RANT: I am a Mac User. I am not an Idiot.

[Puddle Jumper]

The biggest argument I hear here is 'I can build a quad-core desktop for $2000 less than a MacPro.' Sure you can, if you choose to go with a Core2Quad or i7. If you go with Xeons, like the MacPro has, it's an entirely different price segment and the MacPro actually ends up being cheaper than if you tried to build a dual-proc Xeon workstation on your own.

This build is cheaper and faster than a Mac Pro

My build - $1,696
Intel Xeon W3520 2.66ghz Quad Core
Asus P6T x58 mobo
6gb OCZ DDR3 1600 CAS 8
Intel X25-M G2 80gb
Samsung F1 750gb hard drive
LG 10x Blu-ray Burner
XFX Radeon HD 5770 1gb
Lian Li Armorsuit PC -P50
Corsair 650tx
Windows 7 Pro 64bit

Mac Pro - $2,499
One 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon "Nehalem" processor
3GB (three 1GB) memory
640GB hard drive
18x double-layer SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 512MB

 

[alfa147x]

This build is cheaper and faster than a Mac Pro

My build - $1,696
Intel Xeon W3520 2.66ghz Quad Core
Asus P6T x58 mobo
6gb OCZ DDR3 1600 CAS 8
Intel X25-M G2 80gb
Samsung F1 750gb hard drive
LG 10x Blu-ray Burner
XFX Radeon HD 5770 1gb
Lian Li Armorsuit PC -P50
Corsair 650tx
Windows 7 Pro 64bit

Mac Pro - $2,499
One 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon "Nehalem" processor
3GB (three 1GB) memory
640GB hard drive
18x double-layer SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 512MB

Doesn't use ECC memory your comparison does not compair. Also left out the cost of a aluminum case.

 

[MJinZ]

The Alienware laptops that I have seen have been mostly shiny plastic crap. Incredible performers sure, but certainly the last generation of them (before they went matte black with the slanted fronts) felt like 17" $3500 Happy Meal toys. I have played with the latest versions at brick and mortar stores and they aren't terrible, but an Alienware is not exactly for everyone, not just because it is heavy, expensive, and gets crummy battery life, but because it seems to be covered in LEDs and garish design choices like glowing speaker grilles.

I've owned both. The Alienware's Magnesium Alloy frame and overall build quality was just as good as the Macbook Pro.

Never owned old Alienwares so I would know. If you haven't owned a new Alienware, then you should probably stop talking.

You can turn off the Alienware LEDs.... I don't think you can turn off the glowing Apple.

And whoever thought glowing fruit would so awesomezz...

 

[alfa147x]

I've owned both. The Alienware's Magnesium Alloy frame and overall build quality was just as good as the Macbook Pro.

Never owned old Alienwares so I would know. If you haven't owned a new Alienware, then you should probably stop talking.

You can turn off the Alienware LEDs.... I don't think you can turn off the glowing Apple.

And whoever thought glowing fruit would so awesomezz...

I still think the build quality on the new alienware's are lacking. I have used a couple of the newer ones too.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Doesn't use ECC memory your comparison does not compair. Also left out the cost of a aluminum case.

The Armorsuit is aluminum and if ECC memory is worth nearly a grand to you then go ahead and buy the inferior system. You also conveniently forgot that the PC has more storage, a SSD, double the memory, and a considerably faster gpu.

 

[zmatt]

Just to point it out, ECC memory is only needed in servers. It doesn't speed things up, it just protects against memory errors.

 

[alfa147x]

The Armorsuit is aluminum and if ECC memory is worth nearly a grand to you then go ahead and buy the inferior system. You also conveniently forgot that the PC has more storage, a SSD, double the memory, and a considerably faster gpu.

I'm just pointing at that you are comparing two different things.

 

[TheStu]

I've owned both. The Alienware's Magnesium Alloy frame and overall build quality was just as good as the Macbook Pro.

