Real reason MS's OSes suck

[Barnaby W. Füi]

(damn I wish that this forum software had a rolling eye emoticon . . .)

:Q

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: MGMorden

Originally posted by: jhbball
You're right, Bill Gates is an evil entitiy trying to take over the world, internet, whatever. Microsoft, hp, compaq, are all bad... or something.

hahahahahhaha!

Damn you nerds and your linux. Just quit crying, take off your clokes or whatever, put down the d & d guide for a sec, and just accept that xp is an acceptable os.

And here folks, is exactly why American society is going down the toilet. Idiots who would rather hurl around mindless generalizations and stereotypes and try to pass them off as a valid argument rather than actually look at some issues.

You're right. We all are D&D fanatics because we don't want our rights taken away. (damn I wish that this forum software had a rolling eye emoticon . . .)

:frown: :disgust:

And unfortunately, most people would rather give up some of their rights for the promise of more/better/whatever entertainment (the RIAA: just please pass the CBDTPA so everybody has to have spyware/cop chips in their system and we promise we'll give you more digital entertainment). TCPA is fine, and would be a great thing for security, if I could be in control of it on my systems. Unfortunately, MS doesn't think I can be trusted with that, so they will retain the master keys to everyone's systems (all the while trying to convince them - and I doubt that they'll have a hard time getting the sheep to follow - that this is for their better good), thus giving them immense power. TCPA with MS in control by itself might be troublesome, but not a lot different from the way things are now. TCPA with MS plus the RIAA's CBDTPA would be fatal to all free software and the open source movement in general. I guess the sheep don't care, but still, since they don't care enough to learn anything about what they're trying to argue about, why should we care enough to listen to their mindless chatter?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: jhbball
You're right, Bill Gates is an evil entitiy trying to take over the world, internet, whatever. Microsoft, hp, compaq, are all bad... or something.

hahahahahhaha!

Damn you nerds and your linux. Just quit crying, take off your clokes or whatever, put down the d & d guide for a sec, and just accept that xp is an acceptable os.

Oh wow! I did just what you said! I put down my D&D manual for just a second, took a look at XP and Im flabbergasted! When did this come out?

It still has no SSH client and no SSH server. The firewall built into it is crap (no customizability). The command line is horrid, so even if I did get around to installing SSH, it wouldnt be much good. A great deal of the technology involved is proprietary crap (much like what HP/Compaq, IBM, DEC, Sun, Apple, Packard Bell, Dell, etc all released years ago, but that was the hardware side).

I can go on and on with my problems with XP. But what does it really do to further the conversation here? Absolutely nothing. It all amounts to me whipping it out and showing it off. What does it mean for you or anyone else? Nothing, because its mine and it does you no good to pay attention to it.

Opinions are like another man's penis. Useless to me.

 

[wiin]

I'm tired of listening to people crapping about Microsoft. You don't like the OS, just stick to your linux or whatever. No one is forcing anyody to use Windows. But we have no choice you say? Of course you do. Use it or don't use it. That's very clear to me.

 

[jhbball]

Hehe, guess I pissed a few people off

Yes, I was generalizing and stereotyping (sp?) in my last post. But, then again, I also have a sense of humor. (c'mon... cloaks? we all know that's funny)

And yes, bafoons like me are definetly bringing this country down. Teasing linux lovin'/microsoft bashing internet folk will definetly will be the end-all to our nation.

Too conclude, I clearly have the largest penis.

lol

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: jhbball
Hehe, guess I pissed a few people off

Yes, I was generalizing and stereotyping (sp?) in my last post. But, then again, I also have a sense of humor.

Oh, and yes, I clearly have the largest penis.

lol

Ah! One of those.

 

[jhbball]

 

[drag]

I think D&D is kinda pointless and boring personally...

But, I can only worry about things I know. Everybody has a expertise and will focus on a specific subject, but don't think for a moment that because I am talking about the superior moral level of linux as a OS, compared with microsoft's stealing and copyrighting other people's work and then once acheiving dominance of the market seeking government legislation garrating there market for the next hundred years that Computers and Microsoft are the only things I care about!!!!

I think it is freaking amazing that even though we are in a forum dedicated to the OS's that run our computers that a person would be so f***ing dense to bitch about the fact that all us geeks do is say that there OS of choice is superior.

That's like going to a church and bitching about that all Christians talk about is Jesus and the Bible.

Maybe some people do have their heads in the sand, but some people may need to get their heads out of their asses.

 

[crisp82]

There are no real problems with Windows Os's except bugs which by nature are bound to occur. MS and there attempts at ruling over the computers that have their Os on is the problem. Everyone sits around slating the wrong thing. Yes, there are bugs with XP, and yes there are better things avaliable in other Os's, but thats the way it goes. On the whole, I, and most of the population of end users, seem to like Windows. No one can honestly stand up and say it's not good. They may not like it, but Windows is generally (2000 and up) a solid, stable OS.

Oh, and for those of you who don't like Windows or bitch about it all the time, go over to Linux (whatever distro) or another Os and be glad that you don't use Windows anymore.

Same goes for Windows users, don't knock Linux til you tried it.

 

[Spyro]

There are no real problems with Windows Os's except bugs which by nature are bound to occur. MS and there attempts at ruling over the computers that have their Os on is the problem. Everyone sits around slating the wrong thing. Yes, there are bugs with XP, and yes there are better things avaliable in other Os's, but thats the way it goes. On the whole, I, and most of the population of end users, seem to like Windows. No one can honestly stand up and say it's not good. They may not like it, but Windows is generally (2000 and up) a solid, stable OS.

I'm not even going to bother with is except to say that Microsoft's bugs in their OS are not the topic of this conversation.

because I am talking about the superior moral level of linux as a OS, compared with microsoft's stealing and copyrighting other people's work and then once acheiving dominance of the market seeking government legislation garrating there market for the next hundred years that Computers and Microsoft are the only things I care about!!!!

By the way, dude, if you think that you and "the population of end-users" like windows, then you're sadly mistaken. You can't speak for all the millions of windows users out there, can you? When I set up KDE on my linux box, most people can't even tell the difference between my system andd a windows system (granted that they don't use XP). Personally, I don't care about bugs so much as I care about the company behind the product. My windows boxes are rock solid, but then again so is my linux box. With a little work any OS can be made to run stably (for windows though, just don't mention security.) I shouldn't have to point out some of the idiotic things that Microsoft, as a company, is doing right now to secure their monopoly.

Oh, and for those of you who don't like Windows or bitch about it all the time, go over to Linux (whatever distro) or another Os and be glad that you don't use Windows anymore. Same goes for Windows users, don't knock Linux til you tried it.

I don't understand people like you, with your use it or lose it mentality, but then again I also don't understand thost who take an arguement against their OS presonally.

Insert Stupid Qoute Here

Ok, you asked for it.

No matter how good of a deal you get on computer components, the price will always drop immediately after the purchase.
-- Murphy's Computer Laws n°7

Edit: The usual

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: crisp82
There are no real problems with Windows Os's except bugs which by nature are bound to occur. MS and there attempts at ruling over the computers that have their Os on is the problem. Everyone sits around slating the wrong thing. Yes, there are bugs with XP, and yes there are better things avaliable in other Os's, but thats the way it goes. On the whole, I, and most of the population of end users, seem to like Windows. No one can honestly stand up and say it's not good. They may not like it, but Windows is generally (2000 and up) a solid, stable OS.

Blah blah blah. Most of us have admitted its much better than previous attempts. That should be good enough.

Oh, and for those of you who don't like Windows or bitch about it all the time, go over to Linux (whatever distro) or another Os and be glad that you don't use Windows anymore.

This is the same crap the ATOTers spout when someone says they dont like <insert political decision here>. "If you dont like it, get out!" instead of using your power as a consumer to try and fix things. Personally, I gave up MS at home a while ago. Wish I could do the same thing at work. But there are some people that would like to see the OS get better, and what better way than to make their grievances known? Keep your mouth shut and nothing gets fixed.

Same goes for Windows users, don't knock Linux til you tried it.

This is a good attitude though. Try it, if you dont like it but see promise, let the company know what you want changed. Dont like it and dont see promise? Forget it.

I see promise. And until I stop hearing that "<insert non-MS OS here> is useless, and everyone should be using XP" I will keep griping about what I do not, but think I should, see in Windows. I hold this philosophy with every OS I use.

 

[crisp82]

Thats a good philosophy to nave monkey boy

Chill Wizard, maybe you should read my post again. I said I like the os's, not the company, so stop with the bitching. I am fed up with people bitching about Windows OR Linux. All this Windows Fanboi's hate Linux Fanboi's etc is crap. You chose your Os and your opinon and reason are as valid as the next persons. You can bitch about the OS, not the company.

As for my post being 'off-topic', read the topic fool:

Replying to Thread: Real reason MS's OSes suck
Created On 02/26/2003 2:26 AM by drag

Surely when you talk about the MS OS's being crap, you need reasons.
So when I said that MS Os's don't suck, they just have annoying bugs. MS itself sucks.

So, in conclusion, I am pissed off with people like you who hate MS, and therefore hate their software/Os's by default, then come bitch at people like me who hate MS but like Windows.

BTW: Good Quote

 

[ProviaFan]

Another random rambling from me on this topic...

I very much despise Microsoft's business tactics, and don't really care for the lack of customizability of their OSes (in comparison to UNIX-like ones), but NT, 2000, and XP are a necessary evil in my opinion for some tasks that need to be done. Yes, I could be masochistic and inflict pain upon myself by trying to use various office packages on Linux, but the printing support for that OS just isn't good enough for my picky tastes, and I'm too lazy to try to get it set up right (ghostscript just scares the sh!t out of me, and the commercial nature of CUPS doesn't really appeal to me, either). :Q

Now, please understand that I love to use Linux and BSD, and will use them wherever I need a fast, reliable, and low cost server, programming, or number-crunching system. Maybe someday if I ever get my current PHP project done, I'll get off my lazy ass and learn C++ so I can help with fixing some of the weaker areas of Linux that exist today.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: jliechty
Another random rambling from me on this topic...

I very much despise Microsoft's business tactics, and don't really care for the lack of customizability of their OSes (in comparison to UNIX-like ones), but NT, 2000, and XP are a necessary evil in my opinion for some tasks that need to be done. Yes, I could be masochistic and inflict pain upon myself by trying to use various office packages on Linux, but the printing support for that OS just isn't good enough for my picky tastes, and I'm too lazy to try to get it set up right (ghostscript just scares the sh!t out of me, and the commercial nature of CUPS doesn't really appeal to me, either). :Q

Now, please understand that I love to use Linux and BSD, and will use them wherever I need a fast, reliable, and low cost server, programming, or number-crunching system. Maybe someday if I ever get my current PHP project done, I'll get off my lazy ass and learn C++ so I can help with fixing some of the weaker areas of Linux that exist today.

Printing problems? I've never had any problems printing in any linus distro. This has probably improved over the years, so when was the last time you used linux.

As for office apps. I don't care what any of you say. I've been using openoffice for about 8 months and I have never had any problems (those earlier versions were quite buggy though). Trust me, desktop linux certainly isn't problem free, but its generally stable, pretty neat, and it has come a long way.

If you haven't done so already you should check it out.

 

[Spyro]

Thats a good philosophy to nave monkey boy

Indeed.....

Chill Wizard, maybe you should read my post again. I said I like the os's, not the company, so stop with the bitching. I am fed up with people bitching about Windows OR Linux. All this Windows Fanboi's hate Linux Fanboi's etc is crap. You chose your Os and your opinon and reason are as valid as the next persons.

Actually, I'm not much of a linux fanboy or a microsoft evangelist. I see the values of both systems and I use them both. I dual boot so I can have an occasional game of Earth 2150, AOE, etc. As for what I said about people taking comments on their OS personally, I wasn't reffering to you I was reffering to what I've seen happen many many times, I shall assume that you were doing the same. I shall also assume that you've seen the zealots on both sides of the issue. One of the reasons that I like anandtech forums is because it is generally berefit of name-calling and other childish behaviour (or maybe I've been lucky.)

You can bitch about the OS, not the company.

I'm afraid that I don' t understand what you're trying to say here. I disagree with Microsoft's tactics in the PC area. This is what I hold against them. I express my beliefs through not indulging myself in their software. Taking your original "if you don't like it leave" arguement to its full extension, if you don't like what is being said in this thread you should leave.

As for my post being 'off-topic', read the topic fool:

Replying to Thread: Real reason MS's OSes suck
Created On 02/26/2003 2:26 AM by drag

Apparantly I not lucky any more. Didn't your mother ever tell you that it's not nice to call people names. Read the original post and the following posts. This thread wasn't about the bugs in MSs operating systems. Linux has bugs, OS X has bugs, bugs are everywhere, why make a big deal out of those.

Surely when you talk about the MS OS's being crap, you need reasons.

Note my comments on that:

By the way, dude, if you think that you and "the population of end-users" like windows, then you're sadly mistaken. You can't speak for all the millions of windows users out there, can you? When I set up KDE on my linux box, most people can't even tell the difference between my system andd a windows system (granted that they don't use XP). Personally, I don't care about bugs so much as I care about the company behind the product. My windows boxes are rock solid, but then again so is my linux box. With a little work any OS can be made to run stably (for windows though, just don't mention security.) I shouldn't have to point out some of the idiotic things that Microsoft, as a company, is doing right now to secure their monopoly.

I don't see that anywhere in the above that I refered to microsoft's operating systems as "crap". Albeit my first sentence in there is rather misleading, but I think you should have gotten my message.

So when I said that MS Os's don't suck, they just have annoying bugs. MS itself sucks.

I have been saying this......

So, in conclusion, I am pissed off with people like you who hate MS, and therefore hate their software/Os's by default, then come bitch at people like me who hate MS but like Windows.

If I hate MS and therefore hate their software, then why do I have an xp notebook and two windows 98 boxes? Why haven't I put linux on them yet? Why do I dual boot? Why do I own both "Age of Empires II" and the expansion pack? The answer is fairly obvious. While I dislike microsoft, as a company, I am still able to appreciate a good piece of software when I see it.

BTW: Good Quote

Thanks. .

You seem to have taken offense at my original post. Next time I'll be more clear when I state my ideas. It probably didn't help that I was studying for an exam, running on 5 hours of ZZZs, and in a hurry.

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: jliechty
Another random rambling from me on this topic...

I very much despise Microsoft's business tactics, and don't really care for the lack of customizability of their OSes (in comparison to UNIX-like ones), but NT, 2000, and XP are a necessary evil in my opinion for some tasks that need to be done. Yes, I could be masochistic and inflict pain upon myself by trying to use various office packages on Linux, but the printing support for that OS just isn't good enough for my picky tastes, and I'm too lazy to try to get it set up right (ghostscript just scares the sh!t out of me, and the commercial nature of CUPS doesn't really appeal to me, either). :Q

Now, please understand that I love to use Linux and BSD, and will use them wherever I need a fast, reliable, and low cost server, programming, or number-crunching system. Maybe someday if I ever get my current PHP project done, I'll get off my lazy ass and learn C++ so I can help with fixing some of the weaker areas of Linux that exist today.

Printing problems? I've never had any problems printing in any linus distro. This has probably improved over the years, so when was the last time you used linux.

As for office apps. I don't care what any of you say. I've been using openoffice for about 8 months and I have never had any problems (those earlier versions were quite buggy though). Trust me, desktop linux certainly isn't problem free, but its generally stable, pretty neat, and it has come a long way.

If you haven't done so already you should check it out.

The last time I had printing working in Linux was with Redhat about 6 months ago. The text printing was fine, but I do lots of stuff with photos, and the photo quality of my Epson Stylus Color 880 under Linux just wasn't on par with what the Windows drivers produce. As recently as last month, I tried setting up a Debian machine to print to a networked (via SMB) printer, but since I couldn't get it to work (it would print, but only a blank page with some "unable to something-i-can't-remember" text message at the top) after a week, I gave up.

