Proud to Be an American but my Neighbor is Not

[yllus]

Originally posted by: tweakmm

Originally posted by: Chumpman

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: SViscusi

Originally posted by: Chumpman
Looks like irrefutable evidence to me.

What eveidence? Up to this point there is nothing except one persons interpretation of some poll that no one else has seen.

Haven't you been paying attention? Bush redefined 'irrefutable evidence' as one or a few persons' interpretation of some data that no one else has seen.

If you have any facts to back up your statement I may believe you, but as it stands the only evidence presented in this thread shows Democrats to be less patriotic than Republicans.

Sounds fitting.
Baaaaaaaa.

Baaaaaa is right. I'm a liberal-moderate who was cautiously pro-war because I figure the means justified the ends, but it's ludicrous, on this July 6th 2003, to still not have found ANY evidence of WMDs in Iraq. It was bull, but it was a good cause so I won't raise an objection. I'm willing to bet money that the majority who call themselves "Democrats" think the same way. Cautious support means we're willing to consider both sides of issues; not burst into the national anthem on cue like the dahunans of the world do.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: Chumpman

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: SViscusi

Originally posted by: Chumpman
Looks like irrefutable evidence to me.

What eveidence? Up to this point there is nothing except one persons interpretation of some poll that no one else has seen.

Haven't you been paying attention? Bush redefined 'irrefutable evidence' as one or a few persons' interpretation of some data that no one else has seen.

If you have any facts to back up your statement I may believe you, but as it stands the only evidence presented in this thread shows Democrats to be less patriotic than Republicans.

So where is this evidence you speak of?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel

The very best line I've heard since this Iraqi thing started is "You can't support the troops and not support the war" This line cut the legs off many a war protester.. using patriotism... - pat riot ism - against a protest works well... if done by a scoundrel... with a Mal heart...

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Who said that?

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Who said that?

Yoda... of course..

 

[B00ne]

Wow guys being born in the US must be so fvcking hard - what an awesome achievement - u gotta be proud to be American.



I guess I will never understand how one can be proud about the fact to be born (in a certain place). But hey what would an American be without Machoego - probably excitizenized...

 

[railer]

...and the Germans were extremely patriotic under Hitler.

...and the Japanese were extrely patriotic during the 1930's.

What's the point?

That the more mindless and less able to think for yourself the more patriotic you are?

It's not like you people had to pass a test to become Americans. You just happened to randomly be born here. You could have been born anywhere. Dumb-asses....

 

[Siddhartha]

It did not take long for this thread to turn into liberal bashing.

 

[drewshin]

yeah there are numbnuts who believe that "pride" in our nation consists of trying to take back the hot dog eating contest back from that skinny japanese guy, where is our national pride, why can't we find an american who can gorge themselves as well as this guy can? how can we let the japanese take this away from us?

 

[AvesPKS]

Originally posted by: B00ne
Wow guys being born in the US must be so fvcking hard - what an awesome achievement - u gotta be proud to be American.



I guess I will never understand how one can be proud about the fact to be born (in a certain place). But hey what would an American be without Machoego - probably excitizenized...

You are referring to two different classifications. I am of German, English, and French descent. Of this, I have no control over. I am also of American nationality. However, I could choose to become Australian, or Canadian, or South African with regard to nationality. But, I think I'll choose to stick with the US.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Brie

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

So does this mean that the more frightened you are the prouder you get. It would make sense if pride is just the ego's way of pretending a deeper self doesn't feel like the worst in the world. Anything that comes along to threaten one's substitute and vicarious source of pride would naturally tend to awaken that hidden feeling and feel like a threat, and demand a reaffirmation of its worth. Wouldn't it be something if flag waving isn't just our inferiority complex trying to deny itself? What a catch 22 that would be.

