Info PSA- Public impeachments start today- UPDATE 2/5/2020- Trump wins.

[dphantom]

As I have suggested to you before if you wish to elevate the discourse on P&N you are welcome to engage in a productive discussion instead of just whining about it. You never take me up on it though, haha. I wonder why.

simply a continuing observation.

I think many would be willing to engage in discourse if the first thing said is not an insult such as yours with greenman but rather a genuine interest in the position of the other.

 

[ivwshane]

simply a continuing observation.

I think many would be willing to engage in discourse if the first thing said is not an insult such as yours with greenman but rather a genuine interest in the position of the other.

Sorry, not all opinions are worth having a discussion over. If someone thinks their opinion is valid then they are free to ignore arguments that don’t pertain to what they said and refute the counter claims that are related.

It’s obvious when someone knows their opinion is invalid because instead of countering arguments against their opinion they rely on playing the victim. It’s what you do constantly.

If you run into one asshole on a forum, well they were probably an asshole. If everyone you run into on a forum is an asshole, well then YOU are probably the asshole.

 

[Jhhnn]

just as wrong as for the Trump impeachment. Probably more as Biden is not yet president and not sure you could impeach him for misconduct in a previous elected position.

And, uhh, what's wrong with the Trump impeachment, other than him being your hero?

All this corrupt Bidens was just right wing conspiracy theory like the server bullshit until Trump picked up on them. The facts have been in the open for years. It never really gained any traction because those facts are to the contrary. But Trump needs to discredit Biden to further his campaign so he sends Rudy to sleaze around Ukraine to get the govt to endorse it, announce that they're investigating the Bidens. An incredible amount of slime could be generated from that, which was the whole point. When Zelensky resisted, Trump called him on the phone, told him what he wanted & then withheld the aid as a convincer. And he had a lot of help in doing all that. They've all been lying about it ever since.

Anybody who believes in the notion that he did it thinking he was acting in the interests of this country has shit fer brains.

 

[fskimospy]

simply a continuing observation.

I think many would be willing to engage in discourse if the first thing said is not an insult such as yours with greenman but rather a genuine interest in the position of the other.

So be the change you want to see!

 

[fskimospy]

just as wrong as for the Trump impeachment. Probably more as Biden is not yet president and not sure you could impeach him for misconduct in a previous elected position.

You do recognize of course that there is zero evidence for any misconduct by Biden, correct?

Contrast this to the massive evidence of misconduct by Trump. Just reams of it. Why compare the two?

 

[Jhhnn]

You do recognize of course that there is zero evidence for any misconduct by Biden, correct?

Contrast this to the massive evidence of misconduct by Trump. Just reams of it. Why compare the two?

Because he's a victim of decades of relentless right wing propaganda & disinformation. Lots of people are, sad to say. It gives 'em really shitty attitudes. A person needs that to defend Rand Paul's part in this. Or Trump's for that matter.

Deeply immoral & utterly wrong? So what? How else you gonna get the delicious libruhl tears? Fuck them people.

 

[NWRMidnight]

just as wrong as for the Trump impeachment. Probably more as Biden is not yet president and not sure you could impeach him for misconduct in a previous elected position.

What? There is ZERO evidence that Biden has done anything and mountains of proof that Trump is guilty as hell. So how can you say Trump's impeachment was wrong? The problem is the Republican's will have no choice but to manufacture evidence on Biden, if they can't find anything because of the position they put themselves in.

 

[Jaskalas]

The only party who would face prosecution in the new paradigm is the loser. A Dem wins Office and he or she is immune. That's what this all really means. "If you can keep it", something from Franklin about the Republic. We didn't.

Perhaps the winner will be left holding ashes.

Democracy only exists by consent of the people. And the more lawlessness Republicans permit, the less consent they have. Before you know it the law of the jungle will replace our absentee Constitution. Down this path.. ere long... the winner will be met with resistance... and force.

 

[pcgeek11]

Deliberately obtuse often?

Nope. The word "whistleblower" isn't even in the question.

 

[fskimospy]

Nope. The word "whistleblower" isn't even in the question.

I seriously don’t understand why you play these ‘who, me?’ games.

 

[pcgeek11]

I seriously don’t understand why you play these ‘who, me?’ games.

You should have just stopped here.

