Same here...
Going from a 4850 to a 5850 was a no-brainer... going from a 5850 to a 7850 is an upgrade, but definitely doesn't feel like it's worth the cost of the upgrade. Once prices lower I'll grab one.
Another amazing card, priced such that it's not a home run.
AMD obviously knows what they're doing here, everything higher up in nVidia's lineup than a 560Ti is really not worth consideration outside of a few corner cases. Newegg has 0 stock of 6970/6950 cards anymore, so they've done an excellent job at drawing down channel inventory and aren't competing with their own highly discounted cards.
Still, it kind of feels meh. It's a great card, the pricing makes sense, the thermals and power draw look amazing, but it's still not really that much better than the 6970 it replaces. This whole generation has kind of seemed more like a car getting a redesign for the 2013 model year. A bit better fuel economy, a little more horsepower, a couple new features, same price. Nice, but nothing that exciting. Certainly nothing like the jump we see at the same price point from Intel in CPUs. The $200-$250 space in CPUs brought us the E6400 in 2006, the i5-750 in early 2009, and the i5-2500k in early 2011. Each of those was a major increase in performance and perf/W at the same price point.
AMD obviously knows what they're doing here, everything higher up in nVidia's lineup than a 560Ti is really not worth consideration outside of a few corner cases. Newegg has 0 stock of 6970/6950 cards anymore, so they've done an excellent job at drawing down channel inventory and aren't competing with their own highly discounted cards.
Still, it kind of feels meh. It's a great card, the pricing makes sense, the thermals and power draw look amazing, but it's still not really that much better than the 6970 it replaces. This whole generation has kind of seemed more like a car getting a redesign for the 2013 model year. A bit better fuel economy, a little more horsepower, a couple new features, same price. Nice, but nothing that exciting. Certainly nothing like the jump we see at the same price point from Intel in CPUs. The $200-$250 space in CPUs brought us the E6400 in 2006, the i5-750 in early 2009, and the i5-2500k in early 2011. Each of those was a major increase in performance and perf/W at the same price point.
When I heard that the 7870 was only 1280 SP instead of 1408, I didn't think the 7870 could even match the 6970 in performance. I guess with 32 ROP's they had to keep the Pitcairn die size in check somehow, and cutting down the SP's to 1280 was really a decent option.
Amazingly … techsopt.com 7870/7850 …
..... (fps 1920x1200)..... 6970 ... 7870 ..... % faster
Aliens vs P .................... 48 ...... 42 ...... -14.3
Alan Wake .................... 46 ...... 48 ...... 4.3
BF3 .............................. 42 ...... 51 ...... 21.4
COD :MW3 ................... 80 ...... 87 ...... 8.8
Crysis 2 ........................ 26 ...... 35 ...... 34.6
Dragon Age 2 ................ 38 ...... 37 ...... -2.7
Deus Ex : HR ................ 69 ...... 74 ...... 7.2
Dirt 3 ............................ 61 ...... 68 ...... 11.5
Hard Reset .................... 52 ...... 58 ...... 11.5
Just Cause 2 ................. 42 ...... 48 ...... 14.3
King Arthur II ................ 25 ...... 29 ...... 16.0
Metro 2033 .................. 52 ...... 56 ...... 7.7
Elder Scrolls V ............... 56 ...... 63 ...... 12.5
The Witcher 2 ............... 59 ...... 63 ...... 6.8
Average ................................................ 10.0% ...faster for 7870
The 7870 averages a solid 10% faster over the 6970, and it is faster than the 580 in a few games (Alan Wake, King Arthur II, The Witcher 2) while being right at the level of the 580 performance in several other games too. Wow. Amazing.
I must say that AMD/ATI's new GCN is a great new architecture -- AMD/ATI sure knocked the GCN out of the park. If AMD can improve driver performance 5-10% in the next few months, the 7870 could be matching the 580 in performance.
Price $350 … ouch.
A little pricey, I was hoping for $299. Even $319 would have been much more palpable. At $299 this card would fly off the shelves. At $350 -- quite a few customers may balk, although it is easily a better card than the 6970 with better overclocking and much better power consumption. Hopefully the prices will drop a little soon and we'll see a 7850 1GB model come in around $200.
