Question for religious people

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Crono
Not a real spacecraft and not real aliens, anyway.

Thank you for proving KB's point that religious nutjobs will say anything to continue following their faith blindly.

Think about it. How many atheists would also be skeptical of an alien spacecraft and aliens? Some people you know, even? Maybe not as many as those who claim to be religious, but a large number, I am sure. Despire the statements of people that there "must" be intelligent life on other planets due to the vast amount of time and space in the universe, there is not a single shred of evidence that shows otherwise. So yes, I think there will be "religious nutjobs" like myself, as well as atheists, agnostics, and any other classification you can think of, that deny any such appearing as being a true extraterrestrial visitation.

Can I ask where your shred of evidence is for "God"?

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
If it happened today, it's likely that the pope's response would be something to the effect of, "Avast, thar be aliens! Ahoy!" Other than that, I don't think he'd be too worried about it, unless they happened to be from that planet that the Scientologists or Mormons think they're from. Then things might get a little shaky.

I would pay just to see the Pope say that in full costume.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Crono
Not a real spacecraft and not real aliens, anyway.

Thank you for proving KB's point that religious nutjobs will say anything to continue following their faith blindly.

Think about it. How many atheists would also be skeptical of an alien spacecraft and aliens? Some people you know, even? Maybe not as many as those who claim to be religious, but a large number, I am sure. Despire the statements of people that there "must" be intelligent life on other planets due to the vast amount of time and space in the universe, there is not a single shred of evidence that shows otherwise. So yes, I think there will be "religious nutjobs" like myself, as well as atheists, agnostics, and any other classification you can think of, that deny any such appearing as being a true extraterrestrial visitation.

Can I ask where your shred of evidence is for "God"?

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

You take your damn logic and reason out of this thread, asshole :|

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Crono
Think about it. How many atheists would also be skeptical of an alien spacecraft and aliens? Some people you know, even? Maybe not as many as those who claim to be religious, but a large number, I am sure. Despire the statements of people that there "must" be intelligent life on other planets due to the vast amount of time and space in the universe, there is not a single shred of evidence that shows otherwise. So yes, I think there will be "religious nutjobs" like myself, as well as atheists, agnostics, and any other classification you can think of, that deny any such appearing as being a true extraterrestrial visitation.

I would imagine atheists and agnostics to be more accepting of visitation - the think that skeptics tend to discard are the accounts of UFOs which have been made by people who most likely "saw" what they did as the result of excessive drug use, or severe head trauma endured while molesting farm animals.


Another question: What if we're able to establish communications with the aliens through some language translator, and they discount the idea of any sort of deity? Then what?
Or more amusing still: What if they have their own religious system? Interstellar holy war? May the best god(s) win?

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: Crono
Hypotheticals like this are pointless, because it won't happen. Not a real spacecraft and not real aliens, anyway. You might as well ask what would religious people do if everyone on the planet suddenly became believers. Besides, there wouldn't be any one unified response.

How can you say "not a real spacecraft and not real aliens"? Just as I cannot prove your "God" doesn't exist, you cannot prove that aliens don't exist somewhere in the Universe. It is completely different than asking if everybody became a believer, because I am not saying you couldn't still believe in "God" or that religion would go away. The same way a lot of doctrine has changed from the times of an Earth-centric view of the universe to the modern view of the Universe.

Belief in aliens takes faith, as does faith in God. There is no legitimate evidence for the existence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. You are asking me to assume something that requires faith to be true. I have the right to reject your assumption, just as you have the right to reject the existence of God in your own mind. Just because you asked the question and made a post doesn't mean I have to play by your rules. It is an open debate, and I challenge your premise. If this were a discussion about God, you could do the same (and in fact, that's what people do in nearly every single religion thread, albeit often more rudely).

 

[darkxshade]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: Crono
Think about it. How many atheists would also be skeptical of an alien spacecraft and aliens? Some people you know, even? Maybe not as many as those who claim to be religious, but a large number, I am sure. Despire the statements of people that there "must" be intelligent life on other planets due to the vast amount of time and space in the universe, there is not a single shred of evidence that shows otherwise. So yes, I think there will be "religious nutjobs" like myself, as well as atheists, agnostics, and any other classification you can think of, that deny any such appearing as being a true extraterrestrial visitation.

