R600 Delayed for simultaneous launch

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: josh6079

I can't wait for "akshayt" to get a R600, if it has a bug he will sure find it.

And if it doesn't, he'll make one.

I'm sure he will....but the AT Video forum will never hear of it from him

Look up Akshayt on the AT wiki who's who

 

[josh6079]

I'm sure he will....but the AT Video forum will never hear of it from him

Are you being sarcastic or did something happen that I missed?

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: josh6079

I'm sure he will....but the AT Video forum will never hear of it from him

Are you being sarcastic or did something happen that I missed?

you must have missed something...he's been banned for nearly 2 months now...he got a 2 week vacation for being a turd...as usual, and then made a short comeback as "Techboi"...but his annoying posting style and preferences for A64 3200+ winchesters and X1900XTX's gave him away and he was sent on a voyage abourd the SS Garbage Scow to permaban Island.

 

[josh6079]

LOL!!

Oh man I can't believe I missed that! Now we won't have someone to complain about R600 problems, whether they be legit or not.

I've been so involved with this MMORPG of mine that I've used Anandtech less and less. Sorry if I seem out of the loop.

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: Matt2
If R600 is ready, freakin launch it ...

"We pushed out the launch of the R600 and people thought is must be a silicon or software problem?it's got to be a bug," said Dave Orton, president and chief executiveof ATI. "In fact, our mainstream chips are in 65nm and are coming out extremely fast. Because of that configuration, we have an interesting opportunity to come to market with a broader range of products, " he explained.

"Instead of having them separate, we thought, lets line that up, so we delayed for several weeks," Orton continued, referring to the R600 family as a whole, which AMD now says will come out at the same time (a matter of weeks as opposed to months, according to Richard) instead of just the high-end version.

I think he is lying through his teeth, they know they messed up!

I think this is their way to stop making excuses and start taking responsibility on their muddle, I believe this is just AMD attempt to compensate on the multiple delays.

I read (mostly between the lines, the bolded part) the above quote as something like:

AMD: "yeah, we messed up the R600 launch so we gonna take the time it take to fix the R600 and make our mainstream products at the same go, we are gonna make it right by giving you both high-end and mainstream to choose from at the final, real, launch."

And btw, don?t underestimate the "power" of mid-range cards, not only to consumer (the whole range of them), but also OEMs and other system builders.

I just hope for their sake they won't blunder this one also.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss

Originally posted by: BassBomb
I hope their midrange is good, I've never seen them as good buys

Uh? My 9500 Pro was a fantastic midrange buy. Overclocked past nominal 9700 Pro levels and only started to get long in the tooth last year.

As previously stated, the 9500p was ATI's only really attractive midrange product. The 9600, X600s, X700, and X1600s were all fairly disappointing.

I'm not sure where you figure a 9500p got 'long in the tooth' last year. You must either not play games or game at 640x480 resolutions.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Zebo
BS detector is pinned on this. Even if it were true why not release something anything 3d even in closed environment to stave off NV sales assault? High-end ATI cards like x1950xtx arnt selling so it's not like they are going to cannibalize themselves doing so, it can only help if they had better product which they don't.

Agreed. It would make sense to "accidentally" leak a ton of benchmarks to cause many of the video card shoppers to at least hold onto their cash until you could release. I think its kind of BS too, its possible since AMD would have a different take on this game I suppose.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Matt2
I dont believe anything AMD tells us about R600 at this point.

ATI always launched their flagship before the lower tier cards, I dont see why now would be any different.

I just dont see the point in launching the entire line at the same time. If R600 is ready, freakin launch it and show the world that you can beat Nvidia. That will start the buzz about your mid-range line.

And why is AMD showing off R600 number crunching teraflops instead of showing it off pushing pixels. It just doesnt add up. It's almost like AMD is trying to get the server market excited about being able to push teraflops in order to take our attention away from its inability to beat G80 in 3D apps. Throw in the fact that every time R600 is delayed it creeps closer to Barcelona, I just cant shake the feeling that Barcelona + R600 is targeted towards the server market.

Isnt that parts of AMDs long term picture? Were they talking about 4-16 core CPU's that will have vector, streaming, GPUs, CPUs ect on a single die? And you can pick and choose what you need for your task? Say you are running a high end number crunching application. You grab a streaming or vector unit x2, and 2 CPU cores.

Maybe by showing these cards doing this function they are showing it as a proof of concept?

 

[thilanliyan]

Maybe the card shines in DX10 performance but is not so great with DX9 (or at least inferior to G80).

When's the first DX10 capable game coming out?

 

[apoppin]

"We pushed out the launch of the R600 and people thought is must be a silicon or software problem?it's got to be a bug," said Dave Orton, [Executive VP, Visual and Media Businesses, AMD]. "In fact, our mainstream chips are in 65nm and are coming out extremely fast. Because of that configuration, we have an interesting opportunity to come to market with a broader range of products," he explained.

