RE: Immigration raids

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Budmantom

I have a bit of first hand knowledge, how about you.. do you know what you are talking about?

Sure you do. I've lived right next to the busiest border crossing on the entire planet for a decade or so now, I've had quite a few classes on immigration, and I have a close friend who works for US Customs.

And Palin can see Russia from her deck. So what?

Apparently I shouldn't have mentioned to blackangst earlier that I don't feel qualified to speak on exactly how we should achieve comprehensive immigration reform, because people on here have taken that to mean that I was saying I don't know anything about immigration.

Until we stop the millions of illegals flowing into this country I don't feel we can or should engage in any discussion on immigration reform.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Blackangst, you're going to act like you won't engage me until I know more about immigration, but you don't even know that more than 50% of all illegal immigration comes from visa overstays? Seems like we both have a lot of reading to do.

Thanks for dodging my questions. Its not that I didnt know, its that depending on the source, the numbers are different. For example, per Homeland security, their numbers are 25-50%. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, its 50-60%. I simply stated based on my reading, 50% seems high. I never said I wasnt aware of the visa overstay problem.

Now can you answer MY questions? Or are you going to continue to spout how we need to streamline and reform our current system without knowing what exactly needs streamlining? This is what bothers me about the "We need reform" crowd. They often say we need a faster/easier track to citizenship, yet Ive never heard what process currently in place they would forgo in doing so. I would really like to know.

 

[piasabird]

The people at the Social Security Administration wanted to release a list of Social Security Numbers where there was a Name Mismatch. However, this was blocked and not allowed. We have the ability to look for these people braking the law, some law enforcement people in some states just choose to be Accessories after the Fact.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
Until we stop the millions of illegals flowing into this country I don't feel we can or should engage in any discussion on immigration reform.

The issues are part and parcel, changing one will affect the other. The issue of immigration has to be addressed as a whole; a comprehensive plan needs to be in place before attempting to change. Anything else will result in utter failure.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
Until we stop the millions of illegals flowing into this country I don't feel we can or should engage in any discussion on immigration reform.

The issues are part and parcel, changing one will affect the other. The issue of immigration has to be addressed as a whole; a comprehensive plan needs to be in place before attempting to change. Anything else will result in utter failure.

No, the issue of ILLEGAL immigration needs to be addressed.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Budmantom

I have a bit of first hand knowledge, how about you.. do you know what you are talking about?

Sure you do. I've lived right next to the busiest border crossing on the entire planet for a decade or so now, I've had quite a few classes on immigration, and I have a close friend who works for US Customs.

And Palin can see Russia from her deck. So what?

Apparently I shouldn't have mentioned to blackangst earlier that I don't feel qualified to speak on exactly how we should achieve comprehensive immigration reform, because people on here have taken that to mean that I was saying I don't know anything about immigration.

Until we stop the millions of illegals flowing into this country I don't feel we can or should engage in any discussion on immigration reform.

Huh? That idiot Budmantom was talking about his firsthand experience and I was letting him know that it was neither unique nor particularly useful.

You do realize that immigration reform would mitigate the flow of illegal immigrants into our country, right? We will never be able to stop people from illegally immigrating to our country, as where there is a will, there's a way.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Blackangst, you're going to act like you won't engage me until I know more about immigration, but you don't even know that more than 50% of all illegal immigration comes from visa overstays? Seems like we both have a lot of reading to do.

Thanks for dodging my questions. Its not that I didnt know, its that depending on the source, the numbers are different. For example, per Homeland security, their numbers are 25-50%. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, its 50-60%. I simply stated based on my reading, 50% seems high. I never said I wasnt aware of the visa overstay problem.

Now can you answer MY questions? Or are you going to continue to spout how we need to streamline and reform our current system without knowing what exactly needs streamlining? This is what bothers me about the "We need reform" crowd. They often say we need a faster/easier track to citizenship, yet Ive never heard what process currently in place they would forgo in doing so. I would really like to know.

