RocksteadyDotNet
Diamond Member
- Jul 29, 2008
- 3,152
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Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
As is usually said, the burden of proof is to prove that something does exist.
I see no evidence that requires God, and frankly, if the God of the Bible existed, I'd be pretty scared. He's moody, he acts like a spoiled child, he's always called "mysterious," questioning him merits eternal punishment, and he's a bigot, among other things. At best, he's uncaring, at worst, sadistic.
The whole original sin BS is just stupid. "YOU did something wrong, but I'm going to punish all of your humanity for your misdeeds." I'm glad our justice system isn't based on that, or most of the human population would be in jail or exiled. "Sorry kid, your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather killed someone else. Life sentence for you. Next case!"
The 10 Commandments also don't seem to have any disclaimers. It's "Do not kill," not "Do not kill.*" So everyone who's killed another person in war is going to Hell? And in war, both sides often say "God is on our side." Who's right?
sorry, but this is some vague garbage.
do you realize that these subjects have been studied and written about for centuries? you must think you're real smart for figuring it all out....
timosyy
Golden Member
- Dec 19, 2003
- 1,822
- 0
- 0
Believing one or the other is inherently unknowable makes you an agnostic according to wikipedia
Also, all of the posts by a certain atheist in this thread have been making me laugh... haha. /sigh. If it were a religious person making those points in the reverse with that atrocious grammar/spelling & self-important ego this would be like a 10-page flamefest
My recommendation would be for you to:
1) Go get a recent translation of the New Testament, like an NIV or NLT, or even better a parallel text with several translation versions for comparison.
2) Preferably a text which specifically highlights (color, bolding, or some other marking) the spoken words of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, so you can easily spot them on the page vs words of a prophet or writer.
3) Preferably a text that has lengthy footnotes and/or a "Study Bible" version that will on each page explain archaic terms, measurement and monetary units, and verses of early/late origin based on the context of the book/chapter/verse on that page.
4) Preferably a text which *always* capitalizes the pronoun He if the person is God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit.
All the above really won't take long, just 30 minutes in a good bookstore or Christian shop. Now go somewhere where you are alone, pray for God to reveal himself to you, and go through and read in Matthew/Mark/Luke/John only the words that Jesus spoke. This won't take very long, maybe 30-45 minutes at the most.
Read what Jesus said, and take His words into your heart. You don't need religion or church or any of that stuff to begin a real relationship with Him. :sun:
RocksteadyDotNet
Diamond Member
- Jul 29, 2008
- 3,152
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So
Lifer
- Jul 2, 2001
- 25,923
- 17
- 81
As an atheist, I think that the best comment was one that was repeated in the comments of a blog post about how people became atheists. As a child, around 6 or 7, this kid asked his father about religion, and some claims that seemed contradictory to him. His father responded "You know, you don't have to believe in god" -- and he didn't.
There are a million reasons why it would be awfully convenient if there were a god, but there is no good reason to think that there is one. Your family might be angry, but you can't make yourself believe in something that you simply don't think is real. If you're still living under your parent's roof, you can still go through the motions for their sake.
Hell, I'm 100% an atheist, but I go to midnight mass every december 24th, because I'm home for the holiday and I appreciate that it will make my mother happy. If it will make more trouble than it's worth, play along for your parent's sake, that doesn't mean you have to believe, and it doesn't mean it has to make sense (religion generally doesn't).
AstroManLuca
Lifer
- Jun 24, 2004
- 15,628
- 5
- 81
I've actually done this. Well, sort of. I read about half of Luke on the recommendation of a religious friend, focusing on what Jesus said and did. It didn't really have any meaning for me. It certainly wasn't the violent smite-fest that is the Old Testament, but I just don't see what makes Jesus so special. I think a lot of philosophers have much more compelling messages, and on top of that, you can actually read what they themselves wrote (whereas with Jesus, you're always hearing a secondhand account that has been changed a lot over time).