Marketing BS

*extremely fast*

they talk the talk
:thumbsdown:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2099613,00.asp

he R600 family and "Barcelona" quad-core design are still on track for release during the first and second half of this year, respectively.

translation r600 by July and Barcelona by January

Barcelona will yield 42 percent better "floating-point" performance than Intel's Xeon X5355 Clovertown in SPEC_fp benchmark tests.

For SPEC_int, which measures integer-processing tasks, Barcelona will have a leg up on Clovertown again with a performance advantage of more than 10 percent, Rivas said.

"There's speculation about what's going on with CPU business," said Henri Richard, AMD's executive vice president and chief sales and marketing officer. "Where's Barcelona? I can tell you it's more of a killer product than anyone thought. I'm not bragging. I know what we've got."

translation of course ASSUMING intel will be sitting on its butt like AMD did with A-64

While Richard admitted that business is tough at the moment he said he's confident that AMD is "in a great position going forward."

To prove it, AMD demonstrated a "Teraflop in a Box" system running a standard version of Microsoft Windows XP Professional that harnessed the power of AMD Opteron dual-core processor technology and two next-generation AMD R600 Stream Processors capable of performing more than 1 trillion floating-point calculations per second using a general "multiply-add" (MADD) calculation.

translation r600 crunches numbers on XP - forget Vista ... the FUTURE looks "great" --even if we can't demostrate it runnning a game in Vista

"Instead of having them separate, we thought, lets line that up, so we delayed for several weeks," Orton continued, referring to the R600 family as a whole, which AMD now says will come out at the same time (a matter of weeks as opposed to months, according to Richard) instead of just the high-end version.

The R600 will be called Radeon x2900 and will be available in XTX (top of the line), XT, and XL variants.

No firm date was ever given for the R600, but last week AMD did admit that the card had been delayed, giving no other reason than to say that the company was "repositioning the card."

translation Here's some PR *repositioning* smoke ... blow it up your--Ask again?

Wednesday's briefing also took a contentious turn with Richard briefly lashing out at competitor Intel and what he characterized as that company's "marketing gamesmanship" and lack of honesty.

"I'm going to be straight," Richard told the audience, "I think we've been too quiet."

"I'm sick and tired of being pushed around by a competitor who doesn't respect fair and open competition," he added, making clear reference to AMD's larger competitor and what he claimed to be skewed comparisons in integer-specific benchmark tests between the two company's latest CPU offerings.

The reality, Richard claimed, is that dual-core AMD Opteron products are not only competitive with Intel's offerings, but actually lead on some integer-specific benchmarks, adding that the notion that 45-nm process is inherently better than the 65nm process is ridiculous.

McCarron said he agrees to an extent. "People are buying a product based on things like power and performance," he said. "To a degree, the process used to create it is immaterial."

"All benchmarks are valid and all benchmarks are invalid," McCarron added. "Generally, they don't compare like configurations. You pick your best against your competitors worst. It's a very emotional topic. You have engineering specs that are very black and white that are being used in benchmark market that isn't coherent. That gets the people who care about the black and white really upset."

is he a complete idiot? --they make AMD look *worse* with their stupid EXCUSES
:thumbsdown:

"All benchmarks are valid and all benchmarks are invalid"
:roll:

AMD is LOST

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: kobymu

And btw, don?t underestimate the "power" of mid-range cards, not only to consumer (the whole range of them), but also OEMs and other system builders.

I just hope for their sake they won't blunder this one also.

Yes but the problem here is, if NVIDIA gets their mid range and low end out the door before the AMD "simultaneous launch". They will once again lose sales and market share.

So instead of one big happy launch. It will be looked at as "soooo last month".

Also if the R600 was out, when people ask "what's a really good card to get" you could tell them either a R600 or a G80. Right now you really only have one choice and from what I have seen they are making that choice no problem.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: eklock2000
...am I missing something here?

Question 1 - why would they not launch the high end cards first?

Question 2 - why would I want to buy a 1000W PSU and a new case (12.5" Cards) to run crossfire - $2000 price tag, when I can get two 8800GTXs for close to $1,000 and use a good 600W PSU with no new case?

I don't think ATI has a prayer.

If you're seriously considering 8800gtx SLI or r600 Crossfire, then the price is probably not of major concern to you. And if you're not, then there are people who will pay that much just to have the best/fastest hardware. In either case, most of the moneey AMD makes on video cards will be from the midrange and low end hardware, not r600 Crossfire.

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
*snip*

When i say midrange I mean 100$ - 200$, this, and the low end segment is important to all those who buy a pre-built system, and stay with it for a good 2-3 years, aka the majority of customers (hence the importance of these cards to OEMs and smaller system builders).