I find it unlikely based on what you wrote earlier that you were aware of the proportion of visa overstays, but I guess it doesn't matter.

As a general concept for increasing legal immigration, I guess a good start would be to massively (MASSIVELY) expand the program for granting work visas to people, and do it for people of all types. If someone wants to come here and bust their ass, let them. Currently most of these people would simply be flat out denied, and for no particularly good reason.

I wonder who our grandkids will target as the next Immigrant Horde that must be kept out at all costs?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
Until we stop the millions of illegals flowing into this country I don't feel we can or should engage in any discussion on immigration reform.

The issues are part and parcel, changing one will affect the other. The issue of immigration has to be addressed as a whole; a comprehensive plan needs to be in place before attempting to change. Anything else will result in utter failure.

No, the issue of ILLEGAL immigration needs to be addressed.

I agree. However you have to address the legal immigration mess at the same time. We want hard working people here regardless of the birthplace and should make every effort to let them live here. Why should it take five to ten years and tens of thousands of dollars to move here? We have welfare babies born here who never contribute anything to society and they do it for free. Why keep the productive out intentionally?

Once a realistic immigration policy is in place, I'm 100% behind kicking out everyone here illegally. At that point there will be no excuse.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Blackangst, you're going to act like you won't engage me until I know more about immigration, but you don't even know that more than 50% of all illegal immigration comes from visa overstays? Seems like we both have a lot of reading to do.

Thanks for dodging my questions. Its not that I didnt know, its that depending on the source, the numbers are different. For example, per Homeland security, their numbers are 25-50%. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, its 50-60%. I simply stated based on my reading, 50% seems high. I never said I wasnt aware of the visa overstay problem.

Now can you answer MY questions? Or are you going to continue to spout how we need to streamline and reform our current system without knowing what exactly needs streamlining? This is what bothers me about the "We need reform" crowd. They often say we need a faster/easier track to citizenship, yet Ive never heard what process currently in place they would forgo in doing so. I would really like to know.

I find it unlikely based on what you wrote earlier that you were aware of the proportion of visa overstays, but I guess it doesn't matter.

As a general concept for increasing legal immigration, I guess a good start would be to massively (MASSIVELY) expand the program for granting work visas to people, and do it for people of all types. If someone wants to come here and bust their ass, let them. Currently most of these people would simply be flat out denied, and for no particularly good reason.

I wonder who our grandkids will target as the next Immigrant Horde that must be kept out at all costs?

Do you understand you cant just get a work visa, come to the US, and look for work? One must be sponsored to get a visa. In this case, there is nothing stopping ANY company from obtaining an H2 visa for someone. The burden lies on employers, and the programs are already in place. So what could the federal government possibly do to "make" employers sponsor H2 or H1B visa applicants?

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
Until we stop the millions of illegals flowing into this country I don't feel we can or should engage in any discussion on immigration reform.

The issues are part and parcel, changing one will affect the other. The issue of immigration has to be addressed as a whole; a comprehensive plan needs to be in place before attempting to change. Anything else will result in utter failure.

Sorry, but I don't see how stopping the flow of illegals (and god knows what else) across our southern border can hurt anything. That should be our first priority.

If we decide to grant amnesty BEFORE we have control of our border all we are doing is encouraging a giant flood of illegals.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Budmantom

I have a bit of first hand knowledge, how about you.. do you know what you are talking about?

Sure you do. I've lived right next to the busiest border crossing on the entire planet for a decade or so now, I've had quite a few classes on immigration, and I have a close friend who works for US Customs.

The more you speak the more I see you for the smug, uneducated, belittling, little man you really are and you have put it all in one thread for one and all to see. You are quick to call people xenophobes, protectionists, stupid and trolls yet you have yet to engage in a debate but are the first to start with the personal attacks while at the same time asking for people to be banned.

