Raids target Christian militia in Midwest

[Doc Savage Fan]

define: christian

Some Christians are nouns....and some Christians are verbs. And therein lies the rub. Capeesh?

 

[Corn]

wut?

Haha, Fail.

 

[Ozoned]

You really are a fucking idiot.

A little harsh Corn. He does understand how to score points in debate.

Heh heh.

 

[Ozoned]

define: christian

Which of the 3800 Christian denominations definitions do you want to use?

 

[Red Dawn]

Onward Christian Soldier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns

 

[xj0hnx]

They can merge the threads now. This is just another christian bashing thread. I'm glad they caught these crazies but do you really think it's fair to equate christian extremist/terrorist incidents with terrorists using muslim religion to justify their actions? No.

Yes, the loony left not only thinks it's fair, but enjoys doing it, it gives them the warm fuzzies inside.

 

[Infohawk]

It shows how unreasonable some posters are that they are not even willing to accept the likelihood that these perps were both hard-core Christians and terrorists. THere have been christian terrorists in the past and there will be christian terrorists in the future. Deal with it.

 

[rudder]

Glad to see the Feds are cracking down on the rightie wing nuts.

The group proclaims themselves to be "religious militants". Might as well call themselves Al-Qaeda-For-Christ.

http://toledoblade.com/article/20100401/NEWS16/4010369/"

oh snap! At least one was a left wing nut as well.

 

[umbrella39]

Well there you have it. If his myspace says he's 78 I guess he's an AARP member, too.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Janet Reno is back in the gov't?

Praise the LORD and pass the ammunition, Hutaree will set you free! Oh sorry, had a CsG moment there. :biggrin:

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

I don't care if these idiots worship the blue fluid barbers keep their combs and scissors in, they're terrorists. Plain and simple.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I agree in part with what some people are saying about the actual prevelance of terrorism in each religion, as well as the prevelance of support for terrorism among the rank and file. It isn't an entirely fair comparison, at least not if you are looking at the present time as a snapshot of history (going back into the past is another matter.)

I do, however, find it amusing that whenever a Christian does something bad in the name of Christianity, that Christians are very quick to label that person as "not a true Christian." The hypocrisy is painfully obvious when you realize that Muslims continuously argue amongst themselves about the true meaning and application of Jihad, with many Muslims saying that AQ is a perversion of true Islam. Christian critics of Islam seem to want to insert themselves into that discussion and proclaim that people like OBL are actually correct, i.e. that terroristic violence is commanded by the religion. But when it comes to their own religion, they can conveniently dissociate themselves from any wrongdoing by defining the wrongdoer out of their group. Funny that, as a Jew I can't recall ever claiming that Baruch Goldstein wasn't a "real Jew."

But the connection here with Christianity is less interesting to me than the connection to a whole complex of far right peroccupation with revolution, civil war, and violence in general, whether related to religion or not. It really seems to be all over the place these days, whether it is tea partiers, militia types, or even AT posters. It seems to be getting pretty mainstream, and that is what I find most disturbing. When you make ideas like that mainstream within a political bloc it becomes inevitable that a kooky fringe will act on it at some point or another. Clearly 99.999% of the people who talk about this stuff would never act on it. Indeed, most are too cowardly to back of up their words with deeds. However, the words we choose have consequence. Maybe we should think more carefully about how we choose to express our political opposition because you never know what kind of whackjob may be listening and taking our words just a little too seriously.

- wolf

The wonderful thing about P&N is it provides a place where so many can say so much about that which they know virtually nothing. This thread is a perfect example at so many levels.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It shows how unreasonable some posters are that they are not even willing to accept the likelihood that these perps were both hard-core Christians and terrorists. THere have been christian terrorists in the past and there will be christian terrorists in the future. Deal with it.

A Christian is one who follows the teachings of Christ. One can claim to be a football, but that does not make it so. If you can find where Christ said to start shooting police or did so, then we have a basis for the first part. As far as Muslims go, the majority just want to get up, go to work, practice their faith, come home and be with their family. I don't buy into their "evil" either.

Regardless, this is a group which apparently planned to kill police. That warrants a trial, and if convicted, punishment.

The real purpose of these threads is to attack other members by one upping each other with ignorance.

That defines a large part of threads started here.

 

[Turin39789]

A Christian is one who follows the teachings of Christ. One can claim to be a football, but that does not make it so. If you can find where Christ said to start shooting police or did so, then we have a basis for the first part. As far as Muslims go, the majority just want to get up, go to work, practice their faith, come home and be with their family. I don't buy into their "evil" either.

Regardless, this is a group which apparently planned to kill police. That warrants a trial, and if convicted, punishment.

The real purpose of these threads is to attack other members by one upping each other with ignorance.

That defines a large part of threads started here.

I'm not a christian myself, but I think your definition is a little strict, but the idea of defining other people's religion makes me feel all heeby jeeby anyway.

I've typically defined christian as someone who believes in jesus christ. Thats about all the requirement I throw on them, but again I don't want to be the one to tell someone if they fit into a category that is based on what they think inside their heads. Anytime I see someone say "Oh them? They aren't real Christians" the spidey sense goes off.

If they have to follow the teachings of Christ, doesn't that mean that to be a Christian you have to do this? -

"And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." Disheartened by the saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions."

 

[DanDaManJC]

If the terrorist acts by fringe Christian groups ever reaches the heights currently observed in the Muslim world, then Christianity will have occasion to speak out. Do you really think most people's perspective of Christians is that they are violent terrorists? If the perspective isn't such, why would Christians need to speak out? It's a given that the vast majority of Christians (i.e. 99&#37 see this groups' acts as completely wrong.

