Recent Palestinian Suicide Bombings

[0roo0roo]

whats your point? the palestinians live in limbo because they decided to reject all the offers of sovereignty they got. 87% of their population supports the use of suicide bombers by organizations that see nothing less then all the land as the minimum offer of peace.

 

[syzygy]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
whats your point? the palestinians live in limbo because they decided to reject all the offers of sovereignty they got. 87% of their population supports the use of suicide bombers by organizations that see nothing less then all the land as the minimum offer of peace.

whats the point. jeez its not like i didn't take him by the hand and walk him through the clarification point by point. he then proceeds
to concede the 'moral contradiction' (surprise !), then put into quotes (whoa !) and finally begins blathering on in the same fashion as
i had just finished correcting the previous post on. truly pathological.

1) Alleged Bad: Palestinians: The Palestinians live in limbo neither having the right to Sovereign Self Determination nor do they have
the ability to Defend themselves. There land is slowly yet surely being taken from those who have clearly stated that that's there intention,
they've been cut off from their employment, and they regularly are subjected to Marshal Law.

newsflash, genius: unlike the early american colonists who lived unrepresented upon the whim of a flighty king, the palestinian people
actually elected their leaders. they have a government with an office of prime minister and the whole rest of it. hamas and those other
murderer friends of yours are not a legitimate voice for anything other than demented savages. the mere fact you are defending mass
murderers when the palestinian prime minister concedes their destructive influence is pathetic beyond words. and i bet you were
against america's 'unprovoked aggresion', weren't you ?

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: sandorski
You guys drawing distinctions between the actions, targets, and reasong of the Israeli's and Palestinians are correct. However, it's a pointless distinction and only perpetuates the situation.

Facts:

1) Palestinians do not have a military
2) Palestinians do not have a Homeland(at least the Palestinians in question)
3) Israelis do have a military
4) Israleis do have a Homeland
5) Israelis are coopting land where the Palestinians live
6) Palestinians not only do not have a Homeland, but their only hope to establish a Homeland dwindles with each day as Israelis develop Settlements

that is exactly the problem. The arabs have many factions representing them; from terror cells to legitimate gov't. Unfortunately, there has to be a civil war between the palestinians so that they can sort this leadership-crisis out.

And don't blame the lack of a Palestinian country on israel. when jordan and egypt had control of the palestinians, they exacerbated the problem by using the Palestinians as political tools in their wars against israel. The arab guardian of the Palestinians are the primary reason why Palestinians are in such dire straights. Five fruitless wars did absolutely nothing to help a single Palestinian. It only made things worse.

 

[DealMonkey]

Already, IDF is rolling into the West Bank, eager to take revenge:

FoxNews.com - Israeli Tanks Raid West Bank Towns in Response to Homicide Bombing

NABLUS, West Bank ? Israeli troops raided the West Bank towns of Jenin (search) and Nablus (search) early Thursday, searching for Palestinian militants responsible for Tuesday's massive homicide bombing (search) that killed 20 people -- despite efforts from the Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas (search) to ease tensions.

In Hebron (search), Israeli troops blew up the home of the Tuesday's homicide bomber. The family had moved out, anticipating that the home would soon be demolished.

The bomber, 29-year-old mosque preacher Raed Mesk, was friends with an Islamic Jihad leader in Hebron, Mohammed Sidr, who was killed by Israeli troops last week.

In a village just outside Jenin, troops early Thursday also demolished the home of a homicide bomber who blew himself up last month, killing one Israeli woman. Israel regularly destroys the home of homicide attackers, hoping it will be a deterrent.

Shots resonated through the Jenin landscape after some 20 tanks, personnel carriers and other vehicles entered, witnesses said, but there were no immediate reports of casualties in either town. Israeli soldiers issued a curfew in central Nablus after more than 30 vehicles -- mostly trucks and a few tanks -- entered the town.

...