It's people like you who bring this forum down.

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
Until we stop the millions of illegals flowing into this country I don't feel we can or should engage in any discussion on immigration reform.

The issues are part and parcel, changing one will affect the other. The issue of immigration has to be addressed as a whole; a comprehensive plan needs to be in place before attempting to change. Anything else will result in utter failure.

No, the issue of ILLEGAL immigration needs to be addressed.

I agree. However you have to address the legal immigration mess at the same time. We want hard working people here regardless of the birthplace and should make every effort to let them live here. Why should it take five to ten years and tens of thousands of dollars to move here? We have welfare babies born here who never contribute anything to society and they do it for free. Why keep the productive out intentionally?

Once a realistic immigration policy is in place, I'm 100% behind kicking out everyone here illegally. At that point there will be no excuse.

It doesn?t not matter how hard working they are, they take jobs from hard working Americans, depress wages and benefits and cause a two prong increase on our welfare system.
We do not have a shortage of low wage workers in this country, as seen in the OP as soon as they were removed; people who should have been doing those jobs got them and there was an increase in wages to boot!

?This will not happen, with a Democrat president and controlled congress as amnesty is inevitable.?

However the very best thing we could do for the country is seal the border and boot everyone here illegally.

After that is done we need to control the flow of low wage immigrant workers, the importation of low wage workers should only and always be the last resort.

We should only let in who should be let in and only for as long as we need them. Put in place strict immigration policies to track temporary/seasonal workers we let in. Too many get petitioned and accepted for farm work and never show up, they instead go take unauthorized jobs, like construction, warehousing etc. and go off the grid. As a deterrent if they violate their visa they should be deported with a life time no re-entry ban on their record.

Let all the companies that were dependant on illegal workers die off and the ones that remain that can pay a competitive wage hire from within before importing workers. It would be culling the heard so to speak; If you?re in business and cannot afford to pay a living wage and keep it profitable you probably have no business being in business.

This would put many US workers back to work, increase tax revenue and take a huge load off of welfare and other government services place on it by both the illegal?s and previously out of work Americans.

That would be the right thing to for the US, that would be real economic stimulus!

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Blackangst, you're going to act like you won't engage me until I know more about immigration, but you don't even know that more than 50% of all illegal immigration comes from visa overstays? Seems like we both have a lot of reading to do.

Thanks for dodging my questions. Its not that I didnt know, its that depending on the source, the numbers are different. For example, per Homeland security, their numbers are 25-50%. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, its 50-60%. I simply stated based on my reading, 50% seems high. I never said I wasnt aware of the visa overstay problem.

Now can you answer MY questions? Or are you going to continue to spout how we need to streamline and reform our current system without knowing what exactly needs streamlining? This is what bothers me about the "We need reform" crowd. They often say we need a faster/easier track to citizenship, yet Ive never heard what process currently in place they would forgo in doing so. I would really like to know.

I find it unlikely based on what you wrote earlier that you were aware of the proportion of visa overstays, but I guess it doesn't matter.

As a general concept for increasing legal immigration, I guess a good start would be to massively (MASSIVELY) expand the program for granting work visas to people, and do it for people of all types. If someone wants to come here and bust their ass, let them. Currently most of these people would simply be flat out denied, and for no particularly good reason.

I wonder who our grandkids will target as the next Immigrant Horde that must be kept out at all costs?

Do you understand you cant just get a work visa, come to the US, and look for work? One must be sponsored to get a visa. In this case, there is nothing stopping ANY company from obtaining an H2 visa for someone. The burden lies on employers, and the programs are already in place. So what could the federal government possibly do to "make" employers sponsor H2 or H1B visa applicants?

Right, and the programs aren't working because people aren't using them, yet they are still trying to use immigrant labor. Shouldn't that answer your question for you?

