Question for religious people

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Crono
Hypotheticals like this are pointless, because it won't happen. Not a real spacecraft and not real aliens, anyway.

That's what they said about sailing around the world, flying, and breaking the sound barrier.

It's also what I said about flying monkeys with rocket launchers appearing over a giant cloud of marshmallows in NYC, while simultaneously leprechauns are handing out gold coins and Lucky Charms to every man, woman, and child in America. I'm still waiting on that one.

Okay, do you believe that Lock Ness monster, Big Foot, Yeti's, Chucacabra, etc. exist?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
Inspired by my post in here http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=38&threadid=2229354

Lets say an alien space craft lands tomorrow (think of when Vulcans land on Earth, or some other alien first contact situation and not a government coverup deal). What will the Pope say about we are unique and created by "God"? What will every major religion do about humanity being unique and created by "God"?

Well it wouldn't be that big of a deal doctrine-wise. There is no Biblical passage saying life is limited to earth. The fact would still remain that the earth is uniquely suited to human life. No Christian doubts God could create aliens if he chose.

The uniqueness principle which may be taught is more of an inference from the Bible's silence on any other creatures outside Earth. Plus the fact that Jesus' death paid for an infinite amount of sin, means that any sinful inhabitants of other worlds would be unaware of Christ's sacrifice here on Earth. And Christ would ostensibly have to die on each other planet in redundant and superfluous events just to give the 'aliens' a heads up on the divine sacrifice.

The Pope is powerless and irrelevant. There is no earthly head of the church. Christ is the head and he's no longer residing here. The Pope's existence is unbiblical and why Catholics persist in appointing one is basically tradition and pretty much heretical.

This has always puzzled me too. I would have imagined that the Catholic church have evolved by now, but I guess there was too much power in the institution, after all it is man-made.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer
How would that scenario refute that we are not "unique" or that God created us?

How wouldn't it?

That doesn't make any sense. Obviously the races are unique (by location if not physiology). What is to prevent all of humanity from being created by God if aliens exist? That is illogical.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
Can I ask where your shred of evidence is for "God"?

Exhibit A

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
Inspired by my post in here http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=38&threadid=2229354

Lets say an alien space craft lands tomorrow (think of when Vulcans land on Earth, or some other alien first contact situation and not a government coverup deal). What will the Pope say about we are unique and created by "God"? What will every major religion do about humanity being unique and created by "God"?

Well it wouldn't be that big of a deal doctrine-wise. There is no Biblical passage saying life is limited to earth. The fact would still remain that the earth is uniquely suited to human life. No Christian doubts God could create aliens if he chose.

The uniqueness principle which may be taught is more of an inference from the Bible's silence on any other creatures outside Earth. Plus the fact that Jesus' death paid for an infinite amount of sin, means that any sinful inhabitants of other worlds would be unaware of Christ's sacrifice here on Earth. And Christ would ostensibly have to die on each other planet in redundant and superfluous events just to give the 'aliens' a heads up on the divine sacrifice.

The Pope is powerless and irrelevant. There is no earthly head of the church. Christ is the head and he's no longer residing here. The Pope's existence is unbiblical and why Catholics persist in appointing one is basically tradition and pretty much heretical.

This has always puzzled me too. I would have imagined that the Catholic church have evolved by now, but I guess there was too much power in the institution, after all it is man-made.

Hmm..sort of like a book of myths/tales/stories that you worship?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: JS80
If they are teaching about love, respect, forgiveness, which is what Jesus taught, then no it's not child abuse. If they are teaching to kill Jews and bomb children, then yes it's child abuse.

What about teaching kids to ignore scientific progress in favor of ideas like creationism? Every youth group I attended as a teenager was vehemently against topics like evolution and even went so far as to congratulate students that refused spoke out against evolution in biology class and other academic arenas. Are such levels of intellectual dishonesty a form of child abuse?

I wouldn't call it "child abuse" but if my child came back from Jesus camp spouting the world is 5000 years old I would never send him back. This is why I avoid churches in general. It's a man made institution and is fallible. Sometimes people abuse the power. When in doubt just go to the source (the Bible).

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus
Inspired by my post in here http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=38&threadid=2229354

Lets say an alien space craft lands tomorrow (think of when Vulcans land on Earth, or some other alien first contact situation and not a government coverup deal). What will the Pope say about we are unique and created by "God"? What will every major religion do about humanity being unique and created by "God"?

Well it wouldn't be that big of a deal doctrine-wise. There is no Biblical passage saying life is limited to earth. The fact would still remain that the earth is uniquely suited to human life. No Christian doubts God could create aliens if he chose.