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: syzygy

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
whats your point? the palestinians live in limbo because they decided to reject all the offers of sovereignty they got. 87% of their population supports the use of suicide bombers by organizations that see nothing less then all the land as the minimum offer of peace.

whats the point. jeez its not like i didn't take him by the hand and walk him through the clarification point by point. he then proceeds
to concede the 'moral contradiction' (surprise !), then put into quotes (whoa !) and finally begins blathering on in the same fashion as
i had just finished correcting the previous post on. truly pathological.

1) Alleged Bad: Palestinians: The Palestinians live in limbo neither having the right to Sovereign Self Determination nor do they have
the ability to Defend themselves. There land is slowly yet surely being taken from those who have clearly stated that that's there intention,
they've been cut off from their employment, and they regularly are subjected to Marshal Law.

newsflash, genius: unlike the early american colonists who lived unrepresented upon the whim of a flighty king, the palestinian people
actually elected their leaders. they have a government with an office of prime minister and the whole rest of it. hamas and those other
murderer friends of yours are not a legitimate voice for anything other than demented savages. the mere fact you are defending mass
murderers when the palestinian prime minister concedes their destructive influence is pathetic beyond words. and i bet you were
against america's 'unprovoked aggresion', weren't you ?

Where's your "Moral Contradiction"? You don't have one.

I know that Americans were unrepresented, but you must admit that Americans didn't have to live with the same degree of crap as Palestinians. Hence, the Moral Dilemna.

The problem with Palestinian representation, is that it is powerless, the Terrorist organizations are more powerful than the government.

At any rate, both sides of the conflict are *equally* responsible. At one time Israel had the Moral ground, but after decades of senseless back-and-forth "revenge" missions, who the hell cares who started it?

 

[0roo0roo]

thats how i justify killing cops. after years of going after criminals and sometimes causing civilian casualties, i consider the two to be morally equivalent

the fact that you don't care about the source of the problem.. is the problem.

one side targets civilians. one side doesn't. trying to make a moral equivalence between the two is simply intellectual dishonesty.

killing a man that makes bombs that kill civilians is justified.

and don't even begin to compare america to the genocidal hatred of the palestinians, who have used terrorism since the 1920's. the fact is they used terrorism even before occupation or any of their other supposed justifications, get that through your thick skull. your comparison with america is wrong on so many levels. did americans blow up british children? were the palestinians colonists? did king george repeatedly give offers of peace and sovereignty only to be rebuked when the americans would accept nothing less then complete control of america AND britain? did the americans conspire to use death camps on the british for a final solution in the footsteps of hitler? did americans fight to wipe british off the face of the planet? did americans assassinate and torture its own that did not agree with them like the palestinians? did the americans teach their children to become marytres by killing civilians as the highest calling? did the americans official charter deny the existence of britain? did the americans deny all british citizenship? i could type forever...

the arabs have always commited war crimes that the world has turned a blind eye to. in any war against the arabs, the arabs always targeted civilian centers with bombing or bombardment, while the israelis concentrate on military targets. its a certain racism that leads one to be blind to this, and its a certain racism that leads arabs and palestinians to sink to such levels of behavior.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
thats how i justify killing cops. after years of going after criminals and sometimes causing civilian casualties, i consider the two to be morally equivalent

the fact that you don't care about the source of the problem.. is the problem.

one side targets civilians. one side doesn't. trying to make a moral equivalence between the two is simply intellectual dishonesty.

killing a man that makes bombs that kill civilians is justified.

and don't even begin to compare america to the genocidal hatred of the palestinians, who have used terrorism since the 1920's. the fact is they used terrorism even before occupation or any of their other supposed justifications, get that through your thick skull. your comparison with america is wrong on so many levels. did americans blow up british children? were the palestinians colonists? did king george repeatedly give offers of peace and sovereignty only to be rebuked when the americans would accept nothing less then complete control of america AND britain? did the americans conspire to use death camps on the british for a final solution in the footsteps of hitler? did americans fight to wipe british off the face of the planet? did americans assassinate and torture its own that did not agree with them like the palestinians? did the americans teach their children to become marytres by killing civilians as the highest calling? did the americans official charter deny the existence of britain? did the americans deny all british citizenship? i could type forever...

the arabs have always commited war crimes that the world has turned a blind eye to. in any war against the arabs, the arabs always targeted civilian centers with bombing or bombardment, while the israelis concentrate on military targets. its a certain racism that leads one to be blind to this, and its a certain racism that leads arabs and palestinians to sink to such levels of behavior.