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Blackangst, you're going to act like you won't engage me until I know more about immigration, but you don't even know that more than 50% of all illegal immigration comes from visa overstays? Seems like we both have a lot of reading to do.

Thanks for dodging my questions. Its not that I didnt know, its that depending on the source, the numbers are different. For example, per Homeland security, their numbers are 25-50%. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, its 50-60%. I simply stated based on my reading, 50% seems high. I never said I wasnt aware of the visa overstay problem.

Now can you answer MY questions? Or are you going to continue to spout how we need to streamline and reform our current system without knowing what exactly needs streamlining? This is what bothers me about the "We need reform" crowd. They often say we need a faster/easier track to citizenship, yet Ive never heard what process currently in place they would forgo in doing so. I would really like to know.

I find it unlikely based on what you wrote earlier that you were aware of the proportion of visa overstays, but I guess it doesn't matter.

As a general concept for increasing legal immigration, I guess a good start would be to massively (MASSIVELY) expand the program for granting work visas to people, and do it for people of all types. If someone wants to come here and bust their ass, let them. Currently most of these people would simply be flat out denied, and for no particularly good reason.

I wonder who our grandkids will target as the next Immigrant Horde that must be kept out at all costs?

Do you understand you cant just get a work visa, come to the US, and look for work? One must be sponsored to get a visa. In this case, there is nothing stopping ANY company from obtaining an H2 visa for someone. The burden lies on employers, and the programs are already in place. So what could the federal government possibly do to "make" employers sponsor H2 or H1B visa applicants?

Right, and the programs aren't working because people aren't using them, yet they are still trying to use immigrant labor. Shouldn't that answer your question for you?

That the only thing some employers care about is how cheap they can get their labor.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Budmantom

I have a bit of first hand knowledge, how about you.. do you know what you are talking about?

Sure you do. I've lived right next to the busiest border crossing on the entire planet for a decade or so now, I've had quite a few classes on immigration, and I have a close friend who works for US Customs.

The more you speak the more I see you for the smug, uneducated, belittling, little man you really are and you have put it all in one thread for one and all to see. You are quick to call people xenophobes, protectionists, stupid and trolls yet you have yet to engage in a debate but are the first to start with the personal attacks while at the same time asking for people to be banned.

It's people like you who bring this forum down.

That's awfully ironic coming from you, considering this might be the longest post you've ever written on here, and even this one is a personal attack/troll. I generally put a lot of thought into what I post, and I frequently go out of my way to find sources to cite for my beliefs. When was the last time you did that? I've engaged in debate on this issue many, many times in the past. If you're so interested in my views on the subject, the search button is your friend.

I definitely think you should be banned, because you contribute nothing and you cause a lot of annoying/boring conversation to happen. You're a completely worthless poster except as an object lesson for how not to behave. I call people xenophobic because that's how they behave. I call you stupid and a troll because that's how you behave.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Budmantom

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Budmantom

I have a bit of first hand knowledge, how about you.. do you know what you are talking about?

Sure you do. I've lived right next to the busiest border crossing on the entire planet for a decade or so now, I've had quite a few classes on immigration, and I have a close friend who works for US Customs.

The more you speak the more I see you for the smug, uneducated, belittling, little man you really are and you have put it all in one thread for one and all to see. You are quick to call people xenophobes, protectionists, stupid and trolls yet you have yet to engage in a debate but are the first to start with the personal attacks while at the same time asking for people to be banned.

It's people like you who bring this forum down.

That's awfully ironic coming from you, considering this might be the longest post you've ever written on here, and even this one is a personal attack/troll. I generally put a lot of thought into what I post, and I frequently go out of my way to find sources to cite for my beliefs. When was the last time you did that? I've engaged in debate on this issue many, many times in the past. If you're so interested in my views on the subject, the search button is your friend.