Amazingly … techsopt.com 7870/7850 …
..... (fps 1920x1200)..... 6970 ... 7870 ..... % faster
Aliens vs P .................... 48 ...... 42 ...... -14.3
Alan Wake .................... 46 ...... 48 ...... 4.3
BF3 .............................. 42 ...... 51 ...... 21.4
COD :MW3 ................... 80 ...... 87 ...... 8.8
Crysis 2 ........................ 26 ...... 35 ...... 34.6
Dragon Age 2 ................ 38 ...... 37 ...... -2.7
Deus Ex : HR ................ 69 ...... 74 ...... 7.2
Dirt 3 ............................ 61 ...... 68 ...... 11.5
Hard Reset .................... 52 ...... 58 ...... 11.5
Just Cause 2 ................. 42 ...... 48 ...... 14.3
King Arthur II ................ 25 ...... 29 ...... 16.0
Metro 2033 .................. 52 ...... 56 ...... 7.7
Elder Scrolls V ............... 56 ...... 63 ...... 12.5
The Witcher 2 ............... 59 ...... 63 ...... 6.8
Average ................................................ 10.0% ...faster for 7870
The 7870 averages a solid 10% faster over the 6970, and it is faster than the 580 in a few games (Alan Wake, King Arthur II, The Witcher 2) while being right at the level of the 580 performance in several other games too. Wow. Amazing.
I must say that AMD/ATI's new GCN is a great new architecture -- AMD/ATI sure knocked the GCN out of the park. If AMD can improve driver performance 5-10% in the next few months, the 7870 could be matching the 580 in performance.
Price $350 … ouch.
A little pricey, I was hoping for $299. Even $319 would have been much more palpable. At $299 this card would fly off the shelves. At $350 -- quite a few customers may balk, although it is easily a better card than the 6970 with better overclocking and much better power consumption. Hopefully the prices will drop a little soon and we'll see a 7850 1GB model come in around $200.
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7850 is not in the same category as those cards in thier respective time periods. The 7950 is.
I don't know how you can't see it. Anand used a stock 770mhz gtx 580 in his testing against a 1000mhz 7870. Add 20% to both.
I'm more interested what it does to the value of a 450.00$ 800mhz 7950.
The gtx 580/570 has been around for 15 months.
You can't because the GTX580 does not clock 20%. With volt mods it reaches about 10% where as the 7870 with volt mods reaches 27.5% and still uses hardly any power (less than a 6870 stock).
Assuming perfect scaling for each:
72.38 FPS for the 580
74.2 FPS for the 7870
So even cherry picking the game with the largest difference, at best the 580 would manage to match the 7870, at worst it would be beaten soundly.
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900 core 580 is what, ~20% OC?
7870 already does 20% OC no vcore, probably end up around 1.3ghz with vcore. Both scale well with OC, so no, it won't stomp, it will probably lose.
400W vs 140W OC. Sorry, old gen is old.
Arachnotronic
Lifer
- Mar 10, 2006
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My 580 runs at 925 up from 772 which is...19.8% overclock. But yeah, it's older tech, and of course if I were buying new today and didn't care about compatibility with my weird corner-case games, I'd totally be on the AMD-train.
NVIDIA, I can't believe you're *this* late to the game. Again.
NVIDIA, I can't believe you're *this* late to the game. Again.
Hah, oops, forgot the lightning had a small factory OC.
So 78FPS for the 580, a slight lead at best, and most games they were a lot closer.
So 78FPS for the 580, a slight lead at best, and most games they were a lot closer.
Woah there.. i think you missed quite a few CPUs in that price range, which brought minimal improvements. The trend continues today, with IvB being barely faster as to be negligible. Both hit around 5ghz OC and the only saving race of IvB is using less power, by a TINY amount.
It's CPUs which have be lacklustre, not GPUs.
The entire HD 7000 series would be so much more appealing to people if they had an across the board $50 price cut lol.
EDIT: Scratch that the HD 7950 is way to close to the HD 7870, that one would need a 100 price cut.
EDIT: Scratch that the HD 7950 is way to close to the HD 7870, that one would need a 100 price cut.