Concerning office apps: I should have been more specific. KWord, OpenOffice, et. al. work fine for word processing and stuff (hey, they're more stable than MS Word!), but neither office suite is all that great in the presentation department...unless they've improved dramatically in the last few months. Actually, their lack of features and performance may be more the blame of the X Window System's limitations, but it still won't (well, wouldn't, last month when I tried) get the job done for me. :frown:

 

[Spyro]

The last time I had printing working in Linux was with Redhat about 6 months ago. The text printing was fine, but I do lots of stuff with photos, and the photo quality of my Epson Stylus Color 880 under Linux just wasn't on par with what the Windows drivers produce. As recently as last month, I tried setting up a Debian machine to print to a networked (via SMB) printer, but since I couldn't get it to work (it would print, but only a blank page with some "unable to something-i-can't-remember" text message at the top) after a week, I gave up.

Ahh, well, if photo quality is what you're talking about then I wholeheartedly agree with you. I have the exact same model of printer, and although I've kept my setup updated and it does appear that there have been patches to fix this issue, photo printing quality under linux still suxs for me.

Concerning office apps: I should have been more specific. KWord, OpenOffice, et. al. work fine for word processing and stuff (hey, they're more stable than MS Word!), but neither office suite is all that great in the presentation department...unless they've improved dramatically in the last few months. Actually, their lack of features and performance may be more the blame of the X Window System's limitations, but it still won't (well, wouldn't, last month when I tried) get the job done for me. :frown:

Agreed, I don't even bother with the presentation software that comes with kword and I shudder to think of open office.

Oh well, just give 'em another year or so..............

 

[MGMorden]

Originally posted by: jliechty

Concerning office apps: I should have been more specific. KWord, OpenOffice, et. al. work fine for word processing and stuff (hey, they're more stable than MS Word!), but neither office suite is all that great in the presentation department...unless they've improved dramatically in the last few months. Actually, their lack of features and performance may be more the blame of the X Window System's limitations, but it still won't (well, wouldn't, last month when I tried) get the job done for me. :frown:

OpenOffice's Impress has made a perfect replacement for powerpoint for the couple of presentations I do in speech class. the first few times I was kinda leary and would test it out on a real powerpoint install before saving in impress and going to a machine with powerpoint, but it's gotten to the point now that I just trust it. It's never messed up on me and is much cheaper then office .

 

[drag]

That printing stuff is a big suxor thing when it comes to unix, but now it is much better than before,

CUPS is a network protocal that allows printing over a network, or of course like X windows you can use on your own computer. I IS VERY NICE. I was able to get a old bubble jet printer to get decent black and white photos going and it provided very nice text formating for resumes. I've never been able to get nice results (ie presentable/publishable) with any windows products unless it was on some expensive printer harware and publishing software.

With the advent of OS X (which is very heavily used in the publishing industies) support CUPS natively. Many printer manufactures activly support it with drivers and resources and the print quality for many printers is superior under Linux/OS X then there windows drivers counterparts. You can even set up a RIP server for proccessing postscript stuff for high-end artsy-fartsy stuff.

 

[crisp82]

Sorry Wizard, went off on a tangent a bit . Just recieved some not-so-good news. You dual boot Windows/Linux? You mean LILO let you? What Os's?

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: crisp82
Sorry Wizard, went off on a tangent a bit . Just recieved some not-so-good news. You dual boot Windows/Linux? You mean LILO let you? What Os's?

Hey no problem .

I use LILO to switch between Mandrake 9 and Windows NT4 (soon I'll be adding NetBSD to that list). I use mandrake for pretty much everything, but I still switch to WinNT for the occasional game of age of empires . I haven't really done any online multiplayer matches, but then again I always have enough fun as it is flooding my siblings base with Paladins & Tuetonic Knights for a picture perfect ending. I also use windows nt for my games of Earth 2150 and Settlers 4. I tried playing around with winex, transgamings version of the windows emulator, but I never really got it working well, and I figured out that I could get more of my programs working using wine.

I also keep win nt because I need a way to play windows media files (video lectures). Maybe one day I'll get mplayer to work, but I'll probably have to compile it myself to get it working because mandrake 9's mplayer packages are crappy.

As for Linux and gaming support, maybe in a couple of years. By which I'm reffering to the open source (or otherwise) native linux games that are starting to show some promise but still have a while to go (freecraft, vegastrike, epiar, flight gear, etc).