I definitely think you should be banned, because you contribute nothing and you cause a lot of annoying/boring conversation to happen. You're a completely worthless poster except as an object lesson for how not to behave. I call people xenophobic because that's how they behave. I call you stupid and a troll because that's how you behave.

yap yap yap... we all know you think you are great and stuff... I think what you are missing is the fact that you don't realize you aren't looking at the whole picture or reality when you come into these threads flapping your gums about racists and xenophobes. Yes, there are some that are that way but for people like you to instantly label those who want the laws enforced as racist or xenophobes is intellectually lazy at best.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

yap yap yap... we all know you think you are great and stuff... I think what you are missing is the fact that you don't realize you aren't looking at the whole picture or reality when you come into these threads flapping your gums about racists and xenophobes. Yes, there are some that are that way but for people like you to instantly label those who want the laws enforced as racist or xenophobes is intellectually lazy at best.

Hey look, it's CAD. I'm so glad you've come to provide your deep insight into this matter. I'm sure that this thread won't devolve into some pile of shit due to your involvement either.

I've never stated that people were xenophobes for wanting the law to be enforced, but speaking of intellectual laziness it sure makes it easier to argue against me if you pretend I did, huh?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

yap yap yap... we all know you think you are great and stuff... I think what you are missing is the fact that you don't realize you aren't looking at the whole picture or reality when you come into these threads flapping your gums about racists and xenophobes. Yes, there are some that are that way but for people like you to instantly label those who want the laws enforced as racist or xenophobes is intellectually lazy at best.

Hey look, it's CAD. I'm so glad you've come to provide your deep insight into this matter. I'm sure that this thread won't devolve into some pile of shit due to your involvement either.

I've never stated that people were xenophobes for wanting the law to be enforced, but speaking of intellectual laziness it sure makes it easier to argue against me if you pretend I did, huh?

You've already turned it into a pile of shit. And yes, you did suggest that. The OP was about ICE raids (IE: ENFORCING THE LAW) and you were the second poster. You went off on your typical rant about "xenophobia". Try to backpedal if you wish, but we all see through your BS.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

yap yap yap... we all know you think you are great and stuff... I think what you are missing is the fact that you don't realize you aren't looking at the whole picture or reality when you come into these threads flapping your gums about racists and xenophobes. Yes, there are some that are that way but for people like you to instantly label those who want the laws enforced as racist or xenophobes is intellectually lazy at best.

Hey look, it's CAD. I'm so glad you've come to provide your deep insight into this matter. I'm sure that this thread won't devolve into some pile of shit due to your involvement either.

I've never stated that people were xenophobes for wanting the law to be enforced, but speaking of intellectual laziness it sure makes it easier to argue against me if you pretend I did, huh?

You've already turned it into a pile of shit. And yes, you did suggest that. The OP was about ICE raids (IE: ENFORCING THE LAW) and you were the second poster. You went off on your typical rant about "xenophobia". Try to backpedal if you wish, but we all see through your BS.

My comments were in relation to the OP in its entirety and to the view it represents. People are not xenophobes for wanting the law to be enforced, they are xenophobes for wanting current immigration law to stay how it is or to get harsher. The OP clearly wants that to be the case. Why am I even explaining this to you? You're CAD. Your ego is bruised, and so you're trying to pick a fight.

Either that, or the auto correct on my computer typed all that in for me. You know how pesky those things can be.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Socio
It doesn?t not matter how hard working they are, they take jobs from hard working Americans, depress wages and benefits and cause a two prong increase on our welfare system.
We do not have a shortage of low wage workers in this country, as seen in the OP as soon as they were removed; people who should have been doing those jobs got them and there was an increase in wages to boot!

?This will not happen, with a Democrat president and controlled congress as amnesty is inevitable.?

However the very best thing we could do for the country is seal the border and boot everyone here illegally.

After that is done we need to control the flow of low wage immigrant workers, the importation of low wage workers should only and always be the last resort.

We should only let in who should be let in and only for as long as we need them. Put in place strict immigration policies to track temporary/seasonal workers we let in. Too many get petitioned and accepted for farm work and never show up, they instead go take unauthorized jobs, like construction, warehousing etc. and go off the grid. As a deterrent if they violate their visa they should be deported with a life time no re-entry ban on their record.

Let all the companies that were dependant on illegal workers die off and the ones that remain that can pay a competitive wage hire from within before importing workers. It would be culling the heard so to speak; If you?re in business and cannot afford to pay a living wage and keep it profitable you probably have no business being in business.

This would put many US workers back to work, increase tax revenue and take a huge load off of welfare and other government services place on it by both the illegal?s and previously out of work Americans.

That would be the right thing to for the US, that would be real economic stimulus!

How is immigration of low wage workers any worse than the outsourcing of, well, everything to China and India?

We can either import workers or export jobs. The free market will find the lowest wages regardless of where they are.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

yap yap yap... we all know you think you are great and stuff... I think what you are missing is the fact that you don't realize you aren't looking at the whole picture or reality when you come into these threads flapping your gums about racists and xenophobes. Yes, there are some that are that way but for people like you to instantly label those who want the laws enforced as racist or xenophobes is intellectually lazy at best.

Hey look, it's CAD. I'm so glad you've come to provide your deep insight into this matter. I'm sure that this thread won't devolve into some pile of shit due to your involvement either.

I've never stated that people were xenophobes for wanting the law to be enforced, but speaking of intellectual laziness it sure makes it easier to argue against me if you pretend I did, huh?

You've already turned it into a pile of shit. And yes, you did suggest that. The OP was about ICE raids (IE: ENFORCING THE LAW) and you were the second poster. You went off on your typical rant about "xenophobia". Try to backpedal if you wish, but we all see through your BS.

My comments were in relation to the OP in its entirety and to the view it represents. People are not xenophobes for wanting the law to be enforced, they are xenophobes for wanting current immigration law to stay how it is or to get harsher. The OP clearly wants that to be the case. Why am I even explaining this to you? You're CAD. Your ego is bruised, and so you're trying to pick a fight.

Either that, or the auto correct on my computer typed all that in for me. You know how pesky those things can be.

Aww.... looks like someone is getting a bit sensitive. A sensitive troll? whodda thunk it...

Again, current law would work if it was enforced but since it isn't, many push for even stricter law to bring things in line with where they should be if original law was enforced. That doesn't make one a xenophobe. Only a liberal trolls like you want to suggest such things.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Aww.... looks like someone is getting a bit sensitive. A sensitive troll? whodda thunk it...

Again, current law would work if it was enforced but since it isn't, many push for even stricter law to bring things in line with where they should be if original law was enforced. That doesn't make one a xenophobe. Only a liberal trolls like you want to suggest such things.

Huh? I was just making fun of you for your hilarious attempt to avoid being wrong in the past, and how it is evidence for how worthless it is to actually try and debate something with you. (If someone can't admit they didn't know something as inconsequential as a word, how are they going to admit to something meaningful? Not to mention you seem to be unaware of the definition of what a troll is.)

I find the current US statutory posture towards immigration to be xenophobic, therefore wanting that level of statutory restriction to remain or to get harsher I would view as even more xenophobic.

This isn't rocket science.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Blackangst, you're going to act like you won't engage me until I know more about immigration, but you don't even know that more than 50% of all illegal immigration comes from visa overstays? Seems like we both have a lot of reading to do.

Thanks for dodging my questions. Its not that I didnt know, its that depending on the source, the numbers are different. For example, per Homeland security, their numbers are 25-50%. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, its 50-60%. I simply stated based on my reading, 50% seems high. I never said I wasnt aware of the visa overstay problem.

Now can you answer MY questions? Or are you going to continue to spout how we need to streamline and reform our current system without knowing what exactly needs streamlining? This is what bothers me about the "We need reform" crowd. They often say we need a faster/easier track to citizenship, yet Ive never heard what process currently in place they would forgo in doing so. I would really like to know.

I find it unlikely based on what you wrote earlier that you were aware of the proportion of visa overstays, but I guess it doesn't matter.

As a general concept for increasing legal immigration, I guess a good start would be to massively (MASSIVELY) expand the program for granting work visas to people, and do it for people of all types. If someone wants to come here and bust their ass, let them. Currently most of these people would simply be flat out denied, and for no particularly good reason.

I wonder who our grandkids will target as the next Immigrant Horde that must be kept out at all costs?

Do you understand you cant just get a work visa, come to the US, and look for work? One must be sponsored to get a visa. In this case, there is nothing stopping ANY company from obtaining an H2 visa for someone. The burden lies on employers, and the programs are already in place. So what could the federal government possibly do to "make" employers sponsor H2 or H1B visa applicants?

Right, and the programs aren't working because people aren't using them, yet they are still trying to use immigrant labor. Shouldn't that answer your question for you?

You have absolutely ZERO evidence of your claim. Youre grasping at straws.

Every once in awhile we (as posters) get posting in a thread and get way over our head. Ive done it, we've all done it. This is one of those times for you. You have absoluetly no knowledge of how immigration works, therefore all you can do is say it needs reform. Fine. Its said. But you keep burying yourself. Dont get me wrong man. Youre one of the few I sometimes disagree with that I can converse with on subjects we disagree on. But its time to bow out.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

You have absolutely ZERO evidence of your claim. Youre grasping at straws.

Every once in awhile we (as posters) get posting in a thread and get way over our head. Ive done it, we've all done it. This is one of those times for you. You have absoluetly no knowledge of how immigration works, therefore all you can do is say it needs reform. Fine. Its said. But you keep burying yourself. Dont get me wrong man. Youre one of the few I sometimes disagree with that I can converse with on subjects we disagree on. But its time to bow out.

What are you talking about? This stuff isn't rocket science, and since I originally posted I've read quite a bit on statutory immigration reform. I feel completely comfortable debating you and anyone else on the subject. EDIT: Oh, and how can you say I have no evidence for my claim? We have about 30,000 H2 visa workers in the US annually and how many illegal immigrants? Yeap, they aren't being used.

We have a visa system that people can use to bring workers into the country legally. We have lots of people coming into the country illegally for the sole purpose of working. We have employers who want workers, and employees who want to work, along with a method for matching those two up. In a huge percentage of cases it is not being used.

So what's the reason for this? I'm just going to take a wild guess and say it's because it's a lot easier and cheaper to hire illegal workers. The government can do a lot to bring the costs of legal and illegal workers better in line. They can streamline the application process, they can decrease regulatory requirements on compensation, housing, etc. They can levy greater penalties on employers for violating the law, and they can dedicate more resources to better enforcing it. I'm not against enforcing the law, I'm just telling you guys that our immigration law right now is an obvious failure.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Aww.... looks like someone is getting a bit sensitive. A sensitive troll? whodda thunk it...

Again, current law would work if it was enforced but since it isn't, many push for even stricter law to bring things in line with where they should be if original law was enforced. That doesn't make one a xenophobe. Only a liberal trolls like you want to suggest such things.

Huh? I was just making fun of you for your hilarious attempt to avoid being wrong in the past, and how it is evidence for how worthless it is to actually try and debate something with you. (If someone can't admit they didn't know something as inconsequential as a word, how are they going to admit to something meaningful? Not to mention you seem to be unaware of the definition of what a troll is.)

I find the current US statutory posture towards immigration to be xenophobic, therefore wanting that level of statutory restriction to remain or to get harsher I would view as even more xenophobic.

This isn't rocket science.

Exactly, it's worthless to try to have a debate with you - especially on this topic since it's clear you are stuck in your little bubble world and won't even dare look to look at the reality of the situation.