Fine then. Let them continue, I won't try to stop them.

 

[povertystruck]

I heard Ariel Sharon is up for war crimes (you know short fat guy). Anyone ever see video footage of a an arab cameraman(actually all sorts of camermen) being shot by israeli's(modified rubber bullets scrape off the plastic, shoot closer than you're supposed to). Is there such a thing as a jewish terrorist? I think so, I call them zionists.

Do both sides want peace? Israel wants to expand(so, no). Maybe, most palestinians want peace, but they cant control Hamas(war against hamas and other groups would result in civil war which would only benefit Israel).

~~~~~It would be nice if both sides could get along but the fact is arabs and jews have hated each other since the old testement(I think).I have a simple solution to the problem: both sides should have a soccer match who ever wins call the coin toss which determines who gets a piece of land some where in Canada(maybe Vancouver island). The other side gets to keep the piece of crap land that is the source of the problem.~~~~~~

If some wierd plan like the one I suggested isn't offered than some time in the future Israel will be nuked or a dirty bomb will go off.

 

[Vernor]

Palestinians do not have a Homeland(at least the Palestinians in question)

Israel will not alllow the establishment of another Islamist terror state, whose declared goal is the its destruction.

 

[Vernor]

one side targets civilians. one side doesn't. trying to make a moral equivalence between the two is simply intellectual dishonesty.

killing a man that makes bombs that kill civilians is justified.

When a terrorist uses civilians as human shields, their deaths are his responsibility.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Vernor

one side targets civilians. one side doesn't. trying to make a moral equivalence between the two is simply intellectual dishonesty.

killing a man that makes bombs that kill civilians is justified.

When a terrorist uses civilians as human shields, their deaths are his responsibility.

omg ju are s000 right, nothing Israel does is wrong, its all the Palestinians they are to blame for every death there since the begining of time!!!

 

[ThePresence]

It's interesting to me how many people have such strong opinions on this subject without having a clue what really goes on there. Most of you get your "facts" from the media. The media without exception, twist everything to fit their own political agendas.

 

[Vernor]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Vernor

one side targets civilians. one side doesn't. trying to make a moral equivalence between the two is simply intellectual dishonesty.

killing a man that makes bombs that kill civilians is justified.

When a terrorist uses civilians as human shields, their deaths are his responsibility.

omg ju are s000 right, nothing Israel does is wrong, its all the Palestinians they are to blame for every death there since the begining of time!!!

Non sequitur.

And to be expected.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
It's interesting to me how many people have such strong opinions on this subject without having a clue what really goes on there. Most of you get your "facts" from the media. The media without exception, twist everything to fit their own political agendas.

What are you saying dude? Where do you propose we get our info from?

 

[mrCide]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
It's interesting to me how many people have such strong opinions on this subject without having a clue what really goes on there. Most of you get your "facts" from the media. The media without exception, twist everything to fit their own political agendas.

Presence, while you argue well, you are still biased and therefor no different than anyone else with such strong opinions. Am I wrong?

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: mrCide

Originally posted by: ThePresence
It's interesting to me how many people have such strong opinions on this subject without having a clue what really goes on there. Most of you get your "facts" from the media. The media without exception, twist everything to fit their own political agendas.

Presence, while you argue well, you are still biased and therefor no different than anyone else with such strong opinions. Am I wrong?

Yes and no. You are correct that I'm probably biased to some degree. However, my biased opinions are based on hard, cold facts. Things that I've lived through and seen with my own eyes, unlike alot of other folks who have to rely on the twisted viewpoints of the media.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: ThePresence
It's interesting to me how many people have such strong opinions on this subject without having a clue what really goes on there. Most of you get your "facts" from the media. The media without exception, twist everything to fit their own political agendas.

What are you saying dude? Where do you propose we get our info from?