On top of that, don't some of the central beliefs of Christianity revolve around things like sin, the virgin birth, Jesus dying and being resurrected, and the trinity and all that holy ghost business? None of that ever made any sense to me. It seems like a fairy tale.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
Or hell, Carl Sagan. The guy had exceptional compassion for humanity, and for our future. The last episode of Cosmos was a great testament to this. He worried about nuclear weapons because of their ability to destroy, and their ability to affect every last person on the planet. He said that people on Earth are like a single organism, and "an organism divided against itself can never survive." Or speaking of an image from Voyager of the "pale blue dot" we live on, "To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."
Yes, an atheist. You don't need some "deity" to want to wish humanity all the best, or to do it just because he says so, or because he'll send you to a bad, burning place for ever and ever if you don't do the sometimes-contradictory, cryptic, frequently misinterpreted things he says.
The Force is strong with this one...
Who said anything about pretending, you might hear voices but I don't. All non-believers are the greatest ignorants ever walked on earth, that I know for sure, merely because they even lack the tiniest bit of temperament to find out if there is more, they lack judgmental skills, they do not have capacity to analyze themselves, merely flaming their arguments based on scientific research done by other great people...they also happen to be lazy whose minds do not get fixed on any idea, I try ignore those people who take mysteries of nature as a entertainment package because they've got nothing better to do in their lives.
I am extremely thankful am not like that....
RocksteadyDotNet
Diamond Member
- Jul 29, 2008
- 3,152
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Originally posted by: timosyy
Believing one or the other is inherently unknowable makes you an agnostic according to wikipedia
Also, all of the posts by a certain atheist in this thread have been making me laugh... haha. /sigh. If it were a religious person making those points in the reverse with that atrocious grammar/spelling & self-important ego this would be like a 10-page flamefest
"Philosophers such as Antony Flew[35] and Michael Martin[24] have contrasted strong (positive) atheism with weak (negative) atheism. Strong atheism is the explicit affirmation that gods do not exist. Weak atheism includes all other forms of non-theism. According to this categorization, anyone who is not a theist is either a weak or a strong atheist.[36] The terms weak and strong are relatively recent; however, the equivalent terms negative and positive atheism have been used in the philosophical literature[35] and (in a slightly different sense) in Catholic apologetics.[37] Under this demarcation of atheism, most agnostics qualify as weak atheists.
While agnosticism can be seen as a form of weak atheism,[38] most agnostics see their view as distinct from atheism, which they may consider no more justified than theism, or requires an equal conviction.[39] The supposed unattainability of knowledge for or against the existence of gods is sometimes seen as indication that atheism requires a leap of faith.[40] Common atheist responses to this argument include that unproven religious propositions deserve as much disbelief as all other unproven propositions,[41] and that the unprovability of a god's existence does not imply equal probability of either possibility.[42] Scottish philosopher J. J. C. Smart even argues that "sometimes a person who is really an atheist may describe herself, even passionately, as an agnostic because of unreasonable generalised philosophical scepticism which would preclude us from saying that we know anything whatever, except perhaps the truths of mathematics and formal logic."[43] Consequently, some popular atheist authors such as Richard Dawkins prefer distinguishing theist, agnostic and atheist positions by the probability assigned to the statement "God exists".[44]"
- Wiki
MidasKnight
Diamond Member
- Apr 24, 2004
- 3,288
- 0
- 76
Two options :
1.) You die and instantly you are aware and go into what ever the after life is.
2.) You die . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
1.) You die and instantly you are aware and go into what ever the after life is.
2.) You die . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Throckmorton
Lifer
- Aug 23, 2007
- 16,829
- 3
- 0
You don't have to be on the fence about your origin, because every piece of evidence paints a detailed picture of evolution, including human evolution.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
And there's no shame in saying we came from ape-like ancestors, or if you go back far enough, "organic slime." We're not either of those things anymore. We've accomplished a great deal, and have come very far, but we also can see now just how much more there is to possibly be done. Where our path goes is up to us.
meltdown75
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2004
- 37,548
- 7
- 81
so do you also lose respect for people wearing a cross or any other visible representation of their faith? that's very sad that you lose respect for someone based on their beliefs. i knew you were anti-religion but i didn't think you were anti-people.
Religion is not based on faith, in fact no man can be religious until he experiences certain truths himself. Blind believers are only learners trying to grasp higher spiritual facts.
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