"I seriously don’t understand."

What was wrong with Rand Paul's question that the CJ would not read it?

 

[fskimospy]

You should have just stopped here.

"I seriously don’t understand."

What was wrong with Rand Paul's question that the CJ would not read it?

I’m very sure you know the answer to that.
So again you’re just playing ‘who, me?’ games and I don’t understand why.

Why not just say what you mean? That’s what adults do.

 

[BUTCH1]

You should have just stopped here.

"I seriously don’t understand."

What was wrong with Rand Paul's question that the CJ would not read it?

Because we have laws protecting whistle blowers and the CJ saw Rand's question as an opportunity for Rand to not just kiss, but crawl completely into the dungeon of Trump's asshole. Where many, (including you it seems) prefer to live.

 

[VRAMdemon]

I if anyone in law enforcement ever decided to solicit anonymous tips and developed a mechanism to protect the identity of the tipsters, that would be totally unconstitutional? And wrong, and an affront to the rights of criminals everywhere?

So there would never be a well publicized nationwide program with a phone number and official forms and to facilitate anonymity and billboards encouraging criminals to rat out their cohorts, because that would be totally unconstitutional.

Graham is more a part of the swamp and Paul is attempting to be a swamp drainer (not working). His schtick is he'd like to expose any coordination with the whistleblower and Graham would prefer to preserve his ability to make backroom deals with future whistleblowers himself.

 

[cytg111]

You should have just stopped here.

"I seriously don’t understand."

What was wrong with Rand Paul's question that the CJ would not read it?

Why dont you ask CJ that... arh, you of course with all your empathy and in depth knowledge of the law know better........ There is a term for this condition...

 

[mikeymikec]

Is there a date for when the Republicans are officially giving Trump a free pass to do whatever the hell he likes?

Also, I'm a little hazy on the details: Were any witnesses called at this trial?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Is there a date for when the Republicans are officially giving Trump a free pass to do whatever the hell he likes?

February 20, 2017

wait, July 27, 2016

Trump asked Russia to find Clinton’s emails. On or around the same day, Russians targeted her accounts

"Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing, I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press," Trump said in a July 27, 2016, news conference.

www.pbs.org

 

[dank69]

Is there a date for when the Republicans are officially giving Trump a free pass to do whatever the hell he likes?

Also, I'm a little hazy on the details: Were any witnesses called at this trial?

They cede their powers of oversight of the executive branch on Wednesday, I think.

 

[dawp]

They cede their powers of oversight of the executive branch on Wednesday, I think.

yup, this will give trump free reign on what he will do, anyone who says otherwise, (I'm looking at you Lamar) is either delusional and doesn't give a fuck until it comes back and bites them in the ass, and it will, the republicans are short sighted, as usual.

 

[Bitek]

I expect that the chances of Trump winning have gone up significantly as a result of this "trial" as it is now just fine to enlist any and all aid to interfere in elections, purely in the national interest of course /s.

The precedent has now been set.

Yes, I think what should be a major liability is being turned into an advantage due to mishandling.

The econ should remain strong, and this heavily favors an incumbent.
High info voters (like atpn) can argue about Trump's hand in this, but it's not going to change anything on a national scale.

So whats the D strategy to overcome this?

Only new free progressive programs? (M4A, college, etc)

Ok.. but my experience is will be very divisive in a general.

What about Trump's historic levels of corruption?
Lots of elections are won by dragging your opponent down. He will certainly be playing dirty.

Do Congressional Ds not buy into this idea? If so, how are their actions supporting this? If anything, it's neutral to perhaps slightly undermined.

Jesus, if tables were turned and this was Obama doing at this stuff, we'd be having hearings with all the porn stars and rape victims; dragging in all his involved kids, let alone all the other clowns and scammers in his orbit being paraded in for televised hearings.

He can't claim EP on so of them, and put the legal screws on those that resist. Lawyers get expensive and Trump won't pay them back. They'll talk eventually.

 

[cytg111]

I would stop considering the other side the other side and consider them criminals that needs to be delt with as such. ie Moscow Mitch is dirty... get the kompromat then. Use it.
But thats just me.

 

[fskimospy]

Yes, I think what should be a major liability is being turned into an advantage due to mishandling.

The econ should remain strong, and this heavily favors an incumbent.
High info voters (like atpn) can argue about Trump's hand in this, but it's not going to change anything on a national scale.

So whats the D strategy to overcome this?

Only new free progressive programs? (M4A, college, etc)

Ok.. but my experience is will be very divisive in a general.

What about Trump's historic levels of corruption?
Lots of elections are won by dragging your opponent down. He will certainly be playing dirty.

Do Congressional Ds not buy into this idea? If so, how are their actions supporting this? If anything, it's neutral to perhaps slightly undermined.

Jesus, if tables were turned and this was Obama doing at this stuff, we'd be having hearings with all the porn stars and rape victims; dragging in all his involved kids, let alone all the other clowns and scammers in his orbit being paraded in for televised hearings.

He can't claim EP on so of them, and put the legal screws on those that resist. Lawyers get expensive and Trump won't pay them back. They'll talk eventually.

While impeachment seems like a significant win for Democrats I do agree they shouldn’t stop there. If anything they should keep calling witnesses and potentially impeach him again.

I also agree that they should be holding hearings into his sexual misconduct, including the assault and rape allegations. Congress should be reminding the women of America of exactly who Trump is and who Republicans are defending.

Don’t stop there though. Hold hearings on his finances, hold hearings on Trump’s history of what appears to be tax fraud. Hold hearings on Trump SoHo and how his kids should be in prison.

 

[ivwshane]

While impeachment seems like a significant win for Democrats I do agree they shouldn’t stop there. If anything they should keep calling witnesses and potentially impeach him again.

I also agree that they should be holding hearings into his sexual misconduct, including the assault and rape allegations. Congress should be reminding the women of America of exactly who Trump is and who Republicans are defending.

Don’t stop there though. Hold hearings on his finances, hold hearings on Trump’s history of what appears to be tax fraud. Hold hearings on Trump SoHo and how his kids should be in prison.

I disagree. It would look petty and vindictive and it has the possibility of affecting the cases that exist that will be brought against him once he’s out of office. Plus I think such a strategy would energize his base even more to show up in November. It may also cause voter fatigue for those wanting to vote for someone other than trump.

I say stick with the same track they are on, call the people the senate should have called to testify and have them expose even more damming evidence.

 

[fskimospy]

I disagree. It would look petty and vindictive and it has the possibility of affecting the cases that exist that will be brought against him once he’s out of office.

I don't think investigating him would look petty or vindictive at all, it only looks that way if you aren't uncovering serious wrongdoing and we all know with absolute certainty it will uncover serious wrongdoing.

Plus I think such a strategy would energize his base even more to show up in November. It may also cause voter fatigue for those wanting to vote for someone other than trump.

His base is already energized so what they will do should be ignored.

I say stick with the same track they are on, call the people the senate should have called to testify and have them expose even more damming evidence.

They should do that as well, but they should be investigating EVERYTHING. Every day from now until November should have a hearing on some element of his corruption. Every single day.

The Republicans didn't care about appearing petty and vindictive, although they clearly were. The Republicans didn't care about energizing Clinton's base, they just tried to damage their opponent as much as possible and it worked. Democrats should stop basing their electoral strategy on whether or not it will make Trump supporters mad.

 

[ivwshane]

I don't think investigating him would look petty or vindictive at all, it only looks that way if you aren't uncovering serious wrongdoing and we all know with absolute certainty it will uncover serious wrongdoing.



His base is already energized so what they will do should be ignored.



They should do that as well, but they should be investigating EVERYTHING. Every day from now until November should have a hearing on some element of his corruption. Every single day.

The Republicans didn't care about appearing petty and vindictive, although they clearly were. The Republicans didn't care about energizing Clinton's base, they just tried to damage their opponent as much as possible and it worked. Democrats should stop basing their electoral strategy on whether or not it will make Trump supporters mad.

While that may be true, you are asking democrats to do things they aren’t very good at, playing dirty politics. Hell, we already have anti republicans on this board complaining about how the impeachment was handled and blaming democrats for its outcome.

Why confuse or weaken the message, let republicans play the fools. Sure the democrat investigations would be based on facts and actual wrong doing but with the rampant both-side-rism we have in this country, it certainly won’t be portrayed as such.

I get the desire to have democrats fight back but democrats are their own worst enemies, why give them another task to fuck up?