I would imagine atheists and agnostics to be more accepting of visitation - the think that skeptics tend to discard are the accounts of UFOs which have been made by people who most likely "saw" what they did as the result of excessive drug use, or severe head trauma endured while molesting farm animals.


Another question: What if we're able to establish communications with the aliens through some language translator, and they discount the idea of any sort of deity? Then what?
Or more amusing still: What if they have their own religious system? Interstellar holy war? May the best god(s) win?

What if their God is the same as ours... now that would be interesting.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
When something is pounded into your head a such a young age (church, gawd, etc), it is very hard to get out of it. No matter what logic tells you (A man didnt build a giant boat and track down 2 of every animal, the earth isnt only 5000 years old, etc) you are going to keep your "faith." For most religious people, I would say religion was burned into thier brain long before they discovered logic.

Pretty much. Which is why I'm going to ensure that my future kids aren't indoctrinated with that shit at a young age. I'll let them go to a decently moderate church if they/my future wife wants it. Many social opportunities that are vital at that age can be found there, but if I hear them spouting off about "the one true God" or any other phrase of the Bible, they're going to get a good lesson in common sense from Daddy.

In any case, I'm 20, so all of this "future" stuff probably won't happen for another few years.

Seriously though, religious indoctrination is virtually the same as brainwashing suicide bombers. Admittedly the results are (generally) much more positive, but it's the same principle.

Yeah, free will is such a pain in the ass. Why can't everyone think and believe like I do which is obviously the right way.

 

[JS80]

There's a lot of dumb people here who think they are "smart" by logically rejecting "God" which ironically proves their idiocy.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: Crono
Belief in aliens takes faith, as does faith in God. There is no legitimate evidence for the existence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.

Be careful. Just because there may not be evidence of either doesn't make both equally probable.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Crono
Not a real spacecraft and not real aliens, anyway.

Thank you for proving KB's point that religious nutjobs will say anything to continue following their faith blindly.

Think about it. How many atheists would also be skeptical of an alien spacecraft and aliens? Some people you know, even? Maybe not as many as those who claim to be religious, but a large number, I am sure. Despire the statements of people that there "must" be intelligent life on other planets due to the vast amount of time and space in the universe, there is not a single shred of evidence that shows otherwise. So yes, I think there will be "religious nutjobs" like myself, as well as atheists, agnostics, and any other classification you can think of, that deny any such appearing as being a true extraterrestrial visitation.

Can I ask where your shred of evidence is for "God"?

And may I ask what type of evidence would you be willing to accept? Any evidence that I did offer, you would dismiss out of hand, I am sure. If God wrote his name in the cosmos with stars (not that I think He would be so ostentatious as to literally do such a thing), I am sure people would be able to reason that away. I think that the heavens declare the glory of God, and that nature itself speaks to His existence. But what would it take to prove God's existence to you?

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: JS80
There's a lot of dumb people here who think they are "smart" by logically rejecting "God" which ironically proves their idiocy.

Yup. Then there's the majority of us who have an open mind about everything and choose to accept nothing more than the possibility of an existence without further evidence to support such claims.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
When something is pounded into your head a such a young age (church, gawd, etc), it is very hard to get out of it. No matter what logic tells you (A man didnt build a giant boat and track down 2 of every animal, the earth isnt only 5000 years old, etc) you are going to keep your "faith." For most religious people, I would say religion was burned into thier brain long before they discovered logic.

Pretty much. Which is why I'm going to ensure that my future kids aren't indoctrinated with that shit at a young age. I'll let them go to a decently moderate church if they/my future wife wants it. Many social opportunities that are vital at that age can be found there, but if I hear them spouting off about "the one true God" or any other phrase of the Bible, they're going to get a good lesson in common sense from Daddy.

In any case, I'm 20, so all of this "future" stuff probably won't happen for another few years.

Seriously though, religious indoctrination is virtually the same as brainwashing suicide bombers. Admittedly the results are (generally) much more positive, but it's the same principle.

