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Rape victim is coveted status - George Wills

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nehalem256 said:
If your wife started giving you a blowjob while you were asleep would you consider your wife a rapist?
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If we are to be honest, I can understand the argument that doing this to a man is not the same as doing this to a woman. With sex, a woman's lack of consent rightly carries more weight than a man's.
 
Atreus21 said:
If we are to be honest, I can understand the argument that doing this to a man is not the same as doing this to a woman. With sex, a woman's lack of consent rightly carries more weight than a man's.
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To me it has nothing to do with that. In this case the person said no before. If I had told my girlfriend that I didn't want to have sex and then I woke up to her going against my express wishes I absolutely can see how someone would consider that some sort of sexual assault.
 
eskimospy said:
To me it has nothing to do with that. In this case the person said no before. If I had told my girlfriend that I didn't want to have sex and then I woke up to her going against my express wishes I absolutely can see how someone would consider that some sort of sexual assault.
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Well, from a strictly practical point of view, since sex is less risky for men (who cannot get pregnant), violating a woman's consent is a greater violation.

Secondly, men have more overt power to resist. Though your girlfriend might've gone against your express wishes, you most likely can remove her by force. In general, women probably cannot easily rebuff a man in a contest of physical strength.
 
Atreus21 said:
Agreed, but I still can't call your example rape. Rape has to have some element of violent, abusive force, or at least some overt deception (as in a date-rape drug).
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No. Rape is sexual penetration without consent.


Furthermore, marriage has typically carried some sexual obligations on both parties.
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This is completely false. One does not give up control of their own body when entering into a marriage.
 
eskimospy said:
To me it has nothing to do with that. In this case the person said no before.
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I contest the male was not fully awake. That this "no" clearly did not register due to being in an impaired state. and that it would have helped to assert any sort of rejection later.
 
Atreus21 said:
Furthermore, marriage has typically carried some sexual obligations on both parties.
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... and society has thoroughly rejected that notion. If someone does not consent you move on and find someone who will....

You really did just defend sex without consent (rape), didn't you. Damn man.
 
I think the people trying to defend the Swarthmore college incident are lumping all rape cases into the same batch. The law provides for differing levels of rape based on numerous factors. There are different types of rape the same as murder, yet nobody is rushing to the defense of involuntary manslaughter perps saying, "well they didn't plan it or have malice aforethought, they aren't murderers. Somebody is dead, and in these cases, a girl is violated.
 
eskimospy said:
To me it has nothing to do with that. In this case the person said no before. If I had told my girlfriend that I didn't want to have sex and then I woke up to her going against my express wishes I absolutely can see how someone would consider that some sort of sexual assault.
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Yet you still have problems calling it rape...:hmm:
 
momeNt said:
I think the people trying to defend the Swarthmore college incident are lumping all rape cases into the same batch. The law provides for differing levels of rape based on numerous factors. There are different types of rape the same as murder, yet nobody is rushing to the defense of involuntary manslaughter perps saying, "well they didn't plan it or have malice aforethought, they aren't murderers. Somebody is dead, and in these cases, a girl is violated.
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My problem is with the presumption of guilt on men who are accused of rape. If tomorrow a complete stranger accused me out of thin air of raping her, first and foremost my marriage would by done. Overnight. Second, I'd almost certainly lose my job. Then, if the people George Will mentions have their way, the onus of proof would be not on the accuser to prove I raped her, but on me to prove I didn't.

The point is that the power to essentially destroy my life lies with an unscrupulous woman's desire to say three words or not.
 
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eskimospy said:
I like how you left out "and said she didn't want to have sex with you".

I am 0% shocked at your response to this thread, btw.
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I am sure about a dozen people were ready to post that 😛

eskimospy said:
No one who has ever actually had sex with a willing partner would think that if someone had said no to you before and then lay there motionless while you undressed them and had sex with them that such a thing implied they wanted it to happen.

From this thread, I am increasingly unsure that you've ever had sex with a willing partner.
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His hand never so says no



George Will has been been a hack for a LONG time. Remember him in the 90s? Guy was a mouthpiece for the deregulation sects and was a card carrying member of the trickle down your leg society.
 
Atreus21 said:
He called it rape.
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No he said:"I absolutely can see how someone would consider that some sort of sexual assault."

If he meant rape why would he instead say "some sort of sexual assault"?

Also note that he didn't even say that he personally would consider it sexual assault. Just that someone could.
 
nehalem256 said:
No he said:"I absolutely can see how someone would consider that some sort of sexual assault."

If he meant rape why would he instead say "some sort of sexual assault"?

Also note that he didn't even say that he personally would consider it sexual assault. Just that someone could.
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C'mon. Don't split hairs. He called MrPickens' example rape, then used "sexual assault" to describe the same situation with the genders reversed. Does anyone seriously draw distinctions between the two?
 
Atreus21 said:
C'mon. Don't split hairs. He called MrPickens' example rape, then used "sexual assault" to describe the same situation with the genders reversed. Does anyone seriously draw distinctions between the two?
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Sexual assault can be anything from pinching a girl's bottom to a full on gange rape.

I very much believe that he used the term sexual assault on purpose instead of rape. Because any dude who claimed that his gf raped him because she started giving him a blow job while he was still sleeping would be endlessly mocked by his friends.
 
Atreus21 said:
My problem is with the presumption of guilt on men who are accused of rape. If tomorrow a complete stranger accused me out of thin air of raping her, first and foremost my marriage would by done. Overnight. Second, I'd almost certainly lose my job.
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This sounds like more of an issue of trust with your spouse and employer.

I know that both of mine would give me the benefit of the doubt, barring concrete proof.

The point is that the power to essentially destroy my life lies with an unscrupulous woman's desire to say three words or not.
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I can agree with this issue, which is why i support very harsh punishment to false reporting of sexual assault (or any crime, for that matter)
 
Atreus21 said:
Agreed, but I still can't call your example rape. Rape has to have some element of violent, abusive force, or at least some overt deception (as in a date-rape drug).

Furthermore, marriage has typically carried some sexual obligations on both parties.
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Wow, are you Todd Akin posting here?

I hope you realize how you are 100% totally wrong with everything you just said. Wow. So are wives property, to do with as you please?
 
And now a Creationist has weighed in on the rape issue.

Link

“You have to start asking questions: Well, if evolution is true, and it’s just all about the male propagating their DNA, we had to ask hard questions, like, well, is rape wrong?” Isaacs says to a stunned host.
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I'm betting this guy gets hired by Fox or the GOP real soon to start publicizing this.....if you believe in evolution, you support rape. Well, according to this idiot at least.

There isn't a big enough "rolls eyes" icon for that level of BS.
 
GarfieldtheCat said:
And now a Creationist has weighed in on the rape issue.

Link



I'm betting this guy gets hired by Fox or the GOP real soon to start publicizing this.....if you believe in evolution, you support rape. Well, according to this idiot at least.

There isn't a big enough "rolls eyes" icon for that level of BS.
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Yea, that's a silly perspective, because we also evolved into having social structures where mating is not purely violence and domination like other animals. Even then not all animals mate that way.
 
George Will knows that he can only collect a paycheck if people notice what he says. For Right Wing pundits, 90 % of their traditional audience is teetering on the edge of sanity and old age. If Will wants to keep their attention, he has to follow the example of Hannity, Limbaugh and Coulter, say something shocking and stupid and the money rolls in. All it costs them is their integrity.
 
How long is "no" good for in the world of you misogynist ghouls? 1 minute?, 5 minutes?, maybe 10 minutes?. Oh yes, the privileged rape victim. Maybe they would just be happy with a prize, lets say maybe a new toaster or a nice "I was raped" tee shirt instead of actually expecting that their attacker face the consequences.

Just because conservative women benefit from rape (according to some conservatives) does not mean that all women benefit.
 
VRAMdemon said:
How long is "no" good for in the world of you misogynist ghouls? 1 minute?, 5 minutes?, maybe 10 minutes?. Oh yes, the privileged rape victim. Maybe they would just be happy with a prize, lets say maybe a new toaster or a nice "I was raped" tee shirt instead of actually expecting that their attacker face the consequences.
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Funny all of your lefty friends are afraid to answer that question.

nehalem256 said:
What if he started undressing her when they woke in the morning? What about the next night? Exactly how long is one "no" good for when the girl otherwise appears to be acting willing?
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