No 8xxx cards at this price range as of today

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: kobymu

Originally posted by: Wreckage
*snip*

When i say midrange I mean 100$ - 200$, this, and the low end segment is important to all those who buy a pre-built system, and stay with it for a good 2-3 years, aka the majority of customers (hence the importance of these cards to OEMs and smaller system builders).

No 8xxx cards at this price range as of today

Mid range hasnt been 100-200 dollars for years.

Mid range has been 150-250/300. sub 150 dollar cards are low end base cards.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: eklock2000
...am I missing something here?

Question 1 - why would they not launch the high end cards first?

Question 2 - why would I want to buy a 1000W PSU and a new case (12.5" Cards) to run crossfire - $2000 price tag, when I can get two 8800GTXs for close to $1,000 and use a good 600W PSU with no new case?

I don't think ATI has a prayer.

If you're seriously considering 8800gtx SLI or r600 Crossfire, then the price is probably not of major concern to you. And if you're not, then there are people who will pay that much just to have the best/fastest hardware. In either case, most of the moneey AMD makes on video cards will be from the midrange and low end hardware, not r600 Crossfire.

what you seem to be missing ... IF AMD *doesn't* release r600 shortly, no one will CARE about the midrange ... they are THAT far behind

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: apoppin
what you seem to be missing ... IF AMD *doesn't* release r600 shortly, no one will CARE about the midrange ... they are THAT far behind

How do you know they're behind and not actually ahead? Do you have access to RV630 and RV610 benchmarks versus 8600 and 8300? No, of course you don't.

Honestly apoppin, you're starting to let yourself get as sensationalistic as Fuad.

 

[kobymu]

Mid range hasnt been 100-200 dollars for years.

Mid range has been 150-250/300. sub 150 dollar cards are low end base cards.

To gamers, the discrete video cards market and all the web site that review them, yes, you are correct.

However, to all the rest of them, those who don?t regularly keep track of the latest news and/or check out internet reviews prior of purchasing a new system, for these people anything above 200$ IS high-range.

I'm talking about people who install the drivers of the video card from the CD which came with video card.

http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: apoppin
what you seem to be missing ... IF AMD *doesn't* release r600 shortly, no one will CARE about the midrange ... they are THAT far behind

How do you know they're behind and not actually ahead? Do you have access to RV630 and RV610 benchmarks versus 8600 and 8300? No, of course you don't.

Honestly apoppin, you're starting to let yourself get as sensationalistic as Fuad.

IF they were "ahead" we'd see some product
[nevermind *benchmarks* of a paper product] :lips:


and you haven't changed a bit ... from a total fanboy

"maybe AMD is ahead"

uh-huh ... sure ...

:roll:

 

[Creig]

I'm sorry apoppin, but I like to base my opinions on facts as often as possible. And the facts so far are that ATI is late and there are no reliable benchmarks to point at. Yet you somehow come up with "they are THAT far behind" and use "IF they were "ahead" we'd see some product" as your proof of lack of performance?

Fuad would be proud of you.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Creig
I'm sorry apoppin, but I like to base my opinions on facts as often as possible. And the facts so far are that ATI is late and there are no reliable benchmarks to point at. Yet you somehow come up with "they are THAT far behind" and use "IF they were "ahead" we'd see some product" as your proof?

Fuad would be proud of you.

i know you'd *like* to

you just never do

kinda like the company you worship

they'd *like to* have r600 right now

:roll:

ATi IS proud of you ... but you should be *sorry* ... OF COURSE there are "no benchmarks" ... AMD has NO new Product [period] to benchmark

and they ae throwing up a HUGE smokescreen to confuse the issue - they are *LATE* and they have nothing to show .. that is *beyond obvious* to 90% of us

--but evidently they succeeded with you

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: Creig
I'm sorry apoppin, but I like to base my opinions on facts as often as possible. And the facts so far are that ATI is late and there are no reliable benchmarks to point at. Yet you somehow come up with "they are THAT far behind" and use "IF they were "ahead" we'd see some product" as your proof of lack of performance?

A move to consolidate the launch of the mid-range with the high-end card is IMHO a good move but if AMD has a working, ready to be launched product now they are doing bad business by not launching it.

This move, from a business PoV, should come as a preplanned move/strategy, no as a "fix it" to a failure to meet launched dates (that AMD themselves has publicly announced, mind you), but above all it shouldn?t happen when they are behind the competition, and they are behind the competition and not by a little margin.

