Ray Tracing’s A Game Changer ,Call of Duty: Modern Warfare , and RTX review for "Control" ,Minecraft NEW Ray Tracing RTX Mode Hands-On And Tested

Page 8 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
3,178
1,513
136
I am not the one picturing, I am quoting the people you quoted.
But go on keep on denying, while ray tracing keeps being integrated into every major engine under the sun and most AAA games. Maybe keep yourself confined to PS3 graphics while at it.
The only person denying something is you. You are trying to tell everybody that they are blind, or stupid and they do not know what they see on screenshots comparing side-by-side Ray Tracing on and off, and gameplay comparing side-by-side Ray Tracing on and off.

Secondly, you have complpetely ignored the main part of that post. Why? Because you perfectly know its factually correct, but you are affraid to admit it.

But go on, and fight with everybody, who is absolutely not impressed with RTX, and Ray Tracing currently. It at least will be entertaining, and comical.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mopetar

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
98,402
1,384
126
I'm moving a block of posts by the usual suspects arguing in circles about ray tracing out of a thread that wasn't about ray tracing into this thread that is about ray tracing. Y'all really need to get control of yourselves.

AT Moderator ElFenix
 
  • Like
Reactions: Glo.

TestKing123

Senior member
Sep 9, 2007
202
12
81
I'm playing Control right now, with full RTX effects. Anyone who says there isn't much a difference with it on vs off must be blind or biased.

I remember people said the same about Metro Exodus RTX effects, didn't look that different from off based on screenshots. But it made a HUGE difference visually when playing the game, especially with the snow and how striking it looked with RTX on, it became one of the best showcases for RTX.

Control is the same way, it needs to be played to appreciate the full effects. Unfortunately, Control isn't anywhere near as engrossing as Metro Exodus, so I find myself playing through just because I bought it, but it's not a game I would replay. Metro I will gladly replay again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Muhammed

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
6,873
288
126
I'm playing Control right now, with full RTX effects. Anyone who says there isn't much a difference with it on vs off must be blind or biased.

I remember people said the same about Metro Exodus RTX effects, didn't look that different from off based on screenshots. But it made a HUGE difference visually when playing the game, especially with the snow and how striking it looked with RTX on, it became one of the best showcases for RTX.

Control is the same way, it needs to be played to appreciate the full effects. Unfortunately, Control isn't anywhere near as engrossing as Metro Exodus, so I find myself playing through just because I bought it, but it's not a game I would replay. Metro I will gladly replay again.
Which GPU and resolution are you using?
 
Mar 11, 2004
19,095
1,681
126
I'm playing Control right now, with full RTX effects. Anyone who says there isn't much a difference with it on vs off must be blind or biased.

I remember people said the same about Metro Exodus RTX effects, didn't look that different from off based on screenshots. But it made a HUGE difference visually when playing the game, especially with the snow and how striking it looked with RTX on, it became one of the best showcases for RTX.

Control is the same way, it needs to be played to appreciate the full effects. Unfortunately, Control isn't anywhere near as engrossing as Metro Exodus, so I find myself playing through just because I bought it, but it's not a game I would replay. Metro I will gladly replay again.
There's another issue at hand though that you're ignoring and why your argument is missing the point entirely. Its possible to offer most (if not all) of that visual quality without the massive performance hit of ray-tracing via other means, and a lot of people will take higher and smoother framerates where gameplay is concerned.

Also, Metro for instance appears that they intentionally made the non-RTX version worse (I recall scenes, like one that I believe was on a train) where the non-RTX was ridiculously dark (for no good reason, I've never seen other games pull shenanigans like that and not take massive flak for it, like the complaints about Doom 3 where there was huge disparity between their lighting modes to the point that the lower ones were terrible while the highest ones were overblown to try and make them seem more impressive), while the RTX version was brighter even in the supposed same level of light (which had absolutely nothing to do with ray-tracing but rather was messing with like the gamma levels between the two modes or something so that the non-ray traced would seem much worse than it should have). We've seen other instances where the non-ray-traced versions are worse than they would have been (there was one where a developer was trying to say how easy ray-tracing made things and supposedly how much better, but then their comparison showed a scene with barely any effects and maybe even simpler textures and models next to a ray-traced scene which featured higher quality stuff beyond the ray-tracing, which is a ridiculously nonsensical way of comparing things), seemingly in order to make the ray-tracing appear much better.