The uniqueness principle which may be taught is more of an inference from the Bible's silence on any other creatures outside Earth. Plus the fact that Jesus' death paid for an infinite amount of sin, means that any sinful inhabitants of other worlds would be unaware of Christ's sacrifice here on Earth. And Christ would ostensibly have to die on each other planet in redundant and superfluous events just to give the 'aliens' a heads up on the divine sacrifice.

The Pope is powerless and irrelevant. There is no earthly head of the church. Christ is the head and he's no longer residing here. The Pope's existence is unbiblical and why Catholics persist in appointing one is basically tradition and pretty much heretical.

This has always puzzled me too. I would have imagined that the Catholic church have evolved by now, but I guess there was too much power in the institution, after all it is man-made.

Hmm..sort of like a book of myths/tales/stories that you worship?

Straw man much?

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: JS80
There's a lot of dumb people here who think they are "smart" by logically rejecting "God" which ironically proves their idiocy.

What....the.....wow.

What do you call talking to yourself at night, asking for things to magically happen for you?

Once again, proof that you have no understanding of God and only know what you see on TV.

So do you agree with this?

What am I agreeing/disagreeing with? Selective clips from a Jesus Camp and not one thing about the substance of what they are teaching there.

Do you believe what you see in those clips is child abuse?

Do you believe the little muslim kids with fake suicide belts as toys is an example of child abuse?

The clips don't show details of exactly what they are teaching. I do know that in Muslim camps they teach to hate and kill Jews and Christians. They say they are pigs that should be slaughtered. No camp that teaches what Jesus teaches would be even close to that. Are they teaching children to repent their sins? Are they teaching Jesus' greatest commandment of all?

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these.

If they are teaching about love, respect, forgiveness, which is what Jesus taught, then no it's not child abuse. If they are teaching to kill Jews and bomb children, then yes it's child abuse.

I've seen the film, and you should watch it, too

They are teaching these kids to hate and kill Muslims. They are being told that they need to go to war. There's an entire scene with the children screaming "We're going to war! We're going to war!"

I'm not making this up, nor am I reinterpreting it. I don't own a copy of the movie, or I'd quote it for you. At these camps, these children are being indoctrinated into a culture of hate. Sure, they're not practicing with rifles and suicide bombs, but the brainwashing and the messaging is identical.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: JS80
There's a lot of dumb people here who think they are "smart" by logically rejecting "God" which ironically proves their idiocy.

What....the.....wow.

What do you call talking to yourself at night, asking for things to magically happen for you?

Once again, proof that you have no understanding of God and only know what you see on TV.

So do you agree with this?

What am I agreeing/disagreeing with? Selective clips from a Jesus Camp and not one thing about the substance of what they are teaching there.

Do you believe what you see in those clips is child abuse?

Do you believe the little muslim kids with fake suicide belts as toys is an example of child abuse?

The clips don't show details of exactly what they are teaching. I do know that in Muslim camps they teach to hate and kill Jews and Christians. They say they are pigs that should be slaughtered. No camp that teaches what Jesus teaches would be even close to that. Are they teaching children to repent their sins? Are they teaching Jesus' greatest commandment of all?

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these.

If they are teaching about love, respect, forgiveness, which is what Jesus taught, then no it's not child abuse. If they are teaching to kill Jews and bomb children, then yes it's child abuse.

I've seen the film, and you should watch it, too

They are teaching these kids to hate and kill Muslims. They are being told that they need to go to war. There's an entire scene with the children screaming "We're going to war! We're going to war!"

I'm not making this up, nor am I reinterpreting it. I don't own a copy of the movie, or I'd quote it for you. At these camps, these children are being indoctrinated into a culture of hate. Sure, they're not practicing with rifles and suicide bombs, but the brainwashing and the messaging is identical.

Well then that is not Christian. Jesus camp my ass. There is no way you can re-interpret the gospel with "hate and kill Muslims."

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
They are teaching these kids to hate and kill Muslims. They are being told that they need to go to war. There's an entire scene with the children screaming "We're going to war! We're going to war!"

I'm not making this up, nor am I reinterpreting it. I don't own a copy of the movie, or I'd quote it for you. At these camps, these children are being indoctrinated into a culture of hate. Sure, they're not practicing with rifles and suicide bombs, but the brainwashing and the messaging is identical.

That's ok, when the war comes we can strap them to tanks and planes as protection. Operation Get Behind the Morons.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: JS80
There's a lot of dumb people here who think they are "smart" by logically rejecting "God" which ironically proves their idiocy.

Yup. Then there's the majority of us who have an open mind about everything and choose to accept nothing more than the possibility of an existence without further evidence to support such claims.

There are some things that can and should be dogmatically stated. The problem with an "open mind" is that there is no truth for you to stand on. You also shouldn't be arrogantly calling people "nutjobs" (unless you call yourself one, as well) if your mind is truly open as you say it is, because then you should be open to to the possibility that you are wrong about everything, and correct about nothing.