I don?t know about you but if this whole thing is true (holding back a ready to be launched product) this seems to my like AMD are not following basic business practices, as in they are not doing what is best for their bottom line, short distance AND long distance (losing reputation, brand value and recognition, and all that staff).

p.s. apoppin didn?t say anything about performances.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Creig
I'm sorry apoppin, but I like to base my opinions on facts as often as possible. And the facts so far are that ATI is late and there are no reliable benchmarks to point at. Yet you somehow come up with "they are THAT far behind" and use "IF they were "ahead" we'd see some product" as your proof?

Fuad would be proud of you.

i know you'd *like* to

you just never do

kinda like the company you worship

they'd *like to* have r600 right now

:roll:

ATi IS proud of you ... but you should be *sorry* ... OF COURSE there are "no benchmarks" ... AMD has NO new Product [period] to benchmark

and they ae throwing up a HUGE smokescreen to confuse the issue - they are *LATE* and they have nothing to show .. that is *beyond obvious* to 90% of us

--but evidently they succeeded with you

???? I've already stated that ATI is late, I think we can all agree on that. What I'm NOT agreeing on is that "they have nothing to show" compared to its Nvidia counterpart. We have no benchmarks to go by, yet you're convinced without anything other than a delay as proof.

Show me some actual proof that this is true and I might change my opinion. But as far as I'm concerned whoever will be crowned victor has yet to be determined.

Apparently to you fanboys are those people who actually require proof of something before making a decision one way or the other. But don't let that stop you. By all means, keep spreading your Fuad.

Oh, and in case you didn't know, "they have nothing to show.. that is *beyond obvious* to 90% of us" = more Fuad.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Creig
I'm sorry apoppin, but I like to base my opinions on facts as often as possible. And the facts so far are that ATI is late and there are no reliable benchmarks to point at. Yet you somehow come up with "they are THAT far behind" and use "IF they were "ahead" we'd see some product" as your proof?

Fuad would be proud of you.

i know you'd *like* to

you just never do

kinda like the company you worship

they'd *like to* have r600 right now

:roll:

ATi IS proud of you ... but you should be *sorry* ... OF COURSE there are "no benchmarks" ... AMD has NO new Product [period] to benchmark

and they ae throwing up a HUGE smokescreen to confuse the issue - they are *LATE* and they have nothing to show .. that is *beyond obvious* to 90% of us

--but evidently they succeeded with you

???? I've already stated that ATI is late, I think we can all agree on that. What I'm NOT agreeing on is that "they have nothing to show" compared to its Nvidia counterpart. We have no benchmarks to go by, yet you're convinced without anything other than a delay as proof.

Show me some actual proof that this is true and I might change my opinion. But as far as I'm concerned whoever will be crowned victor has yet to be determined.

Apparently to you fanboys are those people who actually require proof of something before making a decision one way or the other. But don't let that stop you. By all means, keep spreading your Fuad.

Oh, and in case you didn't know, "they have nothing to show.. that is *beyond obvious* to 90% of us" = more Fuad.

of course you speak for 90% of ATi fanboys ... we know

AMD *admits* they are LATE ... you'd better agree[period] ...
so its isn't like you are making a "concession" to me

you are saying ATi HAS "something" to show?
:Q

heck, lets *see* it

where's the beef?

nvidia ^wins^ - by DEFAULT ...

. . . UNTIL AMD releases a competitive product ... they have nothing but their d*ck in their hands and it is really embarrassing ... to the rest of us.

*Proof* ... the proof is in the LACK of product
:roll:

 

[Matt2]

Originally posted by: apoppin
. . . UNTIL AMD releases a competitive product ... they have nothing but their d*ck in their hands and it is really embarrassing ... to the rest of us.

*Proof* ... the proof is in the LACK of product

ROFL.

Oh so true.

AMD allowed ZDnet to show R600 Crossfire pushing a teraflop, why not show some damn benchmarks?

The answer is, their product is not competitive.

 

[liquid51]

Well, not being a fanboy of either NV or ATI, and looking to upgrade soon (as in, when I actually have some options available), I'm going to be putting my money where the best offering lies. If ATI is late as hell and way behind the competition (which, they are), but can offer a higher performing card, then they'll get my money. I don't care about how much of the market they're losing this go around (because face it, AMD/ATI is NOT "finished"); their business practices are not my concern provided they can offer some competition. In that sense, ATI "wins" (at least my $600).

I understand this model doesn't work for the uninformed general public looking to buy a low-mid range product, or those who are impatient and need the best right now, or even if I was in the market for a high end part 3 months ago, but like I said: that's AMD's problem, not mine. You know there's plenty of [non NV fanboy] AT posters ragging on AMD/ATI over this debacle who will sell their 8800's in a heart beat if the r600 really is all they make it out to be (provided the 8900 doesn't slip out of NV's sleeve at an opportune moment )

I think anyone looking to buy a high end part would be a fool to purchase now and not sit this out, wait for the dust to settle.