Battlefield used different textures for higher levels of ray-tracing as well. That has nothing to do with ray-tracing yet I saw some sites deliberately saying that ray-tracing makes the game look so much better (and mentioned how it made small details on things appear more apparent, because they didn't even bother to notice that they had swapped in different textures that was actually adding those details and was nothing to do with ray-tracing).
 

BenSkywalker

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,044
40
91
I don't own control or battlefield but your comments about metro are seriously misinformed.

Your insinuation that they made scenes darker intentionally and it had nothing to do with ray tracing is just plain ignorant. Metro uses ray tracing for global illumination, the level of light is determined by ray tracing. I suppose developers could have spent thousands of man hours going frame by frame through every asset and building specialized local light sources in every location to keep luminosity consistent but failure to do that is light years removed from intentionally crippling anything.

When you make comments that insane the rest of your arguments just becomes noise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Muhammed

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
4,303
326
126
I don't own control or battlefield but your comments about metro are seriously misinformed.

Your insinuation that they made scenes darker intentionally and it had nothing to do with ray tracing is just plain ignorant. Metro uses ray tracing for global illumination, the level of light is determined by ray tracing. I suppose developers could have spent thousands of man hours going frame by frame through every asset and building specialized local light sources in every location to keep luminosity consistent but failure to do that is light years removed from intentionally crippling anything.

When you make comments that insane the rest of your arguments just becomes noise.
Thats not how it work. Developers don't do anything frame by frame.

We will most likely never know if they purposely made the non-RT version look worse, but it would fit in line with what nVidia has done in the past when they pay companies to use new tech. We already went through all of this with GameWorks and PhysX.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Krteq

BenSkywalker

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,044
40
91
Framing of the shot i.e.from every possible view frustum, my apologies, assuming understanding of underlying tech is a mistake I shouldn't make on these forums.

As for the tin foil hat bs, offer some proof. Those rumors were started by AMD's compensated viral marketers, a bunch of utter morons too stupid to think their way out of bed in the morning that were fed talking points they didn't understand.

If I say AMD paid Gearbox not to use ray tracing so they wouldn't get embarrassed in yet another AAA game it would likely be just as true as the idiocy of a nVidia conspiracy to bribe devs to make AMD look worse.

Quit with sweeping insults of users here.
This is now your 4th infraction for this same
behavior in the last 2 weeks.

You know we do not allow personal insults in
the tech areas, and it needs to stop NOW.

AT Mod Usandthem
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: Muhammed

nurturedhate

Golden Member
Aug 27, 2011
1,602
417
136
Framing of the shot i.e.from every possible view frustum, my apologies, assuming understanding of underlying tech is a mistake I shouldn't make on these forums.

As for the tin foil hat bs, offer some proof. Those rumors were started by AMD's compensated viral marketers, a bunch of utter morons too stupid to think their way out of bed in the morning that were fed talking points they didn't understand.

If I say AMD paid Gearbox not to use ray tracing so they wouldn't get embarrassed in yet another AAA game it would likely be just as true as the idiocy of a nVidia conspiracy to bribe devs to make AMD look worse.
Insulting this forum's posters? Check!
Secret AMD Deep State? Check!
Both sides are bad so buy Nvidia? Check!

I think we can get the lights now.
 

Spjut

Senior member
Apr 9, 2011
840
44
91
Gamers shouldn't be required to understand the underlying tech in order to be impressed. A good feature/features speak for itself.
I've even seen PC gamers using console exclusive Red Dead Redemption 2 to question why dedicated raytracing hardware suddenly is needed for what's considered good lighting in games.