Yeah, free will is such a pain in the ass. Why can't everyone think and believe like I do which is obviously the right way.

Don't get me wrong, if when they reach a certain age they want to convert I won't stand in the way (assuming it's nothing fanatical), but I see religion as something that they shouldn't be making a decision about early in life, much in the same way we don't teach sex-ed to 1st graders.

I will let them choose without subjecting them to early indoctrination. In any case, religious beliefs are religion-specific. Common sense is universal.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: JS80
There's a lot of dumb people here who think they are "smart" by logically rejecting "God" which ironically proves their idiocy.

What....the.....wow.

What do you call talking to yourself at night, asking for things to magically happen for you?

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: Crono
Hypotheticals like this are pointless, because it won't happen. Not a real spacecraft and not real aliens, anyway. You might as well ask what would religious people do if everyone on the planet suddenly became believers. Besides, there wouldn't be any one unified response.

How can you say "not a real spacecraft and not real aliens"? Just as I cannot prove your "God" doesn't exist, you cannot prove that aliens don't exist somewhere in the Universe. It is completely different than asking if everybody became a believer, because I am not saying you couldn't still believe in "God" or that religion would go away. The same way a lot of doctrine has changed from the times of an Earth-centric view of the universe to the modern view of the Universe.

Belief in aliens takes faith, as does faith in God. There is no legitimate evidence for the existence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. You are asking me to assume something that requires faith to be true. I have the right to reject your assumption, just as you have the right to reject the existence of God in your own mind. Just because you asked the question and made a post doesn't mean I have to play by your rules. It is an open debate, and I challenge your premise. If this were a discussion about God, you could do the same (and in fact, that's what people do in nearly every single religion thread, albeit often more rudely).

Yes you can challenge my premise. If the roles were reversed and the question posed was "How would atheists/agnostics change if God came to Earth today and proving He existed?" I would be willing to actually think about that as far as my own life and beliefs are concerned. I realize most people bash religion every chance they get (I'll admit I have myself sometimes, but I try not to).

Yes belief in both aliens and God takes faith of one kind or another, but I can put my beliefs aside to be able to have an intellectual conversation about a hypothetical question. I didn't ask you to believe in aliens, I just asked if religious texts/doctrine would have to be "modified" to accomidate the fact that aliens existed. The same way Agnostic/Atheists would have to modify their beliefs if "God" came to Earth today.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: JS80
There's a lot of dumb people here who think they are "smart" by logically rejecting "God" which ironically proves their idiocy.

Yup. Then there's the majority of us who have an open mind about everything and choose to accept nothing more than the possibility of an existence without further evidence to support such claims.

There are some things that can and should be dogmatically stated. The problem with an "open mind" is that there is no truth for you to stand on. You also shouldn't be arrogantly calling people "nutjobs" (unless you call yourself one, as well) if your mind is truly open as you say it is, because then you should be open to to the possibility that you are wrong about everything, and correct about nothing.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: JS80
There's a lot of dumb people here who think they are "smart" by logically rejecting "God" which ironically proves their idiocy.

Yup. Then there's the majority of us who have an open mind about everything and choose to accept nothing more than the possibility of an existence without further evidence to support such claims.

There are some things that can and should be dogmatically stated. The problem with an "open mind" is that there is no truth for you to stand on. You also shouldn't be arrogantly calling people "nutjobs" (unless you call yourself one, as well) if your mind is truly open as you say it is, because then you should be open to to the possibility that you are wrong about everything, and correct about nothing.

Blah blah blah. :roll:

Who said I'm not open to being wrong?

Nutjobs are people who accept and believe the existence of god or aliens without proof.

Like you.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: JS80
There's a lot of dumb people here who think they are "smart" by logically rejecting "God" which ironically proves their idiocy.

Yup. Then there's the majority of us who have an open mind about everything and choose to accept nothing more than the possibility of an existence without further evidence to support such claims.

There are some things that can and should be dogmatically stated. The problem with an "open mind" is that there is no truth for you to stand on. You also shouldn't be arrogantly calling people "nutjobs" (unless you call yourself one, as well) if your mind is truly open as you say it is, because then you should be open to to the possibility that you are wrong about everything, and correct about nothing.

When most people ask for their critics to have an "open mind" what they are really asking is for the critics to have an empty mind.

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: JS80
There's a lot of dumb people here who think they are "smart" by logically rejecting "God" which ironically proves their idiocy.

What....the.....wow.

What do you call talking to yourself at night, asking for things to magically happen for you?

Hope. There's nothing wrong with spirituality and prayer. I'm pretty sure there's a God, in which case it's your loss.


The point is no one can conclusively "prove" anything. The only arguments are in terms of probability which, because we know so little about everything, we still can't calculate.

You say it's extremely unlikely that God exists due to the complexity of Science, what it proves, how many things from the Bible it's disproved, etc.

I say the fact that order even exists in the Universe is a sign of a sentient Deity. Explain to me in scientific fact how the laws of physics came to exist, and I'll withdraw that.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
When something is pounded into your head a such a young age (church, gawd, etc), it is very hard to get out of it. No matter what logic tells you (A man didnt build a giant boat and track down 2 of every animal, the earth isnt only 5000 years old, etc) you are going to keep your "faith." For most religious people, I would say religion was burned into thier brain long before they discovered logic.

Pretty much. Which is why I'm going to ensure that my future kids aren't indoctrinated with that shit at a young age. I'll let them go to a decently moderate church if they/my future wife wants it. Many social opportunities that are vital at that age can be found there, but if I hear them spouting off about "the one true God" or any other phrase of the Bible, they're going to get a good lesson in common sense from Daddy.

In any case, I'm 20, so all of this "future" stuff probably won't happen for another few years.

Seriously though, religious indoctrination is virtually the same as brainwashing suicide bombers. Admittedly the results are (generally) much more positive, but it's the same principle.

Yeah, free will is such a pain in the ass. Why can't everyone think and believe like I do which is obviously the right way.

Don't get me wrong, if when they reach a certain age they want to convert I won't stand in the way, but I see religion as something that they shouldn't be making a decision about early in life, much in the same way we don't teach sex-ed to 1st graders.

I will let them choose without subjecting them to early indoctrination. In any case, religious beliefs are religion-specific. Common sense is universal.

Children need to be led by example and consistantcy. Logic and reason alone tends to isolate and create a black and white view of the world. Common sense is not universal because the customs and culture we have here and now is not the TRUTH. Perspective and immersion in other cultures tends to beat that out of you pretty quick if you want to avoid a Darwin award.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: JS80
There's a lot of dumb people here who think they are "smart" by logically rejecting "God" which ironically proves their idiocy.

What....the.....wow.

What do you call talking to yourself at night, asking for things to magically happen for you?

Hope. There's nothing wrong with spirituality and prayer. I'm pretty sure there's a God, in which case it's your loss.


The point is no one can conclusively "prove" anything. The only arguments are in terms of probability which, because we know so little about everything, we still can't calculate.

You say it's extremely unlikely that God exists due to the complexity of Science, what it proves, how many things from the Bible it's disproved, etc.

I say the fact that order even exists in the Universe is a sign of a sentient Deity. Explain to me in scientific fact how the laws of physics came to exist, and I'll withdraw that.

The God Delusion addresses that point quite well. I'd recommend reading it.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: JS80
There's a lot of dumb people here who think they are "smart" by logically rejecting "God" which ironically proves their idiocy.

What....the.....wow.

What do you call talking to yourself at night, asking for things to magically happen for you?

Hope. There's nothing wrong with spirituality and prayer. I'm pretty sure there's a God, in which case it's your loss.


The point is no one can conclusively "prove" anything. The only arguments are in terms of probability which, because we know so little about everything, we still can't calculate.

You say it's extremely unlikely that God exists due to the complexity of Science, what it proves, how many things from the Bible it's disproved, etc.

I say the fact that order even exists in the Universe is a sign of a sentient Deity. Explain to me in scientific fact how the laws of physics came to exist, and I'll withdraw that.

Just because you cant explain something, doesnt mean it has to be a magical man in the sky.

The ancients couldnt explain the weather, so they had a weather god, etc.

Throughout history, people have always explained away what they dont understand with magic. Years later, we all look back and laugh at sun gods, war gods, gods of the sea.

If we dont completely destroy ourselves with thermonuclear war, i'm truly hoping that we can get past religion as a species. Its time to move on....

 

[So]

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: JS80
There's a lot of dumb people here who think they are "smart" by logically rejecting "God" which ironically proves their idiocy.

What....the.....wow.

What do you call talking to yourself at night, asking for things to magically happen for you?

Hope. There's nothing wrong with spirituality and prayer. I'm pretty sure there's a God, in which case it's your loss.


The point is no one can conclusively "prove" anything. The only arguments are in terms of probability which, because we know so little about everything, we still can't calculate.

You say it's extremely unlikely that God exists due to the complexity of Science, what it proves, how many things from the Bible it's disproved, etc.

I say the fact that order even exists in the Universe is a sign of a sentient Deity. Explain to me in scientific fact how the laws of physics came to exist, and I'll withdraw that.

Have you considered the possibility that the universe only appears ordered because we evolved within it and an outsider might see it as an unordered mess?

And the point atheists are trying to make is this: Theists are the one asserting the existence of god. The burden of proof, therefore lies with theists. It would surely be possible for an all powerful god to prove his existence, and without any proof, atheists claim that believing in a god is a baseless position.

 

[Vehemence]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
If we dont completely destroy ourselves with thermonuclear war, i'm truly hoping that we can get past religion as a species. Its time to move on....

That'd be nice but sadly it's as much of a fantasy as magic men in the sky

 

[irishScott]

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer

Originally posted by: irishScott

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
When something is pounded into your head a such a young age (church, gawd, etc), it is very hard to get out of it. No matter what logic tells you (A man didnt build a giant boat and track down 2 of every animal, the earth isnt only 5000 years old, etc) you are going to keep your "faith." For most religious people, I would say religion was burned into thier brain long before they discovered logic.

Pretty much. Which is why I'm going to ensure that my future kids aren't indoctrinated with that shit at a young age. I'll let them go to a decently moderate church if they/my future wife wants it. Many social opportunities that are vital at that age can be found there, but if I hear them spouting off about "the one true God" or any other phrase of the Bible, they're going to get a good lesson in common sense from Daddy.

In any case, I'm 20, so all of this "future" stuff probably won't happen for another few years.

Seriously though, religious indoctrination is virtually the same as brainwashing suicide bombers. Admittedly the results are (generally) much more positive, but it's the same principle.

Yeah, free will is such a pain in the ass. Why can't everyone think and believe like I do which is obviously the right way.

Don't get me wrong, if when they reach a certain age they want to convert I won't stand in the way, but I see religion as something that they shouldn't be making a decision about early in life, much in the same way we don't teach sex-ed to 1st graders.

I will let them choose without subjecting them to early indoctrination. In any case, religious beliefs are religion-specific. Common sense is universal.

Children need to be led by example and consistantcy. Logic and reason alone tends to isolate and create a black and white view of the world. Common sense is not universal because the customs and culture we have here and now is not the TRUTH. Perspective and immersion in other cultures tends to beat that out of you pretty quick if you want to avoid a Darwin award.

How does this require religion?

Common sense != logic and reason alone. I know many religious people with a good dose of common sense. I was brought up on the Berstein Bears, Little Red Riding Hood, Good Night Moon, 3 Little Pigs etc. Went to church regularly, but even then I never really got into it. I thought the Bible was a boring book.

Also, I know from first-hand experience how dangerous a binary thought system can be. Fucked up most of my high school life (depression and such).

Point is, I actually admire and agree with most Christian values, but I'm living proof that you don't need the Christianity to back it.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: JS80
There's a lot of dumb people here who think they are "smart" by logically rejecting "God" which ironically proves their idiocy.

What....the.....wow.

What do you call talking to yourself at night, asking for things to magically happen for you?

Once again, proof that you have no understanding of God and only know what you see on TV.