Radical Islams war against the west

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
:roll:

Does the movie explain how the radicals are enraged and empowered by the injustices we purpotrate on the Muslim world?

You mean, how these radicals have engaged in behavior and terrorist activities that emote a response, which are then interpreted as injustices purpotrated on the Muslim world.

Yes, in many ways, such as our emotional response to 9/11 lead us into attacking Iraq under false pretences. Even if only 1 person takes up extremism for every 100 innocent civilians we have killed in Iraq, that is about 4,000 more people we turned against us. Then of course there is our unflinching support for Israel as they continue to occupy and expand their into Palestinian land while killing innocent civilians by the thousands and oppressing millions.

I'm just over 40 minutes into the movie now and curiously it hasn't bothered to explain such legitimate grievances against us. Do they just never bother to accept our share of the blame in this?

Here is a good personal example, the man seems strong enough not to turn to extremism in response to what happened, but it is easy to see how others are not so strong:

*fixed link*

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
:roll:

Does the movie explain how the radicals are enraged and empowered by the injustices we purpotrate on the Muslim world?

You mean, how these radicals have engaged in behavior and terrorist activities that emote a response, which are then interpreted as injustices purpotrated on the Muslim world.

Yes, in many ways, such as our emotional response to 9/11 lead us into attacking Iraq under false pretences. Even if only 1 person takes up extremism for every 100 innocent civilians we have killed in Iraq, that is about 4,000 more people we turned against us. Then of course there is our unflinching support for Israel as they continue to occupy and expand their into Palestinian land while killing innocent civilians by the thousands and oppressing millions.

I'm just over 40 minutes into the movie now and curiously it hasn't bothered to explain such legitimate grievances against us. Do they just never bother to accept our share of the blame in this?

Here is a good personal example, the man seems strong enough not to turn to extremism in response to what happened, but it is easy to see how others are not so strong:

http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/2251...s_Stone_Human_Rights_Workers_In_Hebron

There's an entire thread about that link.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

It wasn't mentioned in the video. One of the best selling books in the Middle East is Mien Kampf.
This is true.


...Galvanized

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

There's an entire thread about that link.

Bah, wrong link. Here is the one I meant to post:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0

 

[Alienwho]

The sooner we turn that entire area into glass, the better. I'll press the button. Flame on, I don't care.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Aimster
I guarantee that you do not even associate with Muslim people or see them on a daily basis.
Your community is all majority population and minorities do not exist.

No doubt about that! Nebraska?! Yup, that is a hot bed of potential attacks by Muslim extremists. :roll:

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
:roll:

Does the movie explain how the radicals are enraged and empowered by the injustices we purpotrate on the Muslim world?

You mean, how these radicals have engaged in behavior and terrorist activities that emote a response, which are then interpreted as injustices purpotrated on the Muslim world.

Yes, in many ways, such as our emotional response to 9/11 lead us into attacking Iraq under false pretences. Even if only 1 person takes up extremism for every 100 innocent civilians we have killed in Iraq, that is about 4,000 more people we turned against us. Then of course there is our unflinching support for Israel as they continue to occupy and expand their into Palestinian land while killing innocent civilians by the thousands and oppressing millions.

I'm just over 40 minutes into the movie now and curiously it hasn't bothered to explain such legitimate grievances against us. Do they just never bother to accept our share of the blame in this?

Here is a good personal example, the man seems strong enough not to turn to extremism in response to what happened, but it is easy to see how others are not so strong:

*fixed link*

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0

It explains it later on, keep watching

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: Aimster
I guarantee that you do not even associate with Muslim people or see them on a daily basis.
Your community is all majority population and minorities do not exist.

No doubt about that! Nebraska?! Yup, that is a hot bed of potential attacks by Muslim extremists. :roll:

Troll much?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Alienwho
The sooner we turn that entire area into glass, the better. I'll press the button. Flame on, I don't care.

Of course you don't care. You are the walking dead who wishes his death on others. To care requires feeling and love. I hope some day you recover your soul and find the strength to cry.

 

[Alienwho]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Alienwho
The sooner we turn that entire area into glass, the better. I'll press the button. Flame on, I don't care.

Of course you don't care. You are the walking dead who wishes his death on others. To care requires feeling and love. I hope some day you recover your soul and find the strength to cry.

Feel free to label me as walking dead when I declare Jihad on somebody. Until then I'll continue feeling alive and only wish death upon those who not only wish death upon me, but actively persue my death.

I'd like to see what you'd say when those you now protect would slit your throat for not joining them in screaming "death to america". After all you're so enlightened and culturally aware that you would never scream such a thing, would you?

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
:roll:

Does the movie explain how the radicals are enraged and empowered by the injustices we purpotrate on the Muslim world?

You mean, how these radicals have engaged in behavior and terrorist activities that emote a response, which are then interpreted as injustices purpotrated on the Muslim world.

Yes, in many ways, such as our emotional response to 9/11 lead us into attacking Iraq under false pretences. Even if only 1 person takes up extremism for every 100 innocent civilians we have killed in Iraq, that is about 4,000 more people we turned against us. Then of course there is our unflinching support for Israel as they continue to occupy and expand their into Palestinian land while killing innocent civilians by the thousands and oppressing millions.