Except from Nvidia's own material though, I don't believe there's any intentional downgrade going on. Just like it has been in the past, I think it's more a case of the games being optimized for the consoles and then they use Nvidia Gameworks to get expensive but easy improvements on the high end hardware.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
13,024
1,874
126
Greas 5 has been released and I have just read the Techpowerup review.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/gears-5-benchmark-test-performance-analysis/



Looking at the ingame screenshots, I couldnt but compare them to the ones from Techpowerups Control review
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/control-benchmark-test-performance-nvidia-rtx/



Personally I find Gears 5 graphics looking way better than those found on Control using RayTracing.
And not only that but even a $150-$200 graphics card can have 60fps at 1080p Ultra.



 

TestKing123

Senior member
Sep 9, 2007
202
12
81
Greas 5 has been released and I have just read the Techpowerup review.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/gears-5-benchmark-test-performance-analysis/



Looking at the ingame screenshots, I couldnt but compare them to the ones from Techpowerups Control review
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/control-benchmark-test-performance-nvidia-rtx/



Personally I find Gears 5 graphics looking way better than those found on Control using RayTracing.
And not only that but even a $150-$200 graphics card can have 60fps at 1080p Ultra.

I have game pass but haven't tried Gears 5 yet. But that first screenshot looks more like artistic style than anything technical. It would be like saying Doom 3 or Dead Space screenshots look better than Control. But if you look at it from a purely technical standpoint, the Gears 5 screenshot doesn't have accurate lighting and shadows, which you can see by the stairs and left/right of it. From a purely artistic standpoint it does look good. That being said, this scene would probably be greatly enhanced if ray tracing was used in some way. Control does suffer from the fact that the designers didn't make it look artistically good and relied more on tech. That also being said, Control's best RTX feature is the full and partial reflections on windows and pretty much every surface, something which Gears 5 lacks completely.

I'd love to play a dark, atmospheric horror game that features ray tracing. I know Doom 2020 will have it, but I wouldn't classify as dark, atmospheric horror.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Muhammed

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
4,303
326
126
I have game pass but haven't tried Gears 5 yet. But that first screenshot looks more like artistic style than anything technical. It would be like saying Doom 3 or Dead Space screenshots look better than Control. But if you look at it from a purely technical standpoint, the Gears 5 screenshot doesn't have accurate lighting and shadows, which you can see by the stairs and left/right of it. From a purely artistic standpoint it does look good. That being said, this scene would probably be greatly enhanced if ray tracing was used in some way. Control does suffer from the fact that the designers didn't make it look artistically good and relied more on tech. That also being said, Control's best RTX feature is the full and partial reflections on windows and pretty much every surface, something which Gears 5 lacks completely.

I'd love to play a dark, atmospheric horror game that features ray tracing. I know Doom 2020 will have it, but I wouldn't classify as dark, atmospheric horror.
I am not picking out anything wrong with the lighting in the gears 5 shot with the stairs. The game is still using dynamic lighting. The flood light up there is lighting the objects in the area.

But outside of visuals, Control's biggest issue is that it runs horribly, even with RT off. Gears 5 runs extremely well on even 3 year old cards. Control just seems really poorly optimized. Do we know what engine it is using?
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
4,303
326
126
Remedy Northlight Engine
Oh, thats right. So nothing to compare performance too. I was curious if other games using this engine perform well or not. Quantum Break had a lot of performance issues, but I am unsure as to how much the engine has changed since it came out.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
3,178
1,513
136
Gears 5:





Control:




Im sorry, but I cannot escape the feeling that Gears 5 looks way better than Control, despite using good ol' rasterization, without Ray Tracing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: guachi

nurturedhate

Golden Member
Aug 27, 2011
1,602
417
136
Gears 5:





Control:




Im sorry, but I cannot escape the feeling that Gears 5 looks way better than Control, despite using good ol' rasterization, without Ray Tracing.
I'm with you on RT atm but what you are comparing there is aesthetics. The Gears 5 pics are more vibrant while Control appears washed out. Both are artistic design decisions and not constraints of underlying tech.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
4,303
326
126
Control is certainly washed out looking. But it also looks very flat. Like there is zero bump mapping in the game. As if everything is just a flat shape with a texture, giving it a dated look.
 