I'd say the biggest difference between the two worlds, outside religion, is the poverty level and perception of a certain imperial country always meddling in their affairs. If the tables were turned, I'd guess we'd have a few more fundamentalists raving about the end times and the anti christ.But that really is pure speculation on my part.

edit: my point is that people like to generalize and say that all these muslim terrorists are somehow formed in a muslim vaccum --- independent of their shitty living conditions, world politics factors and so on... and that's really something that should obviously not be true.

 

[BoberFett]

I feel sorry for law enforcement that will have to deal with these types that are on a mission from god after lubing up the AR-16 that can be easily and readily purchased from anywhere on line. I believe religion in this country is like a ticking time bomb.

I feel sorry for those who have to deal with your stupidity on a daily basis. There is nothing correct in what you just wrote.

 

[Fern]

Originally Posted by HumblePie
Umm, just to nitpick but.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism


Just to throw a wrench in your corn flakes, but you do remember at least North Ireland and all the fun christian bombings between catholics and protestants? I know it was mostly in the 80's but still...

Sorry but you are so far out in left field it is not even funny!
What happenned in Northern ireland was akin to a civil war based totally on religion.
-snip-

This is a little OT, but I see this often and it bothers me.

I think it misrepresents the situation to say it is a religious war, or a civil war.

This started back in the early 1600's at the very least, it can be fairly said to have begun much earlier (part of England's conquest of Scotland & Ireland).

So, it's really more a part of England's conquering of Ireland than simply a religious war. It's not really a civil war (Irish vs Irish) because the peoples in the North are Scottish/English and those in the South are Irish.

To be brief, England was having a great deal of trouble controling the Irish chieftans in Northern Irelands, so in the early 1600's they confiscated their lands and moved primarily (Lowlander) Scottish (some English were included) settlers over there to occupy it, displacing the Irish.

This is more of a continuation of an invasion and land grab grab by a foreign country, yet these days (falsely IMO) is described as a religious war. It's the decendants of the Scottish/English invaders in the North still fighting against the Irish decendants in the South, and it's been so long they can't remember why.

Decent links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantation_of_Ulster

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Scots_people


Fern

 

[fallout man]

Allahu Yahweh!
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[feralkid]

"Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment."

Is that like the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch?

 

[kage69]

Is that like the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch?

It blows thine enemies to tiny bits! As long as thou remembers that six is right out.

 

[Noobtastic]

Big deal.

Saudis have bought out all our mosques. Spewing hate speech and bigotry to anyone who listens. Groups like CAIR and the AMA lobbying for Hamas, Al-Qaeda, and other Islamists movements.

Government will never criticize the Muslim "charity" movements or Saudi Arabia's infiltration of our academic institutions.

Nope...just hate on those pesky Christians.

 

[jman19]

It's just how he rolls.

http://www.jinx.com/men/shirts/video_games/jesus_saves.html

 

[Lanyap]

Onward Christian Soldier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns

Crazy christian alert.

Wife swap - extreme version.
Somebody needs a toof.

http://www.jinx.com/men/shirts/video_games/jesus_saves.html

Cool name - Erol Otus

 

[Modelworks]

I've typically defined christian as someone who believes in jesus christ. Thats about all the requirement I throw on them, but again I don't want to be the one to tell someone if they fit into a category that is based on what they think inside their heads. Anytime I see someone say "Oh them? They aren't real Christians" the spidey sense goes off.

For me the problem I have is that so many blame religion for what men do. If someone who claims to be a Christian kills people and says God told him to do it, people typically blame Christianity or religion instead of blaming the man and the choices he made. Probably the best thing to ever happen to Christianity was the bible being printed so anyone could read it. Before that it was only read by people in positions of power and yes many did warp its meanings and use it for their own purposes. That doesn't make the religion bad, but people will use that as a reason to damn the whole thing. For me I refuse to take anyone else interpretation of the bible. I read it myself and my interpretation is the only one that counts. In that way I feel I am following what Christ would want and not some other person telling me what they think it means. If I hear someone say something, I can pick up a bible and see for myself whether it is true. People that do things because their preacher tells them what they should do are sheep and they do not know Christ. The people who really do know Christ and have him in their heart don't need anyone to tell them when they are doing right or wrong.

If they have to follow the teachings of Christ, doesn't that mean that to be a Christian you have to do this? -

"And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." Disheartened by the saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions."

What Jesus was doing there was confronting someone who claimed to be a follower yet would not be willing to give up what he had to someone else who needed it. Many times Jesus did things like that because he knew that the persons heart was really not with his teachings. An example is people that do things not for the right reasons but because it is expected of them or because they want the approval of others when they do it. People that give to charities then go around saying "I gave $1000 to charity" boasting about it do not get any reward for it. They didn't do it for the right reasons. They did it so others would like them and say what a nice person they were . The ones that give and never take credit , are willing to help those in need because they feel it is right, those are the ones that are rewarded. The man in your quote was only doing what he needed to do to appear Christian , like so many do by attending church, paying tithes, donating when their is a big advertised function when they would not do any of it if other people were not watching.

 

[werepossum]

Allahu Yahweh!
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

"Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment."

Is that like the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch?

LOL!

Anybody notice that the original story said the group was building bombs, then it later came out that an FBI undercover agent built bombs for the group "under the leader's supervision"? If a nice man comes to your militia group and offers to build you some bombs, JUST SAY NO!