Blah blah blah. :roll:

Who said I'm not open to being wrong?

Nutjobs are people who accept and believe the existence of god or aliens without proof.

Like you.

Let's play a game, shall we:

Nik doesn't exist. He isn't a real person. "He" is actually a group of people pretending to be one person on the AnandTech forums. Sitting in a lab somewhere are a group of philosophers, scientists, and technicians writing all of the material that the "Nik" account posts.

I make this information known to everyone at AnandTech via a new thread entitled "Nik is not real". "Listen, everyone, don't believe in Nik! He's not real - it's just a experiment. Don't be fooled!"
5 minutes after posting this new thread, 7 replies are found in the thread. 3 are typical nef responses, and the other 3 are opposing what I said.

Originally posted by: user1
What are you, an idiot? I know Nik exists. I spoke to him yesterday! You must be on crack, or something.

I respond back, "Prove to me that you talked to him. How do you know it isn't just some actor playing a part?"

The next user posted this:

Originally posted by: user2
I know Nik is a real person, and not some group of people writing his responses and making up a personality. Nik is the best! He's awesome, and the nicest person ever. No, I haven't met him, but I just know he exists!

I respond with the following. "You're just some nutjob. How do you know he exists without some proof? If he really exists, than show me one ounce of proof. No? Then you are just another retard buying into the lies. Nik is a lie!"

I give up reading the rest of the responses, discouraged by these obviously stupid posters. I mean surely they realize that anyone and their decrepit grandma can make a user account on AT on behalf of a bowl of pasta and pass it off as being a human being! And Nik is so obviously not a single person... he contradicts his own logic half the time. This is easily explained by him being multiple people, and yet the masses refuse to see the truth.

I decide to continue posting the truth about Nik in every thread he posts in,hoping these poor sheep will realize their own idiocy in believing in the existence of this "Nik", and acting as if he were real. Three days later, I hear a knock at my front door at 4AM.

I open the door, and see a 6' 5" bald, black man in a sharp black suit and tie. He has sunglasses on. I say to him, "How can I help you?"
He replies with a booming voice, "I AM NIK. I DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU'VE BEEN SAYING ABOUT ME ON ANANDTECH." My knees are shaking a little bit (this guy is big and muscular, and I must look like a shrimp to him), but I manage to speak clearly and loudly, "Yeah?! If you're Nik, prove it!"

He moves his hand so quickly into his pocket that I am afraid he is pulling out a gun. I nearly wet myself. I sigh in relief, though, when I see it is just a wallet. He opens the wallet and shows me the laminated card. It is a driver's license. The name on the card says, "Nik Anderson", and the picture does look like the big dude standing in front of me. I give a nervous laugh. "That doesn't prove anything!", I say. "It's not hard to make a fake license, especially since you know I have no way of checking the ID. It's obvious you aren't Nik, but just a stooge. Show me some real proof".

He takes one step closer to me, and his face is now 2 inches away from mine. A bead of sweat runs down my face, and I definitely feel something wet drip down my legs. He whispers to me, "I don't have to prove my existence to you". Then all turns black as he punches me in an instant.
--------------------------------------
END GAME

 

[SirStev0]

Originally posted by: dNor
They'll probably say it's a useless hypothetical situation, akin to asking an atheist what he'd think if God suddenly appeared before him.

guess who asked that.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: SirStev0

Originally posted by: dNor
They'll probably say it's a useless hypothetical situation, akin to asking an atheist what he'd think if God suddenly appeared before him.

guess who asked that.

w'o?

 

[FeuerFrei]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
They are teaching these kids to hate and kill Muslims. They are being told that they need to go to war. There's an entire scene with the children screaming "We're going to war! We're going to war!"

I'm not making this up, nor am I reinterpreting it. I don't own a copy of the movie, or I'd quote it for you. At these camps, these children are being indoctrinated into a culture of hate. Sure, they're not practicing with rifles and suicide bombs, but the brainwashing and the messaging is identical.

Are they?
That's pretty preposterous and hard to conceive. The video seems like a portrayal of Bible camps in general. If you believe that fear-mongering you yourself are brainwashed, sadly.
Quit drawing parallels with Islam because that just leads to fear.

This 'war' or battle referred to is purely in the spiritual and cultural realm. You have to admit that anyone who stands up for Biblically-defined right is going to be drawn into conflict with those who want to do what's right in their own eyes. There will be division and disagreement.

No one in Bible camp is teaching kids to assault or persecute those who don't believe as they do. If they are, it sure isn't 'Bible camp'. Teaching that certain behaviors are wrong/wicked and not to be engaged in is not tantamount to teaching hatred of those that practice it. Capiche? No one is encouraging the use of faith as a vehicle for hatred of others. Trust me I've been to one back in the day.

Any faux soldiering activities the children engage in are simply because kids like to pretend/role-play and it provides a great metaphor for the spiritual struggles they face.

The spiritual warrior role of Christians gets its root from Ephesians 6 where it says:

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

See not as scary as you thought.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: irishScott
I see it as the most likely option. Until science proves otherwise, I'll maintain that belief.

When we don't know anything, then all possible answers are equal in probability.

So it's equally likely that my pet ball python created the Universe, as it is that God did it? I mean, since we don't know anything, it's just as likely? Or maybe my right pinky's fingernail is actually intelligent, and it created the antimatter half of the Universe, but my thumbnail, being larger, created matter, and more of it. Thus we have matter today, and not antimatter.

Yes. I choose not to believe that because I don't think it makes sense, but we don't know anything, so it potentially could.

This we know is false. At least it's not intelligent by any human definition.

Everything we know is viewed through the human lens, and we know nothing conclusive concerning the divine. Fact is we have nothing else to go off of. We have to make decisions via this lens. Therefore I made the decision to believe in a God, based on everything my human sense could give me. I don't claim to "know" anything.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: Eeezee
They are teaching these kids to hate and kill Muslims. They are being told that they need to go to war. There's an entire scene with the children screaming "We're going to war! We're going to war!"

I'm not making this up, nor am I reinterpreting it. I don't own a copy of the movie, or I'd quote it for you. At these camps, these children are being indoctrinated into a culture of hate. Sure, they're not practicing with rifles and suicide bombs, but the brainwashing and the messaging is identical.

Are they?
That's pretty preposterous and hard to conceive. The video seems like a portrayal of Bible camps in general. If you believe that fear-mongering you yourself are brainwashed, sadly.
Quit drawing parallels with Islam because that just leads to fear.

This 'war' or battle referred to is purely in the spiritual and cultural realm. You have to admit that anyone who stands up for Biblically-defined right is going to be drawn into conflict with those who want to do what's right in their own eyes. There will be division and disagreement.

No one in Bible camp is teaching kids to assault or persecute those who don't believe as they do. If they are, it sure isn't 'Bible camp'. Teaching that certain behaviors are wrong/wicked and not to be engaged in is not tantamount to teaching hatred of those that practice it. Capiche? No one is encouraging the use of faith as a vehicle for hatred of others. Trust me I've been to one back in the day.

Any faux soldiering activities the children engage in are simply because kids like to pretend/role-play and it provides a great metaphor for the spiritual struggles they face.

The spiritual warrior role of Christians gets its root from Ephesians 6 where it says:

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

See not as scary as you thought.

When kids are spazzing out on the ground while speaking in tongues and the adults just say "oh he/she's really in touch with God right now" there's a problem. A big one.

That and they're training the kids to be close-minded. That their way is not just the right way, but the only way.

This close-mindedness simply breeds ignorance, and ignorance breeds things like South Africans believing that having sex with a virgin will cure AIDS.

Obviously that's an extreme example, but willful ignorance is never a good thing. There are probably a googlplex of examples throughout history.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: Eeezee
They are teaching these kids to hate and kill Muslims. They are being told that they need to go to war. There's an entire scene with the children screaming "We're going to war! We're going to war!"

I'm not making this up, nor am I reinterpreting it. I don't own a copy of the movie, or I'd quote it for you. At these camps, these children are being indoctrinated into a culture of hate. Sure, they're not practicing with rifles and suicide bombs, but the brainwashing and the messaging is identical.

Are they?
That's pretty preposterous and hard to conceive. The video seems like a portrayal of Bible camps in general. If you believe that fear-mongering you yourself are brainwashed, sadly.
Quit drawing parallels with Islam because that just leads to fear.

This 'war' or battle referred to is purely in the spiritual and cultural realm. You have to admit that anyone who stands up for Biblically-defined right is going to be drawn into conflict with those who want to do what's right in their own eyes. There will be division and disagreement.

No one in Bible camp is teaching kids to assault or persecute those who don't believe as they do. If they are, it sure isn't 'Bible camp'. Teaching that certain behaviors are wrong/wicked and not to be engaged in is not tantamount to teaching hatred of those that practice it. Capiche? No one is encouraging the use of faith as a vehicle for hatred of others. Trust me I've been to one back in the day.

Any faux soldiering activities the children engage in are simply because kids like to pretend/role-play and it provides a great metaphor for the spiritual struggles they face.

The spiritual warrior role of Christians gets its root from Ephesians 6 where it says:

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

See not as scary as you thought.

You're right, its worse.