Never owned old Alienwares so I would know. If you haven't owned a new Alienware, then you should probably stop talking.

You can turn off the Alienware LEDs.... I don't think you can turn off the glowing Apple.

And whoever thought glowing fruit would so awesomezz...

The 'glowing apple' is merely a cutout in the lid, the backlight glows through.

And it is good to know that you can turn off the LEDs, in addition to the aggressive angular styling the glow from the speakers just felt like it over emphasized the 'gamer' aesthetic. That aesthetic seeming to primarily focus on as many angles, glossy plastics, and LEDs as they can cram in next to the 3 hard drives, dual GPUs and desktop quad cores.

As I said before, they are impressive performers, and if you have the absolute necessity for a system with much power, then Alienware is one of the few makers that can provide it.

I not only do not need that much power, but would rather be able to carry my laptop around without breaking at least 2 bags (my friend with an XPS m1730, the one made after Dell bought Alienware broke that many hauling his to school), and without having to use a seperate horse cart for the power brick

Furthermore, I 'insist' on using OS X, especially on my portable systems as I feel it is far superior to Windows and Linux with regards to managing windows and multiple applications, especially on smaller screens and as such will almost certainly buy nothing but Apple laptops for the forseeable future. The greater battery life to performance level of the entire family as well as the more (to me) pleasing design, some of the best build quality in the industry, one of the best keyboards in the industry (subjective I admit, but I do not believe I am alone with this assessment) the best trackpads in the industry means that I am getting a rather good laptop out of my insistence.

There is no such thing as 'the best' laptop, for you it might be a lenovo or an alienware, for me it is a Mac.

 

[alfa147x]

It is all personal preference. Also please don't tell me that Alienware has any laptops with a somewhat professional look to it.

 

[zylander]

Indeed, its hard to match the build quality of apple and remain 100s or 1000s cheaper.

However, you can get close and still save significant amounts. And when you get a great deal on a pc laptop, you generally can sell it a year latter for the same price...

IE my dell studio 1537 9cell bat (lasted 5 hours or more new) Led backlit, wireless N, 320GB HD 4GB (came with 3GB which caused problems) core 2 duo 2ghz, only cost 450. I could prob sell it for more than that over a year latter.

But I will be honest, the build quality is kinda plasticly, but it will last a long time. And the track pad sucks. But battery life and screen is great. I really dont like trackpads i always carry a little mouse. Though i dont use laptops unless i have too, which is little to never now... i really prefer 24" monitor keyboard mouse.

I still which scale had more features too it, its very hard to manage windows with more than 6 open, on a 24" screen. Having to click and hold on programs on the dock takes to much time. I like the dock but they need ot do something, something inovative. Shit copy windows i care. But its hard to manage, say 8 pdfs, a couple words (which sucks in mac 2011 should fix that) and misc windows.

Ya battery life on my Dell was awful even with the upgraded 9cell battery. Screen wasnt anything spectacular either.

 

[TheStu]

It is all personal preference. Also please don't tell me that Alienware has any laptops with a somewhat professional look to it.

Exactly, what is better? A soft glowing apple, or LED lit red alien eyes staring at you in a meeting? Here is a clue from someone who has been there... the alien eyes ain't it!

It isn't like the apple burns bright with the fire of a thousand suns or anything, it is no more intrusive than the round dell badge on a Latitude.

 

[TheStu]

This build is cheaper and faster than a Mac Pro

My build - $1,696
Intel Xeon W3520 2.66ghz Quad Core
Asus P6T x58 mobo
6gb OCZ DDR3 1600 CAS 8
Intel X25-M G2 80gb
Samsung F1 750gb hard drive
LG 10x Blu-ray Burner
XFX Radeon HD 5770 1gb
Lian Li Armorsuit PC -P50
Corsair 650tx
Windows 7 Pro 64bit

Mac Pro - $2,499
One 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon "Nehalem" processor
3GB (three 1GB) memory
640GB hard drive
18x double-layer SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 512MB

You forgot one very important component.

Your version cannot run OS X. I am not saying that it is worth the entire price difference... but to some of us, it counts for a lot.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

5) The darn keyboard isn't standard, where is my god damn printscreen, insert, page up page down, home, end keys, and why are the alt(option) and windows(command) key swapped?

I've got all of those on my Microsoft keyboard plugged in to my Mac Pro. The MS software for Macs also includes a way to swap the Alt and Windows keys (to act as Cmd and Option, respectively) and it turns the right-side Application key into a second Option key. It works great. (OSX's built-in Keyboard control panel, errr system preferences pane, also has ways to swap Cmd, Ctrl, Option, etc. You can also set your Caps Lock to be a modifier key, which apparently is well-loved by old-school Sun users.) The dedicated volume +/- keys work great, the play/pause button works with iTunes, the back/forward buttons work in every browser I've tried, the zoom slider works in browsers... I love this keyboard.

Apple is pulling the ads because not only has it been negatively perceived as a smear campaign in general, but it has backfired. PC Guy (John Hodgman) is now far more famous than the Mac guy.

I don't know if he's more or less famous (Justin Long has had some roles in major movies), but I agree that the ads have backfired. I like PC a lot better than I like Mac. Who wants to have a smarmy jerk of a computer?

 

[Zaap]

You forgot one very important component.

Your version cannot run OS X. I am not saying that it is worth the entire price difference... but to some of us, it counts for a lot.

I don't think his specific graphic card is compatible, but OSX does run on an Asus P6T based 'Hackintosh'.

Just to point it out, ECC memory is only needed in servers. It doesn't speed things up, it just protects against memory errors.

Very true, in fact, it can *slightly* slow things down, as error correction somewhat translates to redundancy. Great for stability though- as in for servers and workstations.

The Xeon is ballyhooed a lot too, when really there's not much difference between one and a directly comparable i7 (or older Core2) other than server microcode (more redundancy), a smidge more high temp tolerances, and the brand name. It does sound super-cool though, compared to a yawner product name like 'i7'.

By the way, I'm not busting on the MacPro- it is a very good deal for what one gets. (Especially the dual-proc models) But not everyone needs the workstation features, so a significantly cheaper system with close to the same performance level is a great deal for many.

 

[slashbinslashbash]

No doubt, the Xeon is overpriced for what you get. I only moved from an iMac to a Mac Pro when I found a first-gen 2.0GHz Mac Pro for like $1300 on eBay and the MS Live Cashback was pretty high. I sold my 24" iMac for $800 and was able to upgrade to the Mac Pro for ~$400. (I already had a monitor I could use.) I am definitely happy with the Mac Pro as it means I can have a decent number of internal hard drives. With my iMac, I had several externals daisy-chained across my desk. All those FireWire and power cables... not a pretty sight. Also, my iMac was chipset limited to 3GB of RAM, and now I'm sitting here with 8GB, which can make a big difference when you've got 10 programs and 50 browser tabs open. I rarely use all 8GB, but I'm in the 6-7GB range all the time.

That said, if Apple came out with a normal "Mac" with a tower form factor, space for 4 internal HDD's, 3-4 RAM slots and a Core i7, that is undoubtedly what I would have preferred.

 

[WildW]

I owned a Mac for a while running OSX 10.3, it didn't seem to do anything that Windows (XP) didn't also do. I don't care what other people spend their money on so long as they are happy. . . the question isn't "why all the Mac hate?" . . . it's "why all the Mac love?"

Macs _are_ expensive. <checks the Apple store>

iMacs from &#163;969, top end is an i5 with Ati 4850, for &#163;1634.

Mac Pro from &#163;1940. Top end graphics are an Ati 4870 (512MB) for an extra &#163;200.

Can you upgrade graphics cards on these things yourself with "normal" PC parts? Maybe this is just a gamer's perspective, but that is very expensive for what you get. Where are the high end GPUs?

 

[Kaido]

Just to point it out, ECC memory is only needed in servers. It doesn't speed things up, it just protects against memory errors.

I've heard ECC is actually slower, because of the error checking.

I also don't see the need for it on a desktop level. I work with large files on a regular basis (3D & HD Video) and never have problems. I sometimes even question it on the servers I maintain at work...but then again I question the 15k SAS drives over SF-1500 SSD's

 

[sourceninja]

I owned a Mac for a while running OSX 10.3, it didn't seem to do anything that Windows (XP) didn't also do.

I didn't start using Mac until 10.5 and there was one reason for switching. Unlike windows mac can run commercial applications linux does't have (like photoshop) and is itself a certified linux which means it can also run all the apps I love in linux well.

If windows because a certified unix I'd consider moving back.

Mind you have I have not used windows as a main computer in probably 5 years (linux then mac). To me apple is just building really nice unix systems without all the hassle you get with linux and notebooks (which admittedly is getting a lot better). I think the few hundred extra I pay is worth it for the nitch features such as the track pad and the rock solid unix system.

 

[MJinZ]

I've got all of those on my Microsoft keyboard plugged in to my Mac Pro. The MS software for Macs also includes a way to swap the Alt and Windows keys (to act as Cmd and Option, respectively) and it turns the right-side Application key into a second Option key. It works great. (OSX's built-in Keyboard control panel, errr system preferences pane, also has ways to swap Cmd, Ctrl, Option, etc. You can also set your Caps Lock to be a modifier key, which apparently is well-loved by old-school Sun users.) The dedicated volume +/- keys work great, the play/pause button works with iTunes, the back/forward buttons work in every browser I've tried, the zoom slider works in browsers... I love this keyboard.



I don't know if he's more or less famous (Justin Long has had some roles in major movies), but I agree that the ads have backfired. I like PC a lot better than I like Mac. Who wants to have a smarmy jerk of a computer?

Right, and recognizability factor, John HOdgman wins by a mile in anythign he does. People will immediately recognize, hey there's PC! But Justin Long ... some might feel like they've seen him somewhere, most probably won't be able to point it out.

 

[MJinZ]

I owned a Mac for a while running OSX 10.3, it didn't seem to do anything that Windows (XP) didn't also do. I don't care what other people spend their money on so long as they are happy. . . the question isn't "why all the Mac hate?" . . . it's "why all the Mac love?"

Macs _are_ expensive. <checks the Apple store>

iMacs from £969, top end is an i5 with Ati 4850, for £1634.

Mac Pro from £1940. Top end graphics are an Ati 4870 (512MB) for an extra £200.

Can you upgrade graphics cards on these things yourself with "normal" PC parts? Maybe this is just a gamer's perspective, but that is very expensive for what you get. Where are the high end GPUs?

Mac Love is easy - who doesn't love trendy, thin, sexy things?

After running both side by side for about 2 years, you find that all it does is sit there and look pretty. I got rid of my Macbooks because well, it was basically just running Itunes, it didn't do anything special and lot of aspects of it annoyed me (especially the window management, mouse movement algorithms, sleeping habits (everytime the Ipod unplugs, the fucking thing wakes up with the screen closed...))... and Windows 7 now kills it in terms of productivity capability, especially the ways are able to snap around.

My desktop is out of commission right now since I sold both of my graphics cards, so I'm currently running a Netbook (Asus 1005PE) that is able to concurrently browse the web on one side of the screen and watch an Xvid movie on the right side (running 30 + FPS)... connected to a mouse and 24" Monitor, I just have to grin to see what $300 can really do these days.

 

[MJinZ]

The 'glowing apple' is merely a cutout in the lid, the backlight glows through.

And it is good to know that you can turn off the LEDs, in addition to the aggressive angular styling the glow from the speakers just felt like it over emphasized the 'gamer' aesthetic. That aesthetic seeming to primarily focus on as many angles, glossy plastics, and LEDs as they can cram in next to the 3 hard drives, dual GPUs and desktop quad cores.