I'm just over 40 minutes into the movie now and curiously it hasn't bothered to explain such legitimate grievances against us. Do they just never bother to accept our share of the blame in this?

Here is a good personal example, the man seems strong enough not to turn to extremism in response to what happened, but it is easy to see how others are not so strong:

*fixed link*

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0

It explains it later on, keep watching

I watched the whole thing and when it spoke of motives it focused solely on their misconceptions, it never got into the legitimate grievances which they have against us. The movie completely ignored all the wrong we do to Muslim people, not showing anything like what is shown in that video I linked.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Alienwho
The sooner we turn that entire area into glass, the better. I'll press the button. Flame on, I don't care.

You have become what you fear.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Alienwho
The sooner we turn that entire area into glass, the better. I'll press the button. Flame on, I don't care.

Flame what? Did somebody invent a car that runs on water in the last five minutes?

I guess our fates are more deeply intertwined with those of the people in the Middle East than your mind can comprehend.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Does the movie explain how the radicals are enraged and empowered by the injustices we purpotrate on the Muslim world?

Wake up Dorthy we aren't in Kansas anymore.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Lets approach it the other way around -

There are Muslim radicals. There are radical countries (Saudi Arabia, Iran).
What do you think are their goals? What would make them stop?
Is it Israel? If you've wiped Israel off the map tomorrow, would it stop Al Qaeda? Iran's nuclear aspiration? Will it bring democracy to the Middle East?

And most important of all, why do you completely, absolutely rule out the possibility that radical Islam is trying to take over the world and bring a new order, even though they declare it themselves?

You just don't know who you're dealing with, friends. You put every conflict on the same level of action-response, without understanding how profound is the RELIGIOUS aspect present in this conflict.

 

[Todd33]

The people who support Specop 007 are even more scary and paranoid.

One one side we have extremist who want to kill all the non-Muslims. One the other side we have folks who want to kill all the Muslims.

One side says the infidels want to eradicate their Islamic way of life. The other side thinks thinks the Muslims want to eradicate their way of life.

One side thinks the infidels want to invade Arab land. The other side thinks Muslims want to invade and take over their country.

Congrats on becoming the thing you fear. Get help and maybe you can come out from under the bed some day.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Could it be, by any remote chance, that this IS the reality? That the aspirations of the Islamic radicals (and lets not pretend, they are passively supported by the general Islamic public everywhere) are to unite parts of the world under the Shariah?

What kind of information do you have that completely rules that out, to the level of confidence that you suggest we should ignore it?

 

[novon]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Lets approach it the other way around -

There are Muslim radicals. There are radical countries (Saudi Arabia, Iran).
What do you think are their goals? What would make them stop?
Is it Israel? If you've wiped Israel off the map tomorrow, would it stop Al Qaeda? Iran's nuclear aspiration? Will it bring democracy to the Middle East?

And most important of all, why do you completely, absolutely rule out the possibility that radical Islam is trying to take over the world and bring a new order, even though they declare it themselves?

You just don't know who you're dealing with, friends. You put every conflict on the same level of action-response, without understanding how profound is the RELIGIOUS aspect present in this conflict.

First, The civilians, the governments, and the small amount of extremists have to be seperated, you can't just label a whole country as "radical" - That's like calling America radical because in contains neo-Nazi's or extremist Militias.

Iran's government's goal is probably to stop the US and Britian from occupying the region by force as they've done the last century. What would make them stop is if the US changed it's policy of control by any means nessecary, like it's injust support for Israel, or it's many CIA coups around the world (including the coup of the democratic Iran's president in the 1950's). If someone invaded America, we'd try to do the same. Democracy has exsisted in the middle east (Lebanon, Iran, etc.) but since it wasn't convenient for the US's economic goals, it was wiped out one way or another.

If anyone is trying to "take over the world" it would be the neocons in the current administration:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: Bizzaro-SamurAchzar
Could it be, by any remote chance, that this IS the reality? That the aspirations of the Neocon radicals (and lets not pretend, they are passively supported by the general Republican public everywhere) are to unite parts of the world under the US?

What kind of information do you have that completely rules that out, to the level of confidence that you suggest we should ignore it?

See how easy that was? It's called a hypothetical. Do you have any proof that Bush is not an alien trying to take over the Earth?

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: novon

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Lets approach it the other way around -

There are Muslim radicals. There are radical countries (Saudi Arabia, Iran).
What do you think are their goals? What would make them stop?
Is it Israel? If you've wiped Israel off the map tomorrow, would it stop Al Qaeda? Iran's nuclear aspiration? Will it bring democracy to the Middle East?

And most important of all, why do you completely, absolutely rule out the possibility that radical Islam is trying to take over the world and bring a new order, even though they declare it themselves?

You just don't know who you're dealing with, friends. You put every conflict on the same level of action-response, without understanding how profound is the RELIGIOUS aspect present in this conflict.

First, The civilians, the governments, and the small amount of extremists have to be seperated, you can't just label a whole country as "radical" - That's like calling America radical because in contains neo-Nazi's or extremist Militias.