Unfortunately, unless you wanna move there, you are forced to rely on the media. Just realize that everyhting is slanted to fit a specific agenda, so you are not getting real facts. it's like this all over, with all media outlets.

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: mrCide

Originally posted by: ThePresence
It's interesting to me how many people have such strong opinions on this subject without having a clue what really goes on there. Most of you get your "facts" from the media. The media without exception, twist everything to fit their own political agendas.

Presence, while you argue well, you are still biased and therefor no different than anyone else with such strong opinions. Am I wrong?

Yes and no. You are correct that I'm probably biased to some degree. However, my biased opinions are based on hard, cold facts. Things that I've lived through and seen with my own eyes, unlike alot of other folks who have to rely on the twisted viewpoints of the media.

So the only legitimate opinions are from those who have actually been there? Let me ask you this...suppose you had no ties to Israel and instead had ties to the Palestines, been a member of their 'resistance'. Do you think your opinion would be the same?

Not trying to argue...just taking exception to your Only I have seen the light statements.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Gaard

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: mrCide

Originally posted by: ThePresence
It's interesting to me how many people have such strong opinions on this subject without having a clue what really goes on there. Most of you get your "facts" from the media. The media without exception, twist everything to fit their own political agendas.

Presence, while you argue well, you are still biased and therefor no different than anyone else with such strong opinions. Am I wrong?

Yes and no. You are correct that I'm probably biased to some degree. However, my biased opinions are based on hard, cold facts. Things that I've lived through and seen with my own eyes, unlike alot of other folks who have to rely on the twisted viewpoints of the media.

So the only legitimate opinions are from those who have actually been there? Let me ask you this...suppose you had no ties to Israel and instead had ties to the Palestines, been a member of their 'resistance'. Do you think your opinion would be the same?

Not trying to argue...just taking exception to your Only I have seen the light statements.

Well, yes, I probably would, because I would be a product of my upbringing. If I was taught to hate every Israeli from age 2, then yes, I'm sure I'd have a different viewpoint. I am not saying "Only I have seen the light", but I am saying that it considerably brighter once you've actually lived through and experienced what goes on there firsthand, instead of relying on someone elses viewpoint filtered through that media outlet's political agenda.

 

[povertystruck]

Presence you say the media spins the news for its own purpose. I agree. However who runs the media? Oh ya the jews do. So if the media is biased towards Israel, than the Israeli's must be worse than I thought(land thieves, curfew or shot,etc.....).

P.s. Any Zionists on this forum? I would like to hear from a 'jewish terrorist' point of view

 

[Aimster]

I suggest you all go read the bookl Arab and Jew by David K. Shipler. You will realize that both sides are corrupt and horrible. Israel is just as bad as Palestine. The media does not jump when Israel kills civilians because they will be bashed for it. Palestine has suicidie bombers, Israel has tanks and jets. What is the difference? Palestinians cannot attack Israel's military as it is far to strong for them to take out so they go for the civilian population. Makes perfect sense. This is a war and both sides will do whatever to win it and obviously Palestine is losing. These bombers .. have NOTHING. poor families, growing up watching a foreign land come into your town with tanks and destroy houses and set up rules and check points. Your freedom taken away. What do you expect?

What did Palestine do when Israel launched strikes against an apartment? What can they do? How come the world doesn't allow Palestine to react in the same manner Israel is reacting to this bombing? Maybe because the west is anti-islam/arab???

You all keep mentioning how many suicide bombings there have been since 2000 .. well how many people have died just for throwing rocks? How many people have died just for breaking curfew. Did you know if a Palestinian wants to go grocery shopping and Israel has a curfew in that area they will most likley shoot you simply for violating the curfew.

Like I said read that book and you will get a great idea what is going on there. The author points out both sides and is not bias at all.

 

[rahvin]

Originally posted by: povertystruck
Presence you say the media spins the news for its own purpose. I agree. However who runs the media? Oh ya the jews do. So if the media is biased towards Israel, than the Israeli's must be worse than I thought(land thieves, curfew or shot,etc.....).

P.s. Any Zionists on this forum? I would like to hear from a 'jewish terrorist' point of view