As I said before, they are impressive performers, and if you have the absolute necessity for a system with much power, then Alienware is one of the few makers that can provide it.

I not only do not need that much power, but would rather be able to carry my laptop around without breaking at least 2 bags (my friend with an XPS m1730, the one made after Dell bought Alienware broke that many hauling his to school), and without having to use a seperate horse cart for the power brick

Furthermore, I 'insist' on using OS X, especially on my portable systems as I feel it is far superior to Windows and Linux with regards to managing windows and multiple applications, especially on smaller screens and as such will almost certainly buy nothing but Apple laptops for the forseeable future. The greater battery life to performance level of the entire family as well as the more (to me) pleasing design, some of the best build quality in the industry, one of the best keyboards in the industry (subjective I admit, but I do not believe I am alone with this assessment) the best trackpads in the industry means that I am getting a rather good laptop out of my insistence.

There is no such thing as 'the best' laptop, for you it might be a lenovo or an alienware, for me it is a Mac.

The Droid vs the Iphone.

One is distinctinly "masculine". You can probably figure out which one.

The styling is definitely dependent on what you like. I would buy an Alienware and take it to meetings, and I also own a Droid. The M15x is nothing but modern looking, and once you turn off all the lights, all you see is incredibly sleek muscular looking machine. It just exudes power.

Actually, that's what the M11X is for. Small and compact, perfect for meetings and presentations.

So yea, it depends on who you are. If you don't think you can rock an Alienware but you can someone rock a Macbook, perhaps it's time to look into just how people perceive Macs these days and knock one off the "cool" list, if you think they are now just as acceptable as an IBM T-Series at a meeting.

 

[TheWart]

The Droid vs the Iphone.

One is distinctinly "masculine". You can probably figure out which one.

I guess if by masculine you mean clunky lol

 

[alfa147x]

Haha the droid as masculine

The droid is more like the pontiac aztek

 

[TheStu]

The Droid vs the Iphone.

One is distinctinly "masculine". You can probably figure out which one.

The styling is definitely dependent on what you like. I would buy an Alienware and take it to meetings, and I also own a Droid. The M15x is nothing but modern looking, and once you turn off all the lights, all you see is incredibly sleek muscular looking machine. It just exudes power.

Actually, that's what the M11X is for. Small and compact, perfect for meetings and presentations.

So yea, it depends on who you are. If you don't think you can rock an Alienware but you can someone rock a Macbook, perhaps it's time to look into just how people perceive Macs these days and knock one off the "cool" list, if you think they are now just as acceptable as an IBM T-Series at a meeting.

I actually like the design of the Droid, and the design of the iPhone. I like the Moto Devour's design better than the Droid (more symmetrical)

If you think the m15x (or any of the current Alienware's) look professional, then alright, we disagree. I think that a MacBook Pro and a Thinkpad are both equally acceptable in a professional (non gaming professional) environment since they both have uncluttered designs, they are just there.

Anyway, it really isn't important. For all the same reasons that you seem to not like using OS X, I like using OS X. I like how the windows are managed, I can do more in OS X. I like how mouse tracking works here too.

 

[MJinZ]

I actually like the design of the Droid, and the design of the iPhone. I like the Moto Devour's design better than the Droid (more symmetrical)

If you think the m15x (or any of the current Alienware's) look professional, then alright, we disagree. I think that a MacBook Pro and a Thinkpad are both equally acceptable in a professional (non gaming professional) environment since they both have uncluttered designs, they are just there.

Anyway, it really isn't important. For all the same reasons that you seem to not like using OS X, I like using OS X. I like how the windows are managed, I can do more in OS X. I like how mouse tracking works here too.

Look at the Mac designers.

Turtleneck, black shirt, jeans.

There's nothing strictly "professional" about Macs and their users or image.

I would definitely say a high end Alienware with a guy in a shirt and tie is a lot more professional looking.