This does mean serious implications for "group think." There is no doubt that 9/11 pushed many of us to our limits and as a result we "came together" as a country. I also believe that 9/11 is controlling our beliefs and opinions in a group think way. As I have said before I am a conservative and I am "extremely proud of my country" but it makes me sick to watch FOX news with all of the flags spammed over the screen. It just screams jingoism doesnt it?!? While I think you are generally crazy Moonbeam, I think you may have a point here. While we may not be able to discuss it yet due to 9/11, I can easily see all of the talking heads analyzing our behavior "post 9/11" in about 5 years.

Durring WW2, Americans experiencied similar events and responded with a similar "group think." While this may of not been bad for our country, it is true that we did ignore problems with our country, and blindly accept heightened security and controlled press. However we did survive as a nation and came out on top after the war. I am not saying that we deride President Bush for his "post 9/11" policies. But Moonbeam does have a point that we cannot fall into the trap of blindly accepting what is fed to us. I am certanily looking at all current policies presented in a historical light since I fear I am blinded by the effects of 9/11.

I would trust you alot more, Brie, if you weren't named after a French cheese. Anything French, these days, is quite suspect, but anyway that was a rather intelligent post for a conservative. You may face a difficult task, if you develop a real habit of examining group think carefully, of calling yourself, eventually, anything at all. Anyway it's always nice to see somebody who can look deeper than skin deep. I will certainly be paying attention to what you have to say. I think conservatism is one of the legs of a truth that is some third way.

 

[Brie]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

I would trust you alot more, Brie, if you weren't named after a French cheese. Anything French, these days, is quite suspect, but anyway that was a rather intelligent post for a conservative. You may face a difficult task, if you develop a real habit of examining group think carefully, of calling yourself, eventually, anything at all. Anyway it's always nice to see somebody who can look deeper than skin deep. I will certainly be paying attention to what you have to say. I think conservatism is one of the legs of a truth that is some third way.

So being named after a French cheese automatically makes me French or a French lover? I live in the US and have never traveled to France. I just like brie and cheese in general thats all.

I am glad to see that you use facts and are more than willing to support your opinions with facts (even though i may disagree with your opinions). Having a difference of opinion is not the end of the world in this country I dont care what the circumstances.

 

[Moonbeam]

Hehe, Brie. The cheese thingi was a joke. I'm one of the formost leading proponents of French cheese. Having differences of opinion is what makes a ball game, right. You haven't been here long. I may not be what I seem.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Hehe, Brie. The cheese thingi was a joke. I'm one of the formost leading proponents of French cheese. Having differences of opinion is what makes a ball game, right. You haven't been here long. I may not be what I seem.

Some cheese leaves a bitter taste... Brie is not one of those ... In fact, I like Brie.. and you, the reflection of all sanity... a proponent of French cheese and all, no doubt, will enjoy...

Good to see your head back on and all....

 

[Siddhartha]

I get the willies when I hear and read people shout about their patriotism, pride, and love for their country.
These super "I am proud of my country" patriots are locked into "my country right or wrong" and "Love it or leave it" mindsets. They wrap themselves and their hateful bigoted beliefs in the flag.

The US would be a better country with less patriotism and more people thinking, asking questions, and demanding answers.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
I get the willies when I hear and read people shout about their patriotism, pride, and love for their country.
These super "I am proud of my country" patriots are locked into "my country right or wrong" and "Love it or leave it" mindsets. They wrap themselves and their hateful bigoted beliefs in the flag.

The US would be a better country with less patriotism and more people thinking, asking questions, and demanding answers.

This is part of being an American... we ought not settle for less than the most we can be... If we disagree... and say nothing we are termed apathetic... if we say something or protest we are called anti American.. I'm full of opinions... and enough breath to shout and shout... once I know what I feel about something.. it is that finding that takes time... to go off half cocked is a danger... but, getting informed is also a danger... one never knows what one doesn't know... to infer is, at times, the best we can do, however..

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
I get the willies when I hear and read people shout about their patriotism, pride, and love for their country.
These super "I am proud of my country" patriots are locked into "my country right or wrong" and "Love it or leave it" mindsets. They wrap themselves and their hateful bigoted beliefs in the flag.

The US would be a better country with less patriotism and more people thinking, asking questions, and demanding answers.

exactly, but that is true for any country

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
I get the willies when I hear and read people shout about their patriotism, pride, and love for their country.
These super "I am proud of my country" patriots are locked into "my country right or wrong" and "Love it or leave it" mindsets. They wrap themselves and their hateful bigoted beliefs in the flag.

The US would be a better country with less patriotism and more people thinking, asking questions, and demanding answers.

Hmmm . . . so is it your contention that it is not patriotic to think, ask questions and demand answers. I would say that it is quite the contrary.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
I get the willies when I hear and read people shout about their patriotism, pride, and love for their country.
These super "I am proud of my country" patriots are locked into "my country right or wrong" and "Love it or leave it" mindsets. They wrap themselves and their hateful bigoted beliefs in the flag.

The US would be a better country with less patriotism and more people thinking, asking questions, and demanding answers.

Hmmm . . . so is it your contention that it is not patriotic to think, ask questions and demand answers. I would say that it is quite the contrary.

Me too, but obviously there are also two kinds of patriotism and the kind you're talking about doesn't usually go by that name.
=======================

LunarRay: This is part of being an American... we ought not settle for less than the most we can be... If we disagree... and say nothing we are termed apathetic... if we say something or protest we are called anti American.. I'm full of opinions... and enough breath to shout and shout... once I know what I feel about something.. it is that finding that takes time... to go off half cocked is a danger... but, getting informed is also a danger... one never knows what one doesn't know... to infer is, at times, the best we can do, however..
----------------------------
I think we can infer with the humility of knowing we don't know. It helps with that horrid attachment to ideas.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
I get the willies when I hear and read people shout about their patriotism, pride, and love for their country.
These super "I am proud of my country" patriots are locked into "my country right or wrong" and "Love it or leave it" mindsets. They wrap themselves and their hateful bigoted beliefs in the flag.

The US would be a better country with less patriotism and more people thinking, asking questions, and demanding answers.

Hmmm . . . so is it your contention that it is not patriotic to think, ask questions and demand answers. I would say that it is quite the contrary.

Me too, but obviously there are also two kinds of patriotism and the kind you're talking about doesn't usually go by that name.
=======================

LunarRay: This is part of being an American... we ought not settle for less than the most we can be... If we disagree... and say nothing we are termed apathetic... if we say something or protest we are called anti American.. I'm full of opinions... and enough breath to shout and shout... once I know what I feel about something.. it is that finding that takes time... to go off half cocked is a danger... but, getting informed is also a danger... one never knows what one doesn't know... to infer is, at times, the best we can do, however..
----------------------------
I think we can infer with the humility of knowing we don't know. It helps with that horrid attachment to ideas.

Yeah... ... what I hate is when a 'know-it-all' decides he/she in fact, knows all and goes about with venom and sharp tongue crusading and pushing their notion of right using as facts the opinion of like minded 'know-it-alls'...

 

[etech]

Yeah... ... what I hate is when a 'know-it-all' decides he/she in fact, knows all and goes about with venom and sharp tongue crusading and pushing their notion of right using as facts the opinion of like minded 'know-it-alls'...

You mean like you and moonie?


Anyway IMHO, it is the patriot that questions in a desire to better but does not desire to tear down. It is the patriot that uses facts but rejects innuendo and rumor as a basis of decision instead of spreading them.

I've said it before, I see the greatest danger from the cynical that have no belief in the overall viability of our system of government and can only see the mistakes without also seeing the inherent strength that lies in it.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: etech

Yeah... ... what I hate is when a 'know-it-all' decides he/she in fact, knows all and goes about with venom and sharp tongue crusading and pushing their notion of right using as facts the opinion of like minded 'know-it-alls'...

You mean like you and moonie?


Anyway IMHO, it is the patriot that questions in a desire to better but does not desire to tear