Define Zionists and show how the "jews" control the media.

 

[kaizersose]

Originally posted by: Aimster
... These bombers .. have NOTHING. poor families, growing up watching a foreign land come into your town with tanks and destroy houses and set up rules and check points. Your freedom taken away. What do you expect.
......You all keep mentioning how many suicide bombings there have been since 2000 .. well how many people have died just for throwing rocks? How many people have died just for breaking curfew. Did you know if a Palestinian wants to go grocery shopping and Israel has a curfew in that area they will most likley shoot you simply for violating the curfew.

Like I said read that book and you will get a great idea what is going on there. The author points out both sides and is not bias at all.

- many suicide bombers are actually middle class and have plenty to live for. the most recent bomber was a preacher/cleric in a mosque.
- why do parents allow their young children to go throw rocks at tanks? they know rock throwers get shot at with rubber bullets and such so why do they endanger their children?
- if they cant go grocery shopping at night, they have two options: shop during the day or stop allowing muderers to hide amongst them and i am sure the curfews would be lifted. israel was all set to hand over four towns in the west bank to PA rule until the bombing two days ago. they had already left two of them. thats called shooting yourself in the foot. the palestinians need to realize that mass murder of israeli civilians will not get them a state of their own.

 

[0roo0roo]

What did Palestine do when Israel launched strikes against an apartment? What can they do? How come the world doesn't allow Palestine to react in the same manner Israel is reacting to this bombing? Maybe because the west is anti-islam/arab???

thats funnny, its the other way around. israel is judged by western standards while palestinians can get away with murder.. literally. the plo's policies are utterly draconian, torture, murder, there is no real judiciary for palestinians.

israel doesn't choose a random apartment to attack. it only attacks war criminals and those that harbor war criminals. if you hide a person that makes bombs that kill dozens or hundreds of civilians, you have to die.

and its funny how you are utterly blind to the fact that only one side targets civilians for death as their primary goal. seems the world is blind to this. the fact that all the islamic countries surrounding israel have commited war crimes by purposely attacking civilian centers each time they had a chance in war is utterly ignored. funny how many people who endlessly rail against israel for the smallest things utterly ignore the draconian policies in the surrounding arab countries. they are more anti israeli then islamic any day.

The media does not jump when Israel kills civilians because they will be bashed for it. Palestine has suicidie bombers,

i'm sorry, doesn't that just make them cowards? or plain stupid. when you lose, a wise choice is to surrender and try to make the best of your life for your childrens sake. examples? japan, germany etc. of course you have the option of self destruction too.

Israel has tanks and jets. What is the difference? Palestinians cannot attack Israel's military as it is far to strong for them to take out so they go for the civilian population.

i'm sorry,did you just really say that because they are too wimpy to go after military, that justifies attacks on civilians? its like hey, i can't go after that soldier, i'm a coward, instead i'll blow up women and children. i'm sorry, but many peoples have suffered and not had to justify mass murder of civilians as their "only choice". its called a false dilema, where you are blind to other REAL choices.

the fact is, the palestinians have guns, and bombs, lots of guns and bombs. if they wanted to, they could attack the military. and the fact is, they constantly do, shoot and the soldiers and bomb houses the soldiers are entering etc. so your arguement is utterly destroyed. the palestinians use suicide bombing for the political reasons and genicidal reasons. killing as many jews as possible is part of their plan, it always was since the time they had discussions with hitler. they also know the people of the world have short memories, and easily sympathise with people that blow themselves up apparenlty. even though the fact is the bombers are educated, have parents, and aren't severely depressed. they arent desperate like the spin doctors would have you believe, its called indoctrinated hatred that has made people capable of attrocities through the ages. like the nazi children sent to their certain deaths at the end of the war, they are indoctrinated to love death more then life, to glory in death and the death of their enemy. and the fact is, death is good for palestinians politically. jews die, they are happy, palestinians die, they got marytres to adore. its win win, and they still have calls for negotiations and everything, nothing lost at all.

 

[RDWYTruckDriver]

0roo0roo

:beer::beer: