RE: Immigration raids

[rudder]

So there was a concensus in this thread that pelosi was a fruitcake. Saying immigration raids were unamerican.

One of the arguments we always hear about offering amnesty is because the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do. I always argued back that they are doing jobs at wages American workers can't work at.

So here is a study that shows wages of American workers increase after immigration raids.

Article

Now I wish ICE would come around here and let American workers get back into the construction industry.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: rudder
So there was a concensus in this thread that pelosi was a fruitcake. Saying immigration raids were unamerican.

One of the arguments we always hear about offering amnesty is because the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do. I always argued back that they are doing jobs at wages American workers can't work at.

So here is a study that shows wages of American workers increase after immigration raids.

Article

Now I wish ICE would come around here and let American workers get back into the construction industry.

Interesting that you want to decrease competition in the labor market, driving up prices. I thought you guys were all about competition?

I for one find our current xenophobia to be deeply un-American. Actually now that I think about it, xenophobia is very American. Every generation has it's immigrant group that they demonize as heralding the end of the republic. Ben Franklin had his German-Americans, the 1800's had their Chinamen, we later had our Irish and our Italians, and now we have the central american brown scare.

 

[MovingTarget]

Keep 'em up! :thumbsup:

That being said, if we do not enact some meaningful immigration reform, we are just shooting ourselves in the foot. I'm no xenophobe, but we do need to make sure that those who do immigrate here are documented. Let them pay a fine and go to the back of the line for the same process as everyone else. (also, do something about the backlog of immigration applications/cases) Make them learn English. Then welcome them with open arms, but not before.

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: rudder
So there was a concensus in this thread that pelosi was a fruitcake. Saying immigration raids were unamerican.

One of the arguments we always hear about offering amnesty is because the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do. I always argued back that they are doing jobs at wages American workers can't work at.

So here is a study that shows wages of American workers increase after immigration raids.

Article

Now I wish ICE would come around here and let American workers get back into the construction industry.

Interesting that you want to decrease competition in the labor market, driving up prices. I thought you guys were all about competition?

I for one find our current xenophobia to be deeply un-American. Actually now that I think about it, xenophobia is very American. Every generation has it's immigrant group that they demonize as heralding the end of the republic. Ben Franklin had his German-Americans, the 1800's had their Chinamen, we later had our Irish and our Italians, and now we have the central american brown scare.

Canada does not have immigration problems anywhere near the scale you have, yet we have a healthy and competitive construction sector (recession taken into consideration).

So perhaps costs go up, people have to settle for somewhat smaller homes, boho go cry me a river. It's more important for people to have a decent paying job then to have cheap (and illegal) labor that takes away jobs from locals/citizens of said country so people in unrelated job sectors can have those few extra square feet of room.

And it's not protectionism, you still trade globally for raw materials (if it's cost effective), blue prints and bring in skilled people such as engineers (legal immigration) , you do not build a home in X country and ship to to another. Local companies will still compete with each other, keeping quality up and costs down.

Crying xenophobia is BS. But then again I'm not American, you guys can screw yourselves all you like.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: rudder
So there was a concensus in this thread that pelosi was a fruitcake. Saying immigration raids were unamerican.

One of the arguments we always hear about offering amnesty is because the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do. I always argued back that they are doing jobs at wages American workers can't work at.

So here is a study that shows wages of American workers increase after immigration raids.

Article

Now I wish ICE would come around here and let American workers get back into the construction industry.

Interesting that you want to decrease competition in the labor market, driving up prices. I thought you guys were all about competition?

I for one find our current xenophobia to be deeply un-American. Actually now that I think about it, xenophobia is very American. Every generation has it's immigrant group that they demonize as heralding the end of the republic. Ben Franklin had his German-Americans, the 1800's had their Chinamen, we later had our Irish and our Italians, and now we have the central american brown scare.

Canada does not have immigration problems anywhere near the scale you have, yet we have a healthy and competitive construction sector (recession taken into consideration).

So perhaps costs go up, people have to settle for somewhat smaller homes, boho go cry me a river. It's more important for people to have a decent paying job then to have cheap (and illegal) labor that takes away jobs from locals/citizens of said country so people in unrelated job sectors can have those few extra square feet of room.

And it's not protectionism, you still trade globally for raw materials (if it's cost effective), blue prints and bring in skilled people such as engineers (legal immigration) , you do not build a home in X country and ship to to another. Local companies will still compete with each other, keeping quality up and costs down.

Crying xenophobia is BS. But then again I'm not American, you guys can screw yourselves all you like.

The US currently has strong undercurrents that are extremely xenophobic, sorry if you can't see that. I don't even view what's happening in the US as a 'problem'. People are coming here to work, good for them.

And yes, it's protectionism. Sure it's just labor related protectionism, but it's that regardless. I'm not even arguing against it, just that I find it interesting when ideology collides with itself.

 

[scruffypup]

It is about more than that,....

An increase in wages, would have a small effect on overall prices of homes and buildings first of all,... America does NOT need to have this labor imported,... you cannot prove where we do,... there would be little net effect on the economy overall, some crops might be switched to other things, and we might import some crops more, other than that, some incomes would increase and less taxes would be needed,...

Having lived on a border state all of my life and seeing this firsthand, I am outraged we even let this debate continue.

Illegals have more than a small bearing on life here, there is the increased burden of infrastructure; such as, police, firefighters, roads, water, electricity,... there is an increased burden on the education system, an increase in health care costs since many use free care of emergency rooms at hospitals or state funded health insurance

There is an increase on the burden of the average taxpayer for the above mentioned infrastructure, as well as, downward pressure on wages illegals create, and the burden includes individual issues like identity theft, traffic accidents by uninsured illegals, standard of living being eroded, etc

There has been an increase in violence and crime due to illegals,... in 2007 3 of 4 phoenix police officers shot and killed were by illegals, Phoenix is now second in the world in kidnappings, Phoenix averages one home invasion per day,... sometimes with death involved, child molestations by illegals are more than reported,... but believe me there is a lot of that too,...

Extremely xenophobic??? I think you are mistaken,... sick and tired of it? yes, wanting illegals to be deported and some tougher legislation at them and employers? yes, border fence and militarize the border? yes,....

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

The US currently has strong undercurrents that are extremely xenophobic, sorry if you can't see that. I don't even view what's happening in the US as a 'problem'. People are coming here to work, good for them.

And yes, it's protectionism. Sure it's just labor related protectionism, but it's that regardless. I'm not even arguing against it, just that I find it interesting when ideology collides with itself.

No it is only "you people" that blur the distinction between illegal and legal immigration. Despite what you cry out there are no benefits to illegal immigration.

Unfortunately we cannot open up the flood gates to legal immigration or we produce more problems. I think the U.S. government can increase quotas one we start moving out of the recession. But new immigrants need to be able to be absorbed into the American workforce. Something that is not being done with illegal immigration.

There was a chicken processing plant near Shelbyville, Tennessee that was the subject of an immigration raid. There were plenty of locals and LEGAL (L-E-G-A-L) Somali immigrants that were able to then be hired. I was very glad to see that happen... and these weren't white Somalians.

The constant racist accusations from "you people" are getting ridiculous. A majority of Americans are not against immigration... polls show (with the exception of the L.A. Time poll) that a majority of Americans are against ILLEGAL (that is an IL in front of the word legal which changes the meaning completly) immigration.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: rudder
So there was a concensus in this thread that pelosi was a fruitcake. Saying immigration raids were unamerican.

One of the arguments we always hear about offering amnesty is because the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do. I always argued back that they are doing jobs at wages American workers can't work at.

So here is a study that shows wages of American workers increase after immigration raids.

Article

Now I wish ICE would come around here and let American workers get back into the construction industry.

Interesting that you want to decrease competition in the labor market, driving up prices. I thought you guys were all about competition?

I for one find our current xenophobia to be deeply un-American. Actually now that I think about it, xenophobia is very American. Every generation has it's immigrant group that they demonize as heralding the end of the republic. Ben Franklin had his German-Americans, the 1800's had their Chinamen, we later had our Irish and our Italians, and now we have the central american brown scare.

I very much agree. I think illegal immigrants should be deported on the basis that it's illegal (IMO for good reason), not on the grounds that it devalues certain parts of the labor market.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: rudder
So there was a concensus in this thread that pelosi was a fruitcake. Saying immigration raids were unamerican.

One of the arguments we always hear about offering amnesty is because the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do. I always argued back that they are doing jobs at wages American workers can't work at.

So here is a study that shows wages of American workers increase after immigration raids.

Article

Now I wish ICE would come around here and let American workers get back into the construction industry.

Interesting that you want to decrease competition in the labor market, driving up prices. I thought you guys were all about competition?

I for one find our current xenophobia to be deeply un-American. Actually now that I think about it, xenophobia is very American. Every generation has it's immigrant group that they demonize as heralding the end of the republic. Ben Franklin had his German-Americans, the 1800's had their Chinamen, we later had our Irish and our Italians, and now we have the central american brown scare.

This is the typical leftist mentality, call the law abiding people xenophobes because they want laws enforced. This is one issue that most Dem's and Republicans agree on, with the exception of our elected officials.

BTW if this country is so full of these "un-American", law abiding, xenophobes how did Barrack Hussein Obama get elected?

 

[babylon5]

America is much more integrated and accepted of foreigners than most countries in the world.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: rudder
So there was a concensus in this thread that pelosi was a fruitcake. Saying immigration raids were unamerican.

One of the arguments we always hear about offering amnesty is because the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do. I always argued back that they are doing jobs at wages American workers can't work at.

So here is a study that shows wages of American workers increase after immigration raids.

Article

Now I wish ICE would come around here and let American workers get back into the construction industry.

Interesting that you want to decrease competition in the labor market, driving up prices. I thought you guys were all about competition?

I for one find our current xenophobia to be deeply un-American. Actually now that I think about it, xenophobia is very American. Every generation has it's immigrant group that they demonize as heralding the end of the republic. Ben Franklin had his German-Americans, the 1800's had their Chinamen, we later had our Irish and our Italians, and now we have the central american brown scare.

This is the typical leftist mentality, call the law abiding people xenophobes because they want laws enforced. This is one issue that most Dem's and Republicans agree on, with the exception of our elected officials.

BTW if this country is so full of these "un-American", law abiding, xenophobes how did Barrack Hussein Obama get elected?

Thanks for the stupid generalizations. People in general do not support laws simply because it is the law, they do it because it enforces an interest of theirs. If they suddenly outlawed making retarded trolls on the internet, would you support it because it was the law? Of course not, because then you couldn't post.

US immigration law has been used as a vehicle to enforce xenophobia for a long, long time. A simple look into its history would show you that. Then again, you're Budmantom.

 

[First]

They'll all be on a legal path to citizenship within 22 months.

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: rudder
So there was a concensus in this thread that pelosi was a fruitcake. Saying immigration raids were unamerican.

One of the arguments we always hear about offering amnesty is because the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do. I always argued back that they are doing jobs at wages American workers can't work at.

So here is a study that shows wages of American workers increase after immigration raids.

Article

Now I wish ICE would come around here and let American workers get back into the construction industry.

Interesting that you want to decrease competition in the labor market, driving up prices. I thought you guys were all about competition?

I for one find our current xenophobia to be deeply un-American. Actually now that I think about it, xenophobia is very American. Every generation has it's immigrant group that they demonize as heralding the end of the republic. Ben Franklin had his German-Americans, the 1800's had their Chinamen, we later had our Irish and our Italians, and now we have the central american brown scare.

Would it not be in everyone?s (whole worlds) best interest to drive wages and benefits up instead of driving US, Canada and European wages down to third world level?

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: rudder
So there was a concensus in this thread that pelosi was a fruitcake. Saying immigration raids were unamerican.

One of the arguments we always hear about offering amnesty is because the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do. I always argued back that they are doing jobs at wages American workers can't work at.

So here is a study that shows wages of American workers increase after immigration raids.

Article

Now I wish ICE would come around here and let American workers get back into the construction industry.

Interesting that you want to decrease competition in the labor market, driving up prices. I thought you guys were all about competition?

I for one find our current xenophobia to be deeply un-American. Actually now that I think about it, xenophobia is very American. Every generation has it's immigrant group that they demonize as heralding the end of the republic. Ben Franklin had his German-Americans, the 1800's had their Chinamen, we later had our Irish and our Italians, and now we have the central american brown scare.

This is the typical leftist mentality, call the law abiding people xenophobes because they want laws enforced. This is one issue that most Dem's and Republicans agree on, with the exception of our elected officials.

BTW if this country is so full of these "un-American", law abiding, xenophobes how did Barrack Hussein Obama get elected?

Thanks for the stupid generalizations. People in general do not support laws simply because it is the law, they do it because it enforces an interest of theirs. If they suddenly outlawed making retarded trolls on the internet, would you support it because it was the law? Of course not, because then you couldn't post.

US immigration law has been used as a vehicle to enforce xenophobia for a long, long time. A simple look into its history would show you that. Then again, you're Budmantom.

As usual you have far left wing rhetoric that's out of touch of mainstream America, you have always been anti-God, anti-America, blame America first policy's and anyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: rudder
So there was a concensus in this thread that pelosi was a fruitcake. Saying immigration raids were unamerican.

One of the arguments we always hear about offering amnesty is because the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do. I always argued back that they are doing jobs at wages American workers can't work at.

So here is a study that shows wages of American workers increase after immigration raids.

Article

Now I wish ICE would come around here and let American workers get back into the construction industry.

Interesting that you want to decrease competition in the labor market, driving up prices. I thought you guys were all about competition?

I for one find our current xenophobia to be deeply un-American. Actually now that I think about it, xenophobia is very American. Every generation has it's immigrant group that they demonize as heralding the end of the republic. Ben Franklin had his German-Americans, the 1800's had their Chinamen, we later had our Irish and our Italians, and now we have the central american brown scare.

Wait, which side are you on? Aren't leftists the ones who want a "living wage," health benefits, legal protections, and union rights, for all workers? Sounds to me like you are the one who wants to continue to exploit these laborers in our factories.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: rudder
So there was a concensus in this thread that pelosi was a fruitcake. Saying immigration raids were unamerican.

One of the arguments we always hear about offering amnesty is because the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do. I always argued back that they are doing jobs at wages American workers can't work at.

So here is a study that shows wages of American workers increase after immigration raids.

Article

Now I wish ICE would come around here and let American workers get back into the construction industry.

Interesting that you want to decrease competition in the labor market, driving up prices. I thought you guys were all about competition?

I for one find our current xenophobia to be deeply un-American. Actually now that I think about it, xenophobia is very American. Every generation has it's immigrant group that they demonize as heralding the end of the republic. Ben Franklin had his German-Americans, the 1800's had their Chinamen, we later had our Irish and our Italians, and now we have the central american brown scare.

Wait, which side are you on? Aren't leftists the ones who want a "living wage," health benefits, legal protections, and union rights, for all workers? Sounds to me like you are the one who wants to continue to exploit these laborers in our factories.

There are a lot of people like Eskimospy who like having the brown people scrape out a meager existence in this country so that certain goods and services remain cheap. Besides, where would these people be without a permanent underclass to exploit politically as well?

 

[Socio]

"At the four facilities for which we were able to obtain information, wages and bonuses rose on average 8 percent with the departure of illegal immigrants."

There is your economic stimulus right there baby!!!

 

[cubeless]

it's the classic liberal stance... they're all for helping the downtrodden except they don't want to have them accounted for so that the real cost can be determined... they point to numbers that say the illegals are paying taxes, but when they are under counted and then over utilize resources like hospital er's and schools the real cost for them isn't apportioned properly... then they blame our healthcare system and pass more underfunded mandates to make everything better... look at cali's budget... when u say 'everybody gets a chicken' based on the official headcount you get into real trouble when the real headcount is 25% larger...

and as to the taxes being paid for/by them, it seems that every dem politicians has an illegal maid any more by the amount of trouble they are having getting appointments done... not to mention that it seems to be the classic perpetuation of crime: have an illegal maid, cheat on taxes that would have paid for their load on society...

the libs should be all for eliminating the illegal population so that they can have more union members, a broader political base, and to bring justice to these poor, abused peoples... but as usual, their walk and their talk are worlds apart...

 

[GeezerMan]

link

Do we have room for all of these people that want amnesty?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: rudder
So there was a concensus in this thread that pelosi was a fruitcake. Saying immigration raids were unamerican.

One of the arguments we always hear about offering amnesty is because the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do. I always argued back that they are doing jobs at wages American workers can't work at.

So here is a study that shows wages of American workers increase after immigration raids.

Article

Now I wish ICE would come around here and let American workers get back into the construction industry.

Interesting that you want to decrease competition in the labor market, driving up prices. I thought you guys were all about competition?

I for one find our current xenophobia to be deeply un-American. Actually now that I think about it, xenophobia is very American. Every generation has it's immigrant group that they demonize as heralding the end of the republic. Ben Franklin had his German-Americans, the 1800's had their Chinamen, we later had our Irish and our Italians, and now we have the central american brown scare.

This is the typical leftist mentality, call the law abiding people xenophobes because they want laws enforced. This is one issue that most Dem's and Republicans agree on, with the exception of our elected officials.