These look like they could be a great deal when prices drop a bit, Also the 7850 could be even better overclocking if they remove the max OC limit.
Otherwise they just look meh for the price. But they are new and NVidia should be releasing something soon. So I hope they are trying to get the most out of their cards while they can. And in a month or two prices may drop, if they don't have supply issues.
Otherwise they just look meh for the price. But they are new and NVidia should be releasing something soon. So I hope they are trying to get the most out of their cards while they can. And in a month or two prices may drop, if they don't have supply issues.
The 7870 is quite impressive to me. Yes, I agree the performance improvement from gen to gen isn't huge and the price is a bit overpriced for now. But seriously, I'm an engineer and I look at this and see: GTX580 performance on a 212mm die size. That is around 2.5x smaller than a GTX580. You can't say that isn't an achievement!
I believe these will sell quite well in about two months if they hit <300$.
I believe these will sell quite well in about two months if they hit <300$.
Given the ridiculous numbers of CPUs released, it would impossible to list every one in the 200-250 space. I was just pointing out that with the release of a new arch, Intel managed to bring big improvements with each new generation. Each of the ones I listed was a launch chip for the new arch.
last year at this time it was still almost 400 for a 6970.
now for 350 you get 10%+ more performance, lower power usage, and less heat.
and its ouch?
its not as awesome as last december when 5870's were 200 bucks, and 695's0 were about 275-300 with loads of MIR's floating around, but its certainly great compared to the 79xx launch #'s
unlikely. 200 or so for a 6950 and maybe 250 for a 6970.....700 for 2x7870
Powermoloch
Lifer
- Jul 5, 2005
- 10,084
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formulav8
Diamond Member
- Sep 18, 2000
- 7,004
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I just don't see these pricing problems. They're priced to have more bang than nvidia's compets. The 6970 was $400 or $450 or something when released? The 7870 is $350 when its released. The 7870 is faster overall. More features better thermals, ect... So.... What is the problem here? 
The 6970 was $370 at release...
These cards are much better in terms of pricing and performance. I'd almost say AMD might shoot themselves in the foot by stealing sales from the 79xx cards because these cheaper cards come close. In my opinion, unless you are running 2560x or multi-monitor (or perhaps a 120Hz monitor) there is no reason to go for a 79xx card over a 78xx card. Now its a waiting game to see if Nvidia's release can help push prices down.
These cards are much better in terms of pricing and performance. I'd almost say AMD might shoot themselves in the foot by stealing sales from the 79xx cards because these cheaper cards come close. In my opinion, unless you are running 2560x or multi-monitor (or perhaps a 120Hz monitor) there is no reason to go for a 79xx card over a 78xx card. Now its a waiting game to see if Nvidia's release can help push prices down.
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Termie
Diamond Member
I just don't see these pricing problems. They're priced to have more bang than nvidia's compets. The 6970 was $400 or $450 or something when released? The 7870 is $350 when its released. The 7870 is faster overall. More features better thermals, ect... So.... What is the problem here?
Accuracy matters here. 6970 was $369.
Proof: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4061/amds-radeon-hd-6970-radeon-hd-6950
I've never seen a 6970 for over $400.
I am of the belief that this is one of the worst moments in GPU history when it comes to price/performance improvements year-to-year. Honestly, I've never seen a better argument for buying last-gen parts for cheap.
A year ago, they were asking you to pay $500+ for these levels of performance, now you get to pay $350, whats not to like?
I paid a more than $369 for my 6970 at launch from newegg.
Also good luck finding any 6900 cards new at a decent price. They were already supply limited by AMD.
Also good luck finding any 6900 cards new at a decent price. They were already supply limited by AMD.
The only two questions left for me is how will the retail prices of a 7870 be with a good open air cooler, a 370+ 7870 wouldnt sit well with me, and second is Kepler if the rummored paper launch of march 12th is true, it could be interesting.
It's sad we are back to paper launch versus paper launch though, but at this point I want to see something from Nvidia to get a handle on how this gen of cards will stack up
It's sad we are back to paper launch versus paper launch though, but at this point I want to see something from Nvidia to get a handle on how this gen of cards will stack up
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