happened to have a history of depression---and lots of people commit suiside---and it often has nothing to do with anything we understand.---for all we know his goldfish was gostoppen---and that triggered
his death.----but assumtions are not facts---they just seem to be to people who don't think things through.---and at the end of the four years---Ken Starr---as a totally biased person---did conclude he had nothing.
But that is the stuff conspiracy theories are made of---the blanket assumtions---that in the light of day may be due to other things.
So until the facts are in---I will reserve judgement.
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