BTW if this country is so full of these "un-American", law abiding, xenophobes how did Barrack Hussein Obama get elected?

Thanks for the stupid generalizations. People in general do not support laws simply because it is the law, they do it because it enforces an interest of theirs. If they suddenly outlawed making retarded trolls on the internet, would you support it because it was the law? Of course not, because then you couldn't post.

US immigration law has been used as a vehicle to enforce xenophobia for a long, long time. A simple look into its history would show you that. Then again, you're Budmantom.

So...by NOT opening the border and letting just anyone through is...xenophobic? Really?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Interesting that you want to decrease competition in the labor market, driving up prices. I thought you guys were all about competition?

I for one find our current xenophobia to be deeply un-American. Actually now that I think about it, xenophobia is very American. Every generation has it's immigrant group that they demonize as heralding the end of the republic. Ben Franklin had his German-Americans, the 1800's had their Chinamen, we later had our Irish and our Italians, and now we have the central american brown scare.

Wait, which side are you on? Aren't leftists the ones who want a "living wage," health benefits, legal protections, and union rights, for all workers? Sounds to me like you are the one who wants to continue to exploit these laborers in our factories.

There are a lot of people like Eskimospy who like having the brown people scrape out a meager existence in this country so that certain goods and services remain cheap. Besides, where would these people be without a permanent underclass to exploit politically as well?

Maybe you two political geniuses should sit down for a second and see if you can puzzle out how someone can be against draconian border enforcement, but not be for exploitation of laborers in our factories.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Thanks for the stupid generalizations. People in general do not support laws simply because it is the law, they do it because it enforces an interest of theirs. If they suddenly outlawed making retarded trolls on the internet, would you support it because it was the law? Of course not, because then you couldn't post.

US immigration law has been used as a vehicle to enforce xenophobia for a long, long time. A simple look into its history would show you that. Then again, you're Budmantom.

So...by NOT opening the border and letting just anyone through is...xenophobic? Really?

You're creating a straw man here. I didn't say I wanted to open the border and let 'just anyone through', that is an absurd exaggeration of my position. My main point in this thread is just that we are continuing the proud American tradition of fearing whatever immigrant group is most prevalent in our times. Someday we'll learn.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Interesting that you want to decrease competition in the labor market, driving up prices. I thought you guys were all about competition?

I for one find our current xenophobia to be deeply un-American. Actually now that I think about it, xenophobia is very American. Every generation has it's immigrant group that they demonize as heralding the end of the republic. Ben Franklin had his German-Americans, the 1800's had their Chinamen, we later had our Irish and our Italians, and now we have the central american brown scare.

Wait, which side are you on? Aren't leftists the ones who want a "living wage," health benefits, legal protections, and union rights, for all workers? Sounds to me like you are the one who wants to continue to exploit these laborers in our factories.

There are a lot of people like Eskimospy who like having the brown people scrape out a meager existence in this country so that certain goods and services remain cheap. Besides, where would these people be without a permanent underclass to exploit politically as well?

Maybe you two political geniuses should sit down for a second and see if you can puzzle out how someone can be against draconian border enforcement, but not be for exploitation of laborers in our factories.

Maybe you should puzzle out how people want our laws enforced, and think its unwise to let just anyone into our country? Ive asked in other threads and got no reponse, maybe you can answer. What part of our current road to citizenship should be bypassed for our group of illegals, to get them legal? Or do you think they should go through the same hoops?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Maybe you should puzzle out how people want our laws enforced, and think its unwise to let just anyone into our country? Ive asked in other threads and got no reponse, maybe you can answer. What part of our current road to citizenship should be bypassed for our group of illegals, to get them legal? Or do you think they should go through the same hoops?

Of course they shouldn't go through the same hoops. Our ridiculous immigration system and the hoops it requires people to go through is what contributed to this problem to begin with. If people could enter the US legally more easily there would be much less incentive to do so illegally, and we would have the benefit of better information on those who were coming in, we could refocus border resources on catching the truly undesirable people, etc.

I'm not personally familiar enough with the particulars of immigration law to tell you what exactly should be changed however, I'd have to read more about it.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

US immigration law has been used as a vehicle to enforce xenophobia for a long, long time.

Immigration law allows us to control who can and can't immigrate into our country. I fail to see how anybody (but a fool) can think that allowing anybody and everybody in our country is a good idea? We need to control our boarders, it's just that plain and simple.