Quartet may recognize Palestinian State in September.

[SamurAchzar]

Of course they aren't. The "right of return" is the single biggest obstacle to any agreement for the next decades. The Palestinians know they won't have any legitimacy to continue attacking Israel over that after they get their state. I don't think Obama's administration understands it in the same way.

It's rooted so deep in the Palestinian narrative it's defining their existence, yet very people outside of the Palestinian society understand that.

Luckily, while many acknowledge the Palestinians right to a state, much fewer support their "right of return", and as the Palestinians will not accept the former without the latter, this is going exactly nowhere.

How will Abbas explain himself to the Palestinians that live from 1948 in refugee camps in Jordan and Lebanon, awaiting the eradication of Israel?

 

[Lemon law]

Meanwhile the Americans already hinted that they are going to introduce a new peace initiative mandating the return of Israel to 1967 borders in exchange to the Palestinians abandoning the "right of return" notion.

That's the best thing that could happen to Israel politically. Now lets see Abbas squirm.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We shall see about that Sammy assertion, but the other thing to pint out is that Israel is hardly united.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/nationa...v-rally-to-support-palestinian-state-1.357368

As many in Israel desire a Palestinian State, included 21 Israeli noble prize winners. Who were shouted down rudely but extreme right wing Israelis.

Then we have that prior position by Sammy that Netanyuhu is being smart by letting Abbas control the debate. As Netanyuhu also says he is for a Palestinian State while doing everything to torpedo such a State. But refuses to renew a settlement freeze to fulfill the Israeli demanded price to resume talks.

Then especially given the fact that Netanyuhu will talk to the US congress next month, the following Haaretz editorial points out the Netanyuhu must stop trying to straddle the fence, and finally lay out the Netanyuhu vision.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...srael-to-reaffirm-its-right-to-exist-1.357149

Or as the editorial say, the summer of 2011 may be Israel's last chance.

As it is the USA no longer leads or control's the Quartet, and the other members will make the USA pay they price, because the USA can't lead, Sec of State Hillary Clinton makes noise to the effect the USA can't follow, buts its going to be very USA expensive come 9/2011 if the USA can't get out of the way.

 

[JEDIYoda]

We shall see about that Sammy assertion, but the other thing to pint out is that Israel is hardly united.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national...state-1.357368

As many in Israel desire a Palestinian State, included 21 Israeli noble prize winners. Who were shouted down rudely but extreme right wing Israelis.

Then we have that prior position by Sammy that Netanyuhu is being smart by letting Abbas control the debate. As Netanyuhu also says he is for a Palestinian State while doing everything to torpedo such a State. But refuses to renew a settlement freeze to fulfill the Israeli demanded price to resume talks.

Then especially given the fact that Netanyuhu will talk to the US congress next month, the following Haaretz editorial points out the Netanyuhu must stop trying to straddle the fence, and finally lay out the Netanyuhu vision.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...exist-1.357149

Or as the editorial say, the summer of 2011 may be Israel's last chance.

As it is the USA no longer leads or control's the Quartet, and the other members will make the USA pay they price, because the USA can't lead, Sec of State Hillary Clinton makes noise to the effect the USA can't follow, buts its going to be very USA expensive come 9/2011 if the USA can't get out of the way.

if we had to have a vote today on whose predictions have come true over the last few years....
Samur or Lemon -- Samur would win hands down!!
Not one thing that Lemon has predicted has come to pass...not a single one!!

 

[Lemon law]

The other reason I assert that 9/2011 is the year for the establishment of a Palestinian State is that the world has never had a major world figure state 9/2011 is a deadline for such a State.

But Obama made that Statement and now Obama can't retract, as the Quartet has taken up the job. Netanyuhu may think he has outsmarted Obama, but all Netanyuhu has done is humiliated his greatest ally.

Aipac and a part of the US congress may be be the only entities on the side of Israel, but the Palestinian press inside and outside of the USA can only grow as Netanyuhu speaks to the US congress.

As Netanyuhu finally has to get off straddling the fence. And worse than that, Netanyuhu greatest problem will come from his own crazed settler parties. But as Netanyuhu speaks to the US congress, establishing Netanyuhu credibility may cost a real Israeli settlement freeze.

Or come 9/2011 with the only USA unilaterally stopping a Palestinian State, the USA and Congress, may find they have incurably alienated the entire world and especially all the Arabs. As the US military occupations in Afghanistan and Iraq turn untenable.

 

[Lemon law]

To some extent I have to agree with JediY as he maintains, "if we had to have a vote today on whose predictions have come true over the last few years....
Samur or Lemon -- Samur would win hands down!!
Not one thing that Lemon has predicted has come to pass...not a single one!!"

The point is and remains, JediY my predictions have not come to pass YET, but Israel government policy is in a hell of a worse shape than it was even a few years ago, and if you JediY think its bad now, just wait for this May and the rest of summer. Israel is running out of friends at an incredible rate. As Israel has now become the greatest threat to mid-east stability, in a very world that depends on that mid-east stability.

 

[Abwx]

In the waiting, Israeli nazis are continuing their vicious policy.....

GAZA, April 21 (Xinhua) -- The Israeli army destroyed several warehouses and installations during an operation in eastern Gaza City Thursday, witnesses and sources said.

Israeli bulldozers and tanks operated in the area, destroying eight stores of Palestinian merchants and causing damage to a waste water treatment facility for the area, the witnesses said.
The sources said the losses of the Israeli operation were around one million U.S. dollars.
There was no tension on the border when the Israeli tanks entered the industrial zone, according to the witnesses.
Mahmoud Al-Yazji, head of the Palestinian Chamber of Commerce, condemned Israel's operation. "The aim of this operation is to destroy the rest of the industrial zone," he said in a statement.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-04/21/c_13840108.htm

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

In the waiting, Israeli nazis are continuing their vicious policy.....

GAZA, April 21 (Xinhua) -- The Israeli army destroyed several warehouses and installations during an operation in eastern Gaza City Thursday, witnesses and sources said.

Israeli bulldozers and tanks operated in the area, destroying eight stores of Palestinian merchants and causing damage to a waste water treatment facility for the area, the witnesses said.
The sources said the losses of the Israeli operation were around one million U.S. dollars.
There was no tension on the border when the Israeli tanks entered the industrial zone, according to the witnesses.
Mahmoud Al-Yazji, head of the Palestinian Chamber of Commerce, condemned Israel's operation. "The aim of this operation is to destroy the rest of the industrial zone," he said in a statement.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-04/21/c_13840108.htm

Good job quoting Chinese state-owned and operated news.

 

[Freshgeardude]

my predictions have not come to pass

so you admit you have been wrong over the years

YET

all of a sudden your predictions will magically be correct!

yes. makes sense if you dont think about it

 

[EagleKeeper]

my predictions have not come to pass

so you admit you have been wrong over the years

YET

all of a sudden your predictions will magically be correct!

yes. makes sense if you dont think about it

Even a blind man can hit the dart board once in a while.

It is the track record that actually becomes a way of giving credence.

I also predict that there will be a Palestine state. And Israel will have to again attack it. And the Palestinians will again apeal to the UN to protect them from their idiotic selves.


Which prediction is more accurate and believable based on track records?

 

[dali71]

 

[Lemon law]

so you admit you have been wrong over the years

YET

all of a sudden your predictions will magically be correct!

yes. makes sense if you dont think about it

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I proudly State my predictions have an annoying habits of being right in the end, I have been proved right on Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Just because it has not finally come to pass in Israeli does not mean it soon will. Look at the current Israeli position, its become a disaster in the last decade, and the Israeli position was much better even a year ago than it is now.

Israel is seemingly now turned catatonic, as even Peres and many other Israelis now point out.

This is the first time in Israeli history, that a US president, has set a deadline for Israel to get its shit together by 9/2011. And now the Bozo Netanyuhu strategy seemingly boils down to saying AIPAC save us. But in just a few days its going to be May, and Netanyuhu and Obama will have to lay out a vision, as the Quartet are skeptical of both.

Meanwhile Abbas and the PA are lining up world wide support, they got the Turks today, and Germany and France yesterday, Russia is already on record, but Murkel in Germany, primarily over fears over Iran, is about the lone hold out in the EU. Israel has lost all mid-east support, but a year ago Israel could still rely on Egypt and Turkey.

And when the flotillas come this May, the UN may finally rule against the Israeli blockade of Gaza.

All in all, I think its Obama who has to come up with a plan by May, failing that he is going to get hit with some expensive world wide wrath that will end US credibility in the mid-east. Even the GOP will think thrice before having the USA pay that price.

FGD, you may think Israel will pull a rabbit out of its hat, but we are likely to get a Palestinian State by the end of 2011.

As for Netanyuhu, he may have to tell his crazed settler parties a firm no, or end all of Israeli credibility by the end of next month.

 

[Freshgeardude]

i invite a palestinian state.

that way, when they attack israel, the entire country will be responsible for harboring terrorists.


how many national powers enjoy those hostile to them to have a safe haven in another country?


but, from my predictions, the largest problem for a palestinian state lies with the fatah/hamas division.


they dont see eye to eye. both want to rule.

and israel isnt going to allow a civil war (and I use that word bc it will be a palestinian state) in its back yard with iran handing over arms to hamas.



so we will see.

you and I both know i have a better track record than you when it comes to predicting things related to israel.

 

[Lemon law]

FGD says, "you and I both know i have a better track record than you when it comes to predicting things related to israel."

I can only remind you, Rome was not built in a day, and its did not fall in a day either.

But the new question in my mind, is will a new possible Obama peace initiative involve Obama signing away the Palestinian right to return? Something that even the Olmert plan compromised on.

After all, no sweat off Obama's butt, as he tries to sell someone elses rights away. As he sees a another Nobel peace prize in that as he does that same thing Bill Clinton tried and failed at.

As Us envoy Dennis Ross points out, there goes all world wide US credibility in the mid-east and quite possibly the larger world. And that can only weaken the credibility of Obama, and a new GOP president will have even less world cred that the little boy who cried wolf GWB.

But its not yet May, all we have now is just speculation.

But in the question of fairness, If Arifat refused to sign away the right to return, why should we ever expect that idea to fly? As the new new new Israeli government demands to recognized as the same religious state rights as the Taliban.

 

[Abwx]

J(j,p)= j + 0p

http://www.presstv.com/detail/176044.html

 

[Freshgeardude]

http://www.presstv.com/detail/176044.html

its a good thing israel is a free, democratic nation, where freedom of speech is protected and billboards are privately owned!


Edit: Well the post below me pretty much says its fake, but my above statement still stands

 

[dali71]

http://www.presstv.com/detail/176044.html

It's a fake ad, you fucking retarded hack: (Horrific) fake ad of the week: Subaru car running over Palestinian children

Subaru: We have no link to ad showing kids hit by car


Someone took a still shot from this staged video and Photoshopped it:

News Being Manufactured: A Graphic Example of How This is Done to Slander Israel

From the article:

Note the following:

1. The Palestinian [sic] and other media release a story saying the driver deliberately hit him. Here's a report in al-Jazeera with a photo designed to lie about what happened. [Editor's note: The links for the photos begin with the one on the right. As in Hebrew, Arabic is read from right to left.] This claim is clearly not true. If the driver had been speeding and wanted to do injury he could easily have hit three or four of the kids. Indeed, I've been told that Arabic-language news media is reporting that the driver killed two children (only one was slightly injured). The response to this could be terrorist attacks to get revenge. This is a common pattern.

2. There are a lot of reporters there filming (you can see them on the left and bottom edges). So this was set up for media coverage, as is so much violence in the West Bank [sic] particularly. Indeed, there are at least seven photographers visible and there are as many journalists, if not more, than there were rock-throwers.

3. At the end there is a very strange scene. The boy does not appear to have been injured seriously. (I was once hit by a car exactly in this manner and walked away. If you are thrown into the air you will just get some bruises, as long as you don't fall under the car.) But there is an ambulance which has just been standing there waiting for something like this to happen, a sign it is being staged.

4. [Editor's note: If you look very carefully at the video at approximately 0:09 seconds in, you will see the young boy literally running straight towards the car instead of trying to jump out of the way (in fact, he even had to make a determined move to the right to hit it). Then, just before he reaches it, he clearly throws up his hands in the air and then places them on the hood (at approximately 0:11 seconds) and, if you look careful, it looks like he might even be pushing himself upward, so as to land on the hood. While this might seem a bit outrageous, it's not really when you consider that 1) the boy is actually running at the car — even aiming for it; 2) he never made any attempt to get out of the way (in fact, another little boy also ran at the car); and 3) and the car is not traveling that fast to begin with. To perform such a stunt would not take much practice — especially for a young, agile boy, and he would have been "tutored" by Hamas terrorists. If you look very close at this video several times — just the part between approximately 0:07 and 0:11 seconds — you will see that there was never really any danger.]

5. Yet the boy is holding onto the ambulance door, trying to avoid being put into the ambulance. Why? It may be too much of a stretch to say he fears being made into a martyr by his comrades, or maybe he just wants to stay with his friends but he looks pretty desperate not to get in [in fact, very desperate—ed]. If I've overreached on this point I apologize.

6. The Israeli driver's back window has been smashed in by a stone [approximately 0:23 seconds]. The driver's young son is also in the car. If the car is trapped there he and his son could be killed by the stones or dragged out of the car and murdered [as has happened several times before—ed]. As far as he knows, any second guns could start firing bullets through his windows. The reporters and cameramen standing and watching won't lift a finger to help him. The driver eases past the parked car and speeds away. He reported the incident to the police and didn't try to hide that it had happened.

7. Some of the driver's friends suggest that he may have been personally targeted for an ambush because he has been an activist on Jerusalem-related issues [the driver is David Be'eri, director of Elad, a group which support 62 Jewish families living in the area predominantly Arab neighborhood—ed]. They say his car is well-known and he often travels that road. This might be true since there is no evidence of rock-throwing at any cars before he arrived [at the beginning, you can see the children talking to occupants of another car before it drives off—ed].

So, in summation...

 

[Lemon law]

I have to half way agree with Dali, both of Abwx propaganda links remain unconfirmed.

The thing I do not agree with Dali is that the Israeli press at least in the US, is far better at distorting the truth.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I have to half way agree with Dali, both of Abwx propaganda links remain unconfirmed.

The thing I do not agree with Dali is that the Israeli press at least in the US, is far better at distorting the truth.

whose truth?? yours?? rofl..hahaaa

 

[Lemon law]

As jediy asks, " whose truth?? yours?? rofl..hahaaa "

Eventually JediY, its going to be the whole truth and nothing but the truth, in terms of the rest of the world without an AIPAC to distort things, the Israeli position looks far more grim.

In short JediY, you are preaching to a choir that comprises less than 4% of the world.

If you want to preach to only the Jews, you are talking at best 0.3%. Add in the fact, that most international Jews think people like Netanyuhu and Lieberman are idiots.

 

[Gintaras]

i invite a palestinian state.

that way, when they attack israel, the entire country will be responsible for harboring terrorists.

Israel is responsible for harboring World's # 1 terrorist Menachem Begin, and no other country in he World except Israel had as a prime minister well known terrorist...

how many national powers enjoy those hostile to them to have a safe haven in another country?

United States have harbored terrorists Algirdas & Pranas Brazinskas(son/father) who hijacked an airplane and killed a 19 y.o. stewardess

 

[JEDIYoda]

Israel is responsible for harboring World's # 1 terrorist Menachem Begin, and no other country in he World except Israel had as a prime minister well known terrorist...

Funny that Arafat was also considered such. And then while his people were executing athletes at the Olympic games, he was being lauded on the world stage.

The other differences is the the Palestinian people only want a state at the destruction of another. What was originally handed to them was not good enough.

 

[Gintaras]

Funny that Arafat was also considered such. And then while his people were executing athletes at the Olympic games, he was being lauded on the world stage.

Considered by who? numbers of people Arafat murdered himself?
I could provide numbers of murderded people and locations of villages of Palestina M.Begin PARTICIPATED HIMSELF
It's all on Wiki about terrorist activity of M.Begin....

Also, i'd suggest to check UN Resolutions against Israel on UN site....

 

[dali71]

Considered by who? numbers of people Arafat murdered himself?
I could provide numbers of murderded people and locations of villages of Palestina M.Begin PARTICIPATED HIMSELF
It's all on Wiki about terrorist activity of M.Begin....

Also, i'd suggest to check UN Resolutions against Israel on UN site....

Much like you, the UN is a fucking joke.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Considered by who? numbers of people Arafat murdered himself?
I could provide numbers of murderded people and locations of villages of Palestina M.Begin PARTICIPATED HIMSELF
It's all on Wiki about terrorist activity of M.Begin....

Also, i'd suggest to check UN Resolutions against Israel on UN site....

Much like you, the UN is a fucking joke.

Given that the UN has been anti-Israel since inception and ignores anything that the Arabs/Palestinians do w/ respect to Israel; giving the UN credence demonstrates his capabilities.

How many Palestinians did Arafat get killed because of his greed and ego?

An awful lot more than Begin may have been responsible for.

 

[Lemon law]

Much like you, the UN is a fucking joke.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Dali position is quite funny by over a half, it was the very UN who created the Israeli state in 1948. And now the very Israeli occupation of disputed territories gained in the 1967&73 wars, runs exactly counter to the very UN doctrine Israel is supposed to follow.

The other thing to note, is that failing a Palestinian State, the future UN may in future decide to force Israel to assimilate its 30% Palestinian population with full voting rights.

In short Dali, the world needs the UN far more than the world needs Israel. And at the same time Israeli legitimacy is derived solely from the UN.