Real reason MS's OSes suck

[drag]

You want to know the REAL reason that educated geeks everywhere praise Linux and BSD and disdane all MS products? Because unfortunatly we all know were "consumer"-based pc's were heading. This is what it means to live in a world dominated by monoplistic entities like Microsoft and freinds. It was just silly sounding to others. I have sounded paranoid and irrational to lots of people, but at least now we have proof. Ever wanted to know what it feels like to treated like a criminal by defualt?

just tuck your head

between your legs

and kiss your computer goodbye

Ya just remember that TCPA is just to protect YOUR rights! (rights against freedom, I guess) I guess they finally got fed up trying figure out how to control the internet (napster must of scared them sh**less) instead they just want to control your main access to it.

For all that is holy. Stop giving your money to these freaks. (ie Compaq, HP, IBM, Intel and Microsoft)

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: drag
For all that is holy. Stop giving your money to these freaks. (ie Compaq, HP, IBM, Intel and Microsoft)

I'm hoping that I can stick with Windows XP for a long time. I don't know when games and programs will require something new, but I plan on having XP for a while.

 

[Abzstrak]

Dont worry too much man, linux users and developers will always find a way around... I truely believe that the linux community as whole is more capable and more talented than the software vendors trying to put the TCPA together... It may take a while, but nothing is uncrackable.


Microsoft users however, will just get what they deserve for putting up with MS's crap all these years.

 

[Dreadogg]

I bet microsoft gets tons of money to attempt to develope this software, and even when they do it will be hacked before its release! Now thats not saying dont worry about it because if we all did that it would never get hacked, and then we could never make legedimit backups of our media. So even with that copywrite stuff on the media disks and hardware, they will most likly not work under linux as well, unless some sort of hack is implied there also, probally some sort of virtual wine kinda hacked up thing o mo jig (just a guess)along with hacked drivers. So pretty much Microsoft will just be making thier OS able to play these movies and media and hardware without stepping on anyone or stability problems, kinda like following the tide. I mean thats just how I see it. If I'm wrong I wrong just how I see it. Now where does APPLE stand in all this????

 

[Nothinman]

For all that is holy. Stop giving your money to these freaks. (ie Compaq, HP, IBM, Intel and Microsoft)

Incase you didn't know HP bought out Compaq recently, so they're the same company now. And HP and IBM are big Linux supporters.

TCPA isn't an entirely bad thing just like guns aren't entirely bad, but it has possibilty for bad uses just like guns. Most motherboards, atleast the first few revisions, will have a way to disable the fritz chip so you won't have to worry about it.

 

[bsobel]

Since most mainstream Linux variants will be adding support for this also, it's hard to follow your logic. Then again Nothinman comment on how there is good and bad in in this stuff is right on the money, but it doesn't sound like your willing to even understand why.

So, you're a developer and want to create your own programs? Of course, with a certified IDE you're able to write your own source code. But it's not possible to execute your programs you just developed - unless you're going to certify them (which costs about $100.000!).

Oh, that above quote from the documented you linked is simply lies.

It's no longer possible to install linux

More lies.

Bill

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: bsobel
Since most mainstream Linux variants will be adding support for this also, it's hard to follow your logic. Then again Nothinman comment on how there is good and bad in in this stuff is right on the money, but it doesn't sound like your willing to even understand why.

In order to support this, the linux companies will have to get their source approved and it will not be able to be changed by the user.

So, you're a developer and want to create your own programs? Of course, with a certified IDE you're able to write your own source code. But it's not possible to execute your programs you just developed - unless you're going to certify them (which costs about $100.000!).

Oh, that above quote from the documented you linked is simply lies.

So its less to get your software certified? Or you dont have to get your software certified in which case everything we know about palladium and whatnot is wrong?

It's no longer possible to install linux

More lies.

Bill

There has already been a bill put before congress that would outlaw the use of anything but approved OSes. Using hardware to achieve this does not seem as far out there to me as you seem to think it is.

 

[bsobel]

So its less to get your software certified? Or you dont have to get your software certified in which case everything we know about palladium and whatnot is wrong?

Software running in the trusted core needs to be signed, the cost to do that is not 100k. Additionally, there is no requriement in palladium that all code be running in the trusted core. Suggesting that suggests that all current software will no longer run, which is also not true.

Bill

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Yet another attempt to make computers perfect. It won't happen. Computers are flawed, just as flawed as the people who design them. Until people LEARN how computers work, and learn to interact with computers in a meaningful way (clicking through 4 dialog boxes is not meaningful), there will always be problems.

 

[Buddha Bart]

the sky is falling

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: bsobel

So its less to get your software certified? Or you dont have to get your software certified in which case everything we know about palladium and whatnot is wrong?

Software running in the trusted core needs to be signed, the cost to do that is not 100k. Additionally, there is no requriement in palladium that all code be running in the trusted core. Suggesting that suggests that all current software will no longer run, which is also not true.

