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Rape victim is coveted status - George Wills

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alzan said:
Since it was her place and her bed the guy should have either slept on the couch or floor or better yet left.
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When he ended up falling asleep on her bed, she changed into pajamas and climbed in next to him.
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Maybe she should have told him to do so instead of changing into her pajamas and jumping into bed with him?

But oh no. That would require women to have actual agency.
 
eskimospy said:
Interesting. So if I have my wallet sitting on the table. You ask me if you can take it. I say "no". If you take it later and I don't forcibly stop you, by your logic this means I consented to your theft.
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Depends if you invite me to bed with your wallet.

As for whether you want to treat violent rape differently than acquaintance rape, that's not what's under discussion here.
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Then why is that story being discussed at all?
 
eskimospy said:
Interesting. So if I have my wallet sitting on the table. You ask me if you can take it. I say "no". If you take it later and I don't forcibly stop you, by your logic this means I consented to your theft.
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To me, yes.

If I picked up your wallet a second time. You see me taking bills out of it and placing into my wallet, and you just sit there and look at me funny but say nothing and do nothing and let me go on my way, I'd say you consented to it.

I'd expect you to call the cops for theft. That second, not 6 weeks later (after the pregnancy test came back positive and needed to ask Daddy for abortion money... Ooppps!)
 
brandonb said:
To me, yes.

If I picked up your wallet a second time. You see me taking bills out of it and placing into my wallet, and you just sit there and look at me funny but say nothing and do nothing and let me go on my way, I'd say you consented to it.

I'd expect you to call the cops for theft. That second, not 6 weeks later (after the pregnancy test came back positive and needed to ask Daddy for abortion money... Ooppps!)
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Then you'd be going to jail! Wheee!
 
Not to mention, you cannot compare theft of property to being invited to a intimate situation.
 
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eskimospy said:
Interesting. So if I have my wallet sitting on the table. You ask me if you can take it. I say "no". If you take it later and I don't forcibly stop you, by your logic this means I consented to your theft.
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Bad analogy.

Its more like your wallet is on the table. Your friend asks if he can have $20 to order pizza. You then "basically" tell him no. 10 minutes later he says he is really hungry and asks again while moving toward your wallet on the table and your grunt and shrug your shoulders. He then takes out the $20 and orders pizza, which you and him then enjoy together.

Six weeks later you call the police and claim your friend robbed you. What do you think the police would say?
 
Honestly, there are lots of times when a girl will say no but still be open to sex. I've known lots of situations like and the two people involved would later go on to date. Sorry but women don't always communicate clearly and honestly. If no always meant no, things would be simple but no doesn't always mean no. Reality is messy and the participants are unwilling to be clear. I know many of you white knights are brought up learning that "no means no" but that's just not true for most women. I know many of you will think I'm condoning rape but I'm not. I've known people who were really raped before including men and rape is a horrible thing that can mess up a kid permanently. I condemn rape in the strongest terms but the truth is, women play games and they don't have full agency nor do they like to fully exercise the agency they have.
 
zephyrprime said:
Honestly, there are lots of times when a girl will say no but still be open to sex. I've known lots of situations like and the two people involved would later go on to date. Sorry but women don't always communicate clearly and honestly. If no always meant no, things would be simple but no doesn't always mean no. Reality is messy and the participants are unwilling to be clear. I know many of you white knights are brought up learning that "no means no" but that's just not true for most women. I know many of you will think I'm condoning rape but I'm not. I've known people who were really raped before including men and rape is a horrible thing that can mess up a kid permanently. I condemn rape in the strongest terms but the truth is, women play games and they don't have full agency nor do they like to fully exercise the agency they have.
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Being a "white knight" implies you are trying to impress some girl with your obsequious behavior. This is ATPN, there are no women here.

Having sex with someone after they told you to stop and they give you no indication they have changed their mind is really wrong. It is not necessary for them to forcibly stop you.
 
A scary number of posters seem to think that men are ruled by their penis, that men have no willpower, nor sense of honor or even basic respect for another human being.
 
alzan said:
A scary number of posters seem to think that men are ruled by their penis, that men have no willpower, nor sense of honor
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As opposed to the scary number of posters who seem to think that women are morons and incapable of agency?

Imagine some dude was taking off your underwear, with the clear implication is was about to fuck you in the ass, would you just lay there and wait for him to finish his business?

alzan said:
or even basic respect for another human being.
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I think perhaps you don't understand what the word respect means:
a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
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Respect is something earned. Quite simply a girl you hook up with is not exactly high on the list of respect.
 
CitizenKain said:
Well, no one here thinks that beyond you and brandonb, also both of you seem really defensive of sexual offenders for some reason.
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Actually no that is what liberals think when they declare the encounter rape.

Replace the woman in the encounter with a man and no one would think it was rape. Because everyone considers men to have agency.
 
brandonb said:
Sorry its common sense. If you don't want to be raped. You GTFO...
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Of your own bed???




brandonb said:
Not fighting someone off? She was sleeping in the same bed as someone who wanted sex...
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Oh, well, in that case, it was perfectly ok for him to force himself on her. 🙄


brandonb said:
You'd be the only one.
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And you'd be the only one who doesn't get how ugly and clueless you sound . . . well, you and your fellow deeply disturbed creepster nehalem.
 
nehalem256 said:
Well and apparently the columnist at the Washington Post.
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George Will has always been a pompous little apologist for the right. My bet is that, if he weren't such so rigidly repressed, he'd fondle a penis or two. Or three.
 
zephyrprime said:
I know many of you will think I'm condoning rape but I'm not.
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Oh, why should we think that?

I've known people who were really raped before including men and rape is a horrible thing that can mess up a kid permanently. I condemn rape in the strongest terms
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Oh, you know people that were raped! Then it must be so.

but the truth is, women play games and they don't have full agency nor do they like to fully exercise the agency they have.
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FUUUUU! You just flat out condoned rape.
You see, it does not matter if women have 'agency' or not. It does not matter if they say yes and sometimes mean no. It does not matter if you know a girl that was okay that someone has sex with her with out her consent. Just assume that ANYTHING other then a enthusiastic HELL YES! is NO!
[size=+1]IT IS NOT ON HER TO PREVENT BEING RAPED![/size]
[size=+2]IT IS YOUR JOB NOT TO RAPE.[/size]
 
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Jaskalas said:
And the first thing you thought of when a woman climbs into bed with a man was your cousin.
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Hell, if I'm climbing into bed with a woman who specifically tells me that sex isn't happening, I'll think of my grandma doing the truffle shuffle; anything to help prevent an awkward erection. Horniness isn't a valid excuse for rape.
 
Atomic Playboy said:
Hell, if I'm climbing into bed with a woman who specifically tells me that sex isn't happening, I'll think of my grandma doing the truffle shuffle; anything to help prevent an awkward erection. Horniness isn't a valid excuse for rape.
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First you deflect with family, then you veer off into the rape. I was very specific about the point I was making. That climbing into bed with someone is intimate, it's an invitation. That's all.

Now you seem very interested in the broader subject, so let's have at it. If this goes before a Jury and I'm on it, what am I supposed to base a decision on. On what evidentiary basis am I supposed to objectively quantify the crime and pass a judgement?

The problem isn't that I agree with his actions. It's that I wasn't there to witness it. I don't know the truth of it and without violence, without force, I've got nothing to see. The entire case would be He said... She said... And from word alone I'm going to pass judgement and issue a sentence of 10, 20, life?
 
eskimospy said:
I like how laying there doing nothing to reciprocate is "acting willing", even after saying no before. There is no requirement to continue saying no over and over again to unwanted sexual advances in order for it to be sexual assault.

What the hell is wrong with you.
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He's either a first degree rapist or 40 year old virgin. Major misogynist either way.

Creepy.
 
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