Discussion RDNA 5 / UDNA (CDNA Next) speculation

[marees]

I'm sure they use pytorch. Just not sure if its used in production. OpenAI uses alot of python in their stack, but Triton is a python based language.

While not talking about their operational software stack in details I found this OpenAI account interesting;

https://calv.info/openai-reflections

edit: from my understanding pytorch has multiple backends as firstclass citizens nowadays. Not just CUDA.

I am deeply skeptical of anything not c++ working in high perf scenarios such as training

But I am old school that way 😜

 

[RnR_au]

I am deeply skeptical of anything not c++ working in high perf scenarios such as training

But I am old school that way 😜

Hehe - python is just being used as a scripting language calling highly optimised 'AI primitives' coded in C/C++.

There is a thing called MegaKernel - you describe the computation graph for your LLM in python code and then it compiles a single gpu kernel that is highly optimised in terms of memory accesses. Very interesting stuff. Very fast and no C++

Compiling LLMs into a MegaKernel: A Path to Low-Latency Inference

TL;DR: We developed a compiler that automatically transforms LLM inference into a single megakernel — a fused GPU kernel that performs…

zhihaojia.medium.com

A smidge offtopic though.... looking forward to the 128GB RDNA 5 AI cards!!

 

[marees]

There is a thing called MegaKernel - you describe the computation graph for your LLM in python code and then it compiles a single gpu kernel that is highly optimised in terms of memory accesses. Very interesting stuff. Very fast and no C++

Compiling LLMs into a MegaKernel: A Path to Low-Latency Inference

TL;DR: We developed a compiler that automatically transforms LLM inference into a single megakernel — a fused GPU kernel that performs…

zhihaojia.medium.com

This stuff seems to be specific on particular generation of gpu architecture

Doesn't seem as generic as c++, cuda or pytorch — but maybe works for massive hardware deployments

Usually it is the meta/Facebook guys who come up with generic software that works on all hardwares

 

[jpiniero]

Won't happen... AI is here to stay

At some point Wall Street will realize consuming the entire world's electricity supply to make dank memes isn't going to be profitable.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

At some point Wall Street will realize consuming the entire world's electricity supply to make dank memes isn't going to be profitable.

-And frankly the memes aren't even that dank

 

[Vikv1918]

Yeah like Xbox hardware plans haven't changed ever since they acquired Zenimax.

Is it just me or does Xbox seem not concerned at all about their hardware future? Nextbox looks expensive and theres no Series S equivalent and the handheld is unlikely to succeed. Gamepass is stagnating. Maybe theyre betting on cloud but Geforce Now has existed for years and doesnt seem to be displacing on-prem. Why are they doing everything other than the good old fashioned "sell cheap hardware and have lots of exclusives"?

 

[marees]

Is it just me or does Xbox seem not concerned at all about their hardware future? Nextbox looks expensive and theres no Series S equivalent and the handheld is unlikely to succeed. Gamepass is stagnating. Maybe theyre betting on cloud but Geforce Now has existed for years and doesnt seem to be displacing on-prem. Why are they doing everything other than the good old fashioned "sell cheap hardware and have lots of exclusives"?

Handheld is literally the series s

Series X will have steam so probably unsubsidized. I expect 5080 performance for 5080 price

The concept of exclusives has gone away

 

[jpiniero]

Why are they doing everything other than the good old fashioned "sell cheap hardware

Because they can't.

 

[Win2012R2]

Gamepass is stagnating.

It won't be after new 50% price increase

Because they can't.

They can, but don't wanna to.

 

[Vikv1918]

Handheld is literally the series s

Series X will have steam so probably unsubsidized. I expect 5080 performance for 5080 price

The concept of exclusives has gone away

Nintendo has exclusives and Switch is gonna be the best selling console ever soon. At 5080 price and no exclusives, its not gonna sell well.

I dont think Handheldbox is a true Series S alternative. Like for example, the Series S has 35% of the GPU power and 90% of the CPU power of the Series X. If Nextbox is 5080 GPU level, then the Handheldbox should be 5060 level which is extremely unlikely. And I doubt it will have 90% of Nextbox CPU performance either. I think Handheld will remain niche like Steamdeck.

 

[marees]

I dont think Handheldbox is a true Series S alternative. Like for example, the Series S has 35% of the GPU power and 90% of the CPU power of the Series X. If Nextbox is 5080 GPU level, then the Handheldbox should be 5060 level which is extremely unlikely. And I doubt it will have 90% of Nextbox CPU performance either. I think Handheld will remain niche like Steamdeck.

Here is my calculation

Nextbox is literally the 9070xt successor (10070xt). So it should be equal to 5080

Next box is AT2 has 72 CUs?

Handheld is the z3 extreme AT4 = 24 CUs

So handheld is 1/3rd of the series X (Magnus). That makes the handheld (medusa premium) the new series S

The kicker could be that both magnus & mdsp share the same CPU chiplet

 

[adroc_thurston]

Is it just me or does Xbox seem not concerned at all about their hardware future?

no.

Nextbox looks expensive

Looks normal.

theres no Series S

Hell yeah Series S was a horrible idea.

Handheld is literally the series s

There is no handheld.

Series X will have steam so probably unsubsidized

who.
what.

 

[adroc_thurston]

So it should be equal to 5080

how the hell it would be that given a 15% perf delta as is?

 

[adroc_thurston]

The kicker could be that both magnus & mdsp share the same CPU chiplet

they don't.

So handheld is 1/3rd of the series X (Magnus). That makes the handheld (medusa premium)

jeebus stop talking stuff.

 

[marees]

There is no handheld.

I am referring to third party. Z3 extreme. Not a monolithic first party stuff

 

[adroc_thurston]

I am referring to third party. Z3 extreme. Not a monolithic first party stuff

well that's worthless garbage with chtonic SRPs.

 

[gdansk]

Whatever hardware Xbox is planning to buy or not buy it's probably mainly AMD. And the contracts are most likely structured that AMD cannot lose money...

And while AT0 is AMD's own venture it seems like a promising part for any company interested in streaming games.

 

[jpiniero]

They can, but don't wanna to.

The days of consoles having big subsidies are over. And it's worse for MS because of the tariffs.

MS is getting out of consoles but they are trying to transition people over to PC instead of XBox gamers going to Sony or Nintendo. That's what the Next XBox is about.

 

[adroc_thurston]

The days of consoles having big subsidies are over.

they never had them.

And it's worse for MS because of the tariffs.

US isn't the world.

MS is getting out of consoles

They are not.

That's what the Next XBox is about.

nextbox is just a nextbox.
it's a normal ass xbox.

 

[jpiniero]

US isn't the world.

US is XBox's biggest market by far.

 

[gdansk]

US is XBox's biggest market by far.

Yeah and we can all predict record low sales this year. They can scream all they want that it's tariffs - which do contribute - but obviously they actually don't care if more Xbox sell. The attach rate must be so damn low they can't even justify subsidizing more sales.

Tragic, but I guess that's a side effect of not having games people want to (or have to) buy on Xbox.

 

[luro]

15% perf delta

Oof

 

[adroc_thurston]

Oof

?