Bill

If you allow unsigned code, the computer can no longer be trusted.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: Buddha Bart
the sky is falling

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Buddha Bart
the sky is falling

The paranoid survive.

 

[bsobel]

If you allow unsigned code, the computer can no longer be trusted.

Not true, that just means that application can not be trusted with certain secrets. As an example, lets say you have a palladium 'machine' and 'os'. You choose to purchase some music from Sony and download it onto the box. This is licensed music with DRM in effect. Winamp is an application which doesn't run in the trusted core, so it can't play these files as it can't access keys needed to decrypt them. Microsoft Media player is running in the trusted core, it can play the files. At the same time you rip a CD to mp3 files, both players can play those files.

It is true that applications running in the trusted core need to be signed. The cost you quoted (100k) is wrong, and it's not true that all (or even most) apps will need to run in the trusted core. Again, your suggesting that almost ALL current applications will not run on a palladium system. That is not the case, and I've not seen anyone else suggest it is.

Bill

 

[ProviaFan]

Trusted software and DRM isn't the only problem with TCPA. Another issue is that it essentially gives MS (or whomever is in control of the main servers) control to delete any file they desire on all systems. This would not only allow them to stop pirated copies of their OS (aka devilsown WinXP corp release, etc.), but also it would allow them to delete that Linux and the GPL vs. Microsoft article you wrote and distributed (where Linux comes out ahead of MS, of course) from every place where the article has been downloaded.

Another possibility (not saying this is going to happen, but it might) is that the RIAA could use this to prevent independent bands from recording their own stuff without paying many $$$$ or ???? for a "certified" professional sound card (presumably much of the money for that card would go to the RIAA to cover the supposed damages that they would be taking for the piracy that could happen with an "unprotected" card). I could go into the details of how this could be done, but am feeling tired now, so if you don't understand, I'll reply again in the morning with more info.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: bsobel

If you allow unsigned code, the computer can no longer be trusted.

Not true, that just means that application can not be trusted with certain secrets. As an example, lets say you have a palladium 'machine' and 'os'. You choose to purchase some music from Sony and download it onto the box. This is licensed music with DRM in effect. Winamp is an application which doesn't run in the trusted core, so it can't play these files as it can't access keys needed to decrypt them. Microsoft Media player is running in the trusted core, it can play the files. At the same time you rip a CD to mp3 files, both players can play those files.

It is true that applications running in the trusted core need to be signed. The cost you quoted (100k) is wrong, and it's not true that all (or even most) apps will need to run in the trusted core. Again, your suggesting that almost ALL current applications will not run on a palladium system. That is not the case, and I've not seen anyone else suggest it is.

Bill

Ok, so we are looking at something along the lines of virtual machines, or domains. But, if you allow unsigned code to be run at the same time unsigned code is, palladium will be craacked much easier. Do you remember about a year and a half to two years ago when a BIND bug was found? There was an "exploit" release to BUGTRAQ to exploit this vulnerability. What the exploit really did was overflow a buffer in itself, run some shell code to DoS Network Solutions. With something along these lines, the whole DRM protection could crumble. If, however, you were only allowed to use signed programs when DRM was turned on, and everything when turned off, you pretty much eliminate this problem. A hacker would have to find a hole in a signed program to exploit instead of being able to write his own.

I dont care about the price. We probably wont have a real number until closer to release.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

The whole idea is simply ridiculous. These computers are MINE and _I_ alone will have control over them. How can anyone go along with this stuff?

Enjoy your cookie cutter computers, I will be having some FUN with my computers in the mean time.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
The whole idea is simply ridiculous. These computers are MINE and _I_ alone will have control over them. How can anyone go along with this stuff?

Enjoy your cookie cutter computers, I will be having some FUN with my computers in the mean time.

1. Because this is what many people want. They want not be able to download music and movies easily.
2. Because most Americans do not understand the meaning of FREE.
3. Because most people just do not care anymore.
4. Because large corporations are the ones that make the rules, not us.
5. Because there are idiots out there that turn their eyes away from, or do not care about our rights being eroded in the name of the almighty dollar.

We are no longer US citizens, we are but consumers.

 

[Nothinman]

Another issue is that it essentially gives MS (or whomever is in control of the main servers) control to delete any file they desire on all systems

MS already has that power if they want it, TCPA adds nothing to that.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
The whole idea is simply ridiculous. These computers are MINE and _I_ alone will have control over them. How can anyone go along with this stuff?

Enjoy your cookie cutter computers, I will be having some FUN with my computers in the mean time.

1. Because this is what many people want. They want not be able to download music and movies easily.
2. Because most Americans do not understand the meaning of FREE.
3. Because most people just do not care anymore.
4. Because large corporations are the ones that make the rules, not us.
5. Because there are idiots out there that turn their eyes away from, or do not care about our rights being eroded in the name of the almighty dollar.

We are no longer US citizens, we are but consumers.

It's the type of thing that makes ya wanna just go live in a shack in the woods and hide from all of the evil freaks that control society.

I really hope to get out of this country one day, check out other places, quite possibly settle down somewhere else, the biggest thing I fear is that american consumerism and conformist attitudes will/have spread everywhere, so I won't be able to escape them. :-/

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
The whole idea is simply ridiculous. These computers are MINE and _I_ alone will have control over them. How can anyone go along with this stuff?

Enjoy your cookie cutter computers, I will be having some FUN with my computers in the mean time.

1. Because this is what many people want. They want not be able to download music and movies easily.
2. Because most Americans do not understand the meaning of FREE.
3. Because most people just do not care anymore.
4. Because large corporations are the ones that make the rules, not us.
5. Because there are idiots out there that turn their eyes away from, or do not care about our rights being eroded in the name of the almighty dollar.

We are no longer US citizens, we are but consumers.

It's the type of thing that makes ya wanna just go live in a shack in the woods and hide from all of the evil freaks that control society.

I really hope to get out of this country one day, check out other places, quite possibly settle down somewhere else, the biggest thing I fear is that american consumerism and conformist attitudes will/have spread everywhere, so I won't be able to escape them. :-/

The rest of the world hates us. See you in Canada

 

[Spyro]

1. Because this is what many people want. They want not be able to download music and movies easily.

Ehhh, explanation please?

2. Because most Americans do not understand the meaning of FREE.

Why, sure they do. Free = free as in beer.

3. Because most people just do not care anymore.

They must be educated.

4. Because large corporations are the ones that make the rules, not us.

Screw them!!!!

5. Because there are idiots out there that turn their eyes away from, or do not care about our rights being eroded in the name of the almighty dollar.

They just can't see the light

We are no longer US citizens, we are but consumers.

In truth everyone's a consumer, there has never been a difference between being a US citizen and being a consumer.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
The whole idea is simply ridiculous. These computers are MINE and _I_ alone will have control over them. How can anyone go along with this stuff?

Enjoy your cookie cutter computers, I will be having some FUN with my computers in the mean time.

1. Because this is what many people want. They want not be able to download music and movies easily.
2. Because most Americans do not understand the meaning of FREE.
3. Because most people just do not care anymore.
4. Because large corporations are the ones that make the rules, not us.
5. Because there are idiots out there that turn their eyes away from, or do not care about our rights being eroded in the name of the almighty dollar.

We are no longer US citizens, we are but consumers.

It's the type of thing that makes ya wanna just go live in a shack in the woods and hide from all of the evil freaks that control society.

I really hope to get out of this country one day, check out other places, quite possibly settle down somewhere else, the biggest thing I fear is that american consumerism and conformist attitudes will/have spread everywhere, so I won't be able to escape them. :-/

The rest of the world hates us. See you in Canada

:Q

Why is it always canada? I'll take the moon instead.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

1. Because this is what many people want. They want not be able to download music and movies easily.

Ehhh, explanation please?

If you can easily download a copy of "The Matrix 6: Even crappier than the first!" without having to hunt, decode, encode, blah blah blah and have it be of great quality, wouldnt you want to? Apparently a lot of people do. DRM can enable it easier than all of the jobless kids that keep acne fighting medicine companies in business.

2. Because most Americans do not understand the meaning of FREE.

Why, sure they do. Free = free as in beer.

Thats exactly my point. No one understands...

3. Because most people just do not care anymore.

They must be educated.

Education will not help. American children of all people have shown their reluctance towards learning anything worthwhile. The politicians are as ignorant as ever, and do they want to change for the better of America?

4. Because large corporations are the ones that make the rules, not us.

Screw them!!!!

Say it while you can.

5. Because there are idiots out there that turn their eyes away from, or do not care about our rights being eroded in the name of the almighty dollar.

They just can't see the light

They refuse to.

We are no longer US citizens, we are but consumers.

In truth everyone's a consumer, there has never been a difference between being a US citizen and being a consumer.

It used to mean something. Or atleast thats what I gathered from the history books Ive read.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
The whole idea is simply ridiculous. These computers are MINE and _I_ alone will have control over them. How can anyone go along with this stuff?

Enjoy your cookie cutter computers, I will be having some FUN with my computers in the mean time.

1. Because this is what many people want. They want not be able to download music and movies easily.
2. Because most Americans do not understand the meaning of FREE.
3. Because most people just do not care anymore.
4. Because large corporations are the ones that make the rules, not us.
5. Because there are idiots out there that turn their eyes away from, or do not care about our rights being eroded in the name of the almighty dollar.

We are no longer US citizens, we are but consumers.

It's the type of thing that makes ya wanna just go live in a shack in the woods and hide from all of the evil freaks that control society.

I really hope to get out of this country one day, check out other places, quite possibly settle down somewhere else, the biggest thing I fear is that american consumerism and conformist attitudes will/have spread everywhere, so I won't be able to escape them. :-/

The rest of the world hates us. See you in Canada

:Q

Why is it always canada? I'll take the moon instead.

They understand the difference between AES and ICBM.