Dribble

Golden Member
Aug 9, 2005
1,724
286
126
I'm with you on RT atm but what you are comparing there is aesthetics. The Gears 5 pics are more vibrant while Control appears washed out. Both are artistic design decisions and not constraints of underlying tech.
The same people were complaining about how ray tracing was too shiny a page or two back, now we have control that looks less shiny then ray tracing its the other way around. Tbh I don't think they really care how it looks, it's just a way to continue the mostly pointless argument.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Muhammed

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
3,178
1,513
136
The same people were complaining about how ray tracing was too shiny a page or two back, now we have control that looks less shiny then ray tracing its the other way around. Tbh I don't think they really care how it looks, it's just a way to continue the mostly pointless argument.
You are answering the post that directly answer mine. And I would be happy if you will point out, where did In my posts complained that RT is too shiny, or too bland, if you write a post in such manner here.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
3,178
1,513
136
I'm with you on RT atm but what you are comparing there is aesthetics. The Gears 5 pics are more vibrant while Control appears washed out. Both are artistic design decisions and not constraints of underlying tech.
Im not talking about aesthetics. If we are talking about the colours, then Gears 5 is running circles around Control. Im talking about Graphics fidelity as a whole.

The details. Models. Image quality. And lastly - the colours and vibrancy of the image. All of this adds up to much, much better graphics, that Ray Tracing cannot mitigate.
 

nurturedhate

Golden Member
Aug 27, 2011
1,602
417
136
Im not talking about aesthetics. If we are talking about the colours, then Gears 5 is running circles around Control. Im talking about Graphics fidelity as a whole.

The details. Models. Image quality. And lastly - the colours and vibrancy of the image. All of this adds up to much, much better graphics, that Ray Tracing cannot mitigate.
Glo, "The details. Models. Image quality. And lastly - the colours and vibrancy of the image" that's aesthetics. Whether my in game characters are stick figures or multi-billion voxel representations of actual people it's still an artistic decision. This line though "All of this adds up to much, much better graphics, that Ray Tracing cannot mitigate." we agree on this though I would add caveats and rendering in real time and it's value as of today.
 

Stuka87

Diamond Member
Dec 10, 2010
4,303
326
126
The same people were complaining about how ray tracing was too shiny a page or two back, now we have control that looks less shiny then ray tracing its the other way around. Tbh I don't think they really care how it looks, it's just a way to continue the mostly pointless argument.
When people mentioned 'too shiny' they meant reflective. Not a piece of metal that had some shine to it (such as the gears photos), but the uber polished floors that looked like mirrors that some RT games are doing. When you make surfaces that should not be reflective into surfaces that are reflective, it looks out of place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: guachi

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
13,024
1,874
126
Glo, "The details. Models. Image quality. And lastly - the colours and vibrancy of the image" that's aesthetics. Whether my in game characters are stick figures or multi-billion voxel representations of actual people it's still an artistic decision. This line though "All of this adds up to much, much better graphics, that Ray Tracing cannot mitigate." we agree on this though I would add caveats and rendering in real time and it's value as of today.
I believe the majority here would like to have the best detailed models with ultra high 4K Textures with best image quality and colors PLUS RayTracing for closer to real life images AND real representation of reflections. Give us all those in a package on a PC game that will actually be worth it to spend $1000-1300 for a Desktop dGPU and nobody here will have any negative thing to say.

I choose not to loose Model details with lower textures and less light sources on a game because the current hardware is unable to compute all those PLUS RayTracing.

I prefer this without RayTracing



Than this with RayTracing



Give me the Model and world Texture details from Gears 5 and ADD the RayTracing for those that would like to take their dGPUs and systems to their knees to create the best image quality possible and then I will spend more for the Hardware. Right now those RTX games doesnt make me want to spend more for new hardware, especially $1000-1300 for a desktop dGPU.
 

nurturedhate

Golden Member
Aug 27, 2011
1,602
417
136
Is there an option to turn the film grain off in Control? If so anyone w/ the game want to post pic?
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY