Q6600>Phenom II X6 ?

[RussianSensation]

I'm not so sure about that last statement: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/146?vs=99 . I still prefer Intel chips because I like having the absolute fastest, but there's no denying the incredible performance/dollar AMD is offering right now.

Looks to me from all the latest reviews, that unless you are doing video encoding / rendering work, a Core i5 760 cleans up just about any X6 processor in most every day tasks such as WinRAR, office, Photoshop CS, Games, etc.

Add to this lower idle and load power consumption and the lower price of the 760, and it's very hard to choose any X6 processor. That's why Fry's and Microcenter have to throw in cheap / free mobos for the deal.

And some key games like SC2 run far worse on AMD processors too. That doesn't help the situation. I will agree that AMD is better < $140, but after that AMD just can't compete imo.

 

[SolMiester]

Anyone know if there is any chance that I can put my boot drive from my Q6600 system (win7 64) in the new system and have any possibility of it working? I'm not looking fwd to the reinstall of all my programs/data. Fortunately all my HD video files are stored on other drives.

Yes, done it heaps of times...here is part of a doc from these forums on it!

To do this, replace the Bus Master drivers with standard generic drivers, as seen below. The drivers you need to be working on are found in Device Manager under "IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers". Ignore the Primary and Secondary, go for the other one. nForce users will only see one entry per controller.



If you're changing chipset (think in terms of drivers - Drivers for the VIA KT133 work fine with a KT400, but drivers for i815 won't work at all with an AMD760MPX), then you'll want to knock out the AGP drivers too to avoid video problems after the switch. Either uninstall them from the Control Panel, Add/Remove Programs or, in the case of VIA's 4in1, from the driver installation program. If you have neither (ie. SiS, ALi) or just can't be bothered, then observe the illustration below.



The standard PCI to PCI bridge disables everything AGP, but also makes sure that old AGP drivers aren't around to screw your system up.

You should be good to go now, but it's worth it to do some more cleaning up. Remove both USB controllers (don't do this if you have a USB keyboard/mouse, duh) and uninstall your display drivers. Also uninstall any other non-critical drivers from the Add/Remove Programs in the Control Panel, or any other option your driver installer has. They'll need to be reinstalled anyway, since Windows has to reinstall devices if they change INT# lines and they will.


SATA INTEL NOTE
Now, go into Device Manager, select "Show Hidden Devices" from the menu, and enter Non-Plug and Play Devices.

Unless you now look under "Non-Plug and Play Devices" and delete "IntelIDE" and "IntelPPM", you will get a failure after the swap.


This is a problem with WindowsXP SP2's SATA drivers for Intel systems and is not present on AMD systems. Indeed, it only manifests when leaving an Intel system to go to an AMD one.

I dont bother restarting windows, shut down, swap everything over and awat you go, failing a successful boot, try repair install!

 

[MrK6]

Looks to me from all the latest reviews, that unless you are doing video encoding / rendering work, a Core i5 760 cleans up just about any X6 processor in most every day tasks such as WinRAR, office, Photoshop CS, Games, etc.

Add to this lower idle and load power consumption and the lower price of the 760, and it's very hard to choose any X6 processor. That's why Fry's and Microcenter have to throw in cheap / free mobos for the deal.

And some key games like SC2 run far worse on AMD processors too. That doesn't help the situation. I will agree that AMD is better < $140, but after that AMD just can't compete imo.

Intel's CPU's are faster clock for clock, but as you can see by Anandtech's Bench, there are programs that will use all six cores and that's where the X6 comes out ahead. Real cores > logical cores, and if you have applications that can use them, AMD's CPUs are a bargain.

 

[spdfreak]

hm which fry's? the only sale i see for my local one is the 1055T for 150$

It was last weeks ad so that price is over...

 

[ModestGamer]

Looks to me from all the latest reviews, that unless you are doing video encoding / rendering work, a Core i5 760 cleans up just about any X6 processor in most every day tasks such as WinRAR, office, Photoshop CS, Games, etc.

Add to this lower idle and load power consumption and the lower price of the 760, and it's very hard to choose any X6 processor. That's why Fry's and Microcenter have to throw in cheap / free mobos for the deal.

And some key games like SC2 run far worse on AMD processors too. That doesn't help the situation. I will agree that AMD is better < $140, but after that AMD just can't compete imo.

didn't I adress this on the last page ? the ICC is alot of the root cuase. When not used and standard compilers are used those very same benchmarks don't alwyas look the same way.

go back to page one find the 2 posts where I posted like over a hald dozen links and read all of them.

 

[ModestGamer]

Intel's CPU's are faster clock for clock, but as you can see by Anandtech's Bench, there are programs that will use all six cores and that's where the X6 comes out ahead. Real cores > logical cores, and if you have applications that can use them, AMD's CPUs are a bargain.

not really.

 

[xd_1771]

Currently I have a Q6600 (@2.8GHz) on a MSI P6N SLI board. I also have a MSI 785GM-E65 board that I got with a Phenom II X2 555 on a Fry's deal. So I'm thinking about dropping a X6 in it to replace the Q6600 as my main system. I have someone to buy the Q6600 system (MB, CPU, RAM, and Vid card) for 250.00. I'm just wondering if this is a big enough upgrade to warrant the time and hassle of switching. Probably an all day job to reload windows and all my programs. Cost is probably a wash if I sell the X2 555.
Also, the 785GM board has onboard video with 128MB of sideport memory. If I want to use the hybrid crossfire, will there be any problem using the 4200 onboard video which is dx10 and a 5770 which is dx11? Does the system use the onboard video for normal desktop stuff and only use the card for 3d stuff like games?

I really don't think a Q6600 would beat out a Phenom II x6 - mostly because of the older 65nm technology often resulting in lower clock speeds when overclocked/at stock. HybridCrossfireX only works with the supported chipset and low-end cards (i.e. HD 3450, 4350) I think.

 

[RussianSensation]

didn't I adress this on the last page ? the ICC is alot of the root cuase.

Compiler differences? That's like saying tessellation runs better on NV hardware because they have better drivers for it. To the end user it doesn't matter if the compiler or the hardware is better when it comes to performance.

The bottom line is on average a Core i7 is about 20&#37; faster clock-for-clock vs. a Penryn, which itself is comparable to a Phenom 2. It's not just 1 review showing it, but all over the web. Therefore, clock-for-clock i5/i7 processors are at least 20% faster than current Stars architecture from AMD. Of course in some games when you apply high AA, this difference gets eroded. Still minimum frames is where Intel still shines.

In software than can utilize all of the cores (i.e., Distributed computing, video encoding, rendering), AMD X6 performs superbly; but that's not what you would call "every day tasks" for most people. I want to recommend a high end AMD system, but it's hard, unless you are talking about $100 X4 640 or $90 X3s or maybe a $140 955 BE.

 

[MrK6]

not really.

Yes, really.

 

[dguy6789]

not really.

The AMD bias is strong in this one. I like AMD as much as the next guy, the majority of my PCs over the last decade were AMD. That said, it's really silly to have a fanboy mentality and begin to push non truths. There is no way you can look at a review and come to a conclusion other than Intel's CPUs are faster clock for clock. AMD competes with Intel today by having much better performance per dollar chips, not by having purely faster chips. The Phenom 2 is a small bit slower than the Kentsfield based Core 2 Quads per clock.

 

[spdfreak]

I got it installed and running... runs nice and cool according to AMD overdrive- 22C idle and 42 full load with all 6 cores running prime. I'm still waiting on some new memory to arrive but I will try removing all the drivers and see if my current boot drive will play nice with the new cpu/mb.

One the intel vs AMD issue... This really is a lot of bang for the buck. 180.00 for the cpu and 40.00 for the MB (both from Frys). I realize that not everyone has a Frys close by so the bang/buck ratio will not be as compelling for some people as it is for me. Still, even at newegg prices, it is pretty amazing.
I could reuse my old vid card, but I will use the integrated vid for a short time until I find a really good deal on a card. With the new 6xxx series cards coming out soon, I think some really good deals will be available on 5xxx series cards. It also looks like there will be a fair amount of headroom for OCing with stock voltages and HSF. Should be fun to play with. I appreciate all the help.

 

[Arsynic]

oh heres some diassembled code and the authors findings.

http://www.swallowtail.org/naughty-intel.shtml

Absolutely damning.

 

[ModestGamer]

go read the links. then come back hear and we can have this discussion.

Compiler differences? That's like saying tessellation runs better on NV hardware because they have better drivers for it. To the end user it doesn't matter if the compiler or the hardware is better when it comes to performance.

The bottom line is on average a Core i7 is about 20% faster clock-for-clock vs. a Penryn, which itself is comparable to a Phenom 2. It's not just 1 review showing it, but all over the web. Therefore, clock-for-clock i5/i7 processors are at least 20% faster than current Stars architecture from AMD. Of course in some games when you apply high AA, this difference gets eroded. Still minimum frames is where Intel still shines.

In software than can utilize all of the cores (i.e., Distributed computing, video encoding, rendering), AMD X6 performs superbly; but that's not what you would call "every day tasks" for most people. I want to recommend a high end AMD system, but it's hard, unless you are talking about $100 X4 640 or $90 X3s or maybe a $140 955 BE.

 

[ModestGamer]

considering I own 4 AMd and 4 intel machines your barking up the wrong tree.

Intel delibrately rigged the Intel Compiler to turn off standard x86 SSE etc instructio9ns on non intel processors. this will lead to rampantly disparate benchmarks using the same code on different processors.

The AMD bias is strong in this one. I like AMD as much as the next guy, the majority of my PCs over the last decade were AMD. That said, it's really silly to have a fanboy mentality and begin to push non truths. There is no way you can look at a review and come to a conclusion other than Intel's CPUs are faster clock for clock. AMD competes with Intel today by having much better performance per dollar chips, not by having purely faster chips. The Phenom 2 is a small bit slower than the Kentsfield based Core 2 Quads per clock.

 

[ModestGamer]

Yes, really.

No, when the benchmarks are compiled on a compiler which purposefully defeats standard chip features on non intel hardware "the intel compiler is used for most benchmark software" then your going to get skewed inaccrurate results.

 

[MrK6]

No, when the benchmarks are compiled on a compiler which purposefully defeats standard chip features on non intel hardware "the intel compiler is used for most benchmark software" then your going to get skewed inaccrurate results.

Ah, I thought you meant "not really" in that AMD chips aren't a bargain. I agree that some of the benchmark software is skewed, but at least for my usage, Intel CPU's are faster clock-for-clock (mostly gaming).

 

[sandorski]

I got it installed and running... runs nice and cool according to AMD overdrive- 22C idle and 42 full load with all 6 cores running prime. I'm still waiting on some new memory to arrive but I will try removing all the drivers and see if my current boot drive will play nice with the new cpu/mb.

One the intel vs AMD issue... This really is a lot of bang for the buck. 180.00 for the cpu and 40.00 for the MB (both from Frys). I realize that not everyone has a Frys close by so the bang/buck ratio will not be as compelling for some people as it is for me. Still, even at newegg prices, it is pretty amazing.
I could reuse my old vid card, but I will use the integrated vid for a short time until I find a really good deal on a card. With the new 6xxx series cards coming out soon, I think some really good deals will be available on 5xxx series cards. It also looks like there will be a fair amount of headroom for OCing with stock voltages and HSF. Should be fun to play with. I appreciate all the help.

If you haven't already, I suggest spending another $30 for a Heatsink/Fan. The Retail HS/Fan is ridiculously loud.

 

[dguy6789]

considering I own 4 AMd and 4 intel machines your barking up the wrong tree.

Intel delibrately rigged the Intel Compiler to turn off standard x86 SSE etc instructio9ns on non intel processors. this will lead to rampantly disparate benchmarks using the same code on different processors.

Doesn't matter what you own, you're spouting nonsense. 3.2Ghz Phenom II vs 3.2Ghz Core 2 Quad: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/88?vs=48 Intel wins in performance, the end. There is no debate, you can't even try.

 

[spdfreak]

If you haven't already, I suggest spending another $30 for a Heatsink/Fan. The Retail HS/Fan is ridiculously loud.

It is not that loud, but it has a high pitch compared to my other system. My hearing is not that good due to years on the flight line and riding/racing motorcycles, lol. Other than the noise, is it adequate for cooling a moderate OC?

 

[bryanW1995]

Well, I pulled the trigger and got a X6 1075T from Fry's for 180.00. Seems like a good deal. I may try using the dip switch OC method on the MB but I really want CnQ to still work along with any other power saving features. I will have to research whether the 10% OC by the dip switch method OC's the memory too.
Anyone know if there is any chance that I can put my boot drive from my Q6600 system (win7 64) in the new system and have any possibility of it working? I'm not looking fwd to the reinstall of all my programs/data. Fortunately all my HD video files are stored on other drives.

I just went from a q9450 to an x6 1055t, kept same case/hd/etc, just changed out mobo and cpu. system immediately booted up with no problems at all (at least after I was able to borrow a cpu to flash the bios ). your mobo will almost certainly require a bios flash as well, if you can't borrow a cpu for that then contact the manufacturer and ask them for an updated bios chip (foxconn offered to send me one for free if I couldn't get it to work).

 

[bryanW1995]

In software than can utilize all of the cores (i.e., Distributed computing, video encoding, rendering), AMD X6 performs superbly;

yes, that's why I got it. well, that and we needed another computer at work so it was an excuse for me to upgrade for nothing.

I got it installed and running... runs nice and cool according to AMD overdrive- 22C idle and 42 full load with all 6 cores running prime. I'm still waiting on some new memory to arrive but I will try removing all the drivers and see if my current boot drive will play nice with the new cpu/mb.

One the intel vs AMD issue... This really is a lot of bang for the buck. 180.00 for the cpu and 40.00 for the MB (both from Frys). I realize that not everyone has a Frys close by so the bang/buck ratio will not be as compelling for some people as it is for me. Still, even at newegg prices, it is pretty amazing.
I could reuse my old vid card, but I will use the integrated vid for a short time until I find a really good deal on a card. With the new 6xxx series cards coming out soon, I think some really good deals will be available on 5xxx series cards. It also looks like there will be a fair amount of headroom for OCing with stock voltages and HSF. Should be fun to play with. I appreciate all the help.

not sure what type of performance you need, but gtx 460 768 has been in the 140-160 range for a while and is much faster than amd's cards in that price range.

 

[sandorski]

It is not that loud, but it has a high pitch compared to my other system. My hearing is not that good due to years on the flight line and riding/racing motorcycles, lol. Other than the noise, is it adequate for cooling a moderate OC?

It cools fine, but it is that loud. I keep my PC running 24/7 at 100% and before my 1055T I could sleep no problem. Got my 1055T and even Idling while sleeping was noticeably annoying compared to my previous X2 3800 using Retail HS/Fan running 24/7 100%. Replaced the 1055T's Retail HS/Fan within a week.

 

[RussianSensation]

yes, that's why I got it. well, that and we needed another computer at work so it was an excuse for me to upgrade for nothing.

:thumbsup: How does it compare to i7 920 @ 4.2 in SETI Bryan?

BTW, newegg has i5 760 for http://slickdeals.net/?pno=39663&lno=1&afsrc=1Intel Core i5-760 2.8GHz Socket 1156 Quad-Core Desktop Processor (Retail)for $170.99 when you enter code EMCYTZT162 at checkout. Pretty good deal too!

 

[soccerballtux]

:thumbsup: How does it compare to i7 920 @ 4.2 in SETI Bryan?

BTW, newegg has i5 760 for http://slickdeals.net/?pno=39663&lno=1&afsrc=1Intel Core i5-760 2.8GHz Socket 1156 Quad-Core Desktop Processor (Retail)for $170.99 when you enter code EMCYTZT162 at checkout. Pretty good deal too!

Hm. I still would love having 6 real processors though.

 

[spdfreak]

I just went from a q9450 to an x6 1055t, kept same case/hd/etc, just changed out mobo and cpu. system immediately booted up with no problems at all (at least after I was able to borrow a cpu to flash the bios ). your mobo will almost certainly require a bios flash as well, if you can't borrow a cpu for that then contact the manufacturer and ask them for an updated bios chip (foxconn offered to send me one for free if I couldn't get it to work).

Yeah, fortunately I had a X2 555 in that board and did the bios update before putting the X6 in. It is currently running on an old IDE HD that I stuck in to test the hardware. I'll try doing the swap from the Q6600 system as soon as my new memory arrives.