Iran's government's goal is probably to stop the US and Britian from occupying the region by force as they've done the last century. What would make them stop is if the US changed it's policy of control by any means nessecary, like it's injust support for Israel, or it's many CIA coups around the world (including the coup of the democratic Iran's president in the 1950's). If someone invaded America, we'd try to do the same. Democracy has exsisted in the middle east (Lebanon, Iran, etc.) but since it wasn't convenient for the US's economic goals, it was wiped out one way or another.

If anyone is trying to "take over the world" it would be the neocons.

I have two issues with what you said:

1. How does calling for the destruction of Israel fits in what you summarize as the Iranian plan for self defense?

2. Why do you completely altogether ignore the religious aspects of the conflict? I agree that if you take religion out of the equation, it all becomes pretty sane, just an international dispute over several issues, nothing we haven't seen before.
But if you put religion back in, it all changes, does it?

Please, read this article.
The author is a former Iranian who's a very acclaimed publicist for many large newspaper.
Well worth reading.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: Bizzaro-SamurAchzar
Could it be, by any remote chance, that this IS the reality? That the aspirations of the Neocon radicals (and lets not pretend, they are passively supported by the general Republican public everywhere) are to unite parts of the world under the US?

What kind of information do you have that completely rules that out, to the level of confidence that you suggest we should ignore it?

See how easy that was? It's called a hypothetical. Do you have any proof that Bush is not an alien trying to take over the Earth?

I never said anything about the US, and you ARE correct. The US does impose its way of life over the rest of the world, if not by military means, then by economical (look at Cuba).
But personally, I'd rather live under American influence compared to Iranian regime. What about you?

Why don't you pick a side? It's easy to look at issues employing universal morals. For example, Iran should have nukes since Israel and the US has them! But can you, as an American, allow this to happen? Is being "right" enough, or do you need to be smart too?

 

[jpeyton]

Instead of going 'orange alert' on us, you guys should really calm down and entertain the idea that maybe they just A) Want Israel out of occupied territories and B) Want America to keep their grubby fingers out of the region.

But when you have us creating a war in Iraq that could keep our troops there until the next decade, with our constant threats to Iran's soveriegn rights as a nation, and of course the non-existent peace between Israel and Palestine...maybe that is the reason extremists are fighting? Could it be? They don't really want to parade through the streets of America wasting their time converting every last Christian, Jew, etc. to Islam. What could be a greater insult to their religion than forcing it on people who don't give a sh1t about it?

The paranoia in this forum is amazing. You make it sound like they are alien invaders from the movie ID4, or maybe they are Borg? :laugh: You guys crack me up.

Muslims represent about 1/6th of the world's population. Their aspirations are not to take over it, even the extremists aren't foolish enough to believe that. Yes, there are some very crazy extremist Muslims out there, but let's stop with the nonsensical guesses about their aspirations. Stop reducing this conflict down to a game of cowboys and indians.

 

[SamurAchzar]

So when Ahmadinejad claims he will lead the world against the corrupt Western way of life, he's just BSing?

Again, what should happen in order for you to consider the possibility that they mean exactly what they claim?

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar

Originally posted by: Todd33

Originally posted by: Bizzaro-SamurAchzar
Could it be, by any remote chance, that this IS the reality? That the aspirations of the Neocon radicals (and lets not pretend, they are passively supported by the general Republican public everywhere) are to unite parts of the world under the US?

What kind of information do you have that completely rules that out, to the level of confidence that you suggest we should ignore it?

See how easy that was? It's called a hypothetical. Do you have any proof that Bush is not an alien trying to take over the Earth?

I never said anything about the US, and you ARE correct. The US does impose its way of life over the rest of the world, if not by military means, then by economical (look at Cuba).
But personally, I'd rather live under American influence compared to Iranian regime. What about you?

Why don't you pick a side? It's easy to look at issues employing universal morals. For example, Iran should have nukes since Israel and the US has them! But can you, as an American, allow this to happen? Is being "right" enough, or do you need to be smart too?

The is no such thing as a universal morals, just peoples versions.

So when Ahmadinejad claims he will lead the world against the corrupt Western way of life, he's just BSing?

Yes he is. He is appeasing his people, trying to look like he is standing up to the big bad western world. They have no means to invade, destroy or do much of anything. If they had nukes they would sit on them like everyone else and use them for negotiations, just like Pakistan, India, Israel, China, etc.. It's called mutual annihilation and no one will destroy their country and people just to take a shot at us or any ally. World leaders pander and threaten, don't be naive and take them literally.

 

[novon]

The wiping of Israel off the map thing you're taking out of context from what he said. It doesn't mean Iran is planning to nuke Israel, it means they want Zionism as it exsists today to end. This could be done by Israel or US deciding to take a different approach from bombing civilians (not that it's any better when Hezbollah does it).

Religion has been abused by many political leaders to gain power and herd masses behind a cause. It's a tool to get people to fight, not the cause behind the conflict. It's no different than using the media in the US to rally support for Iraq or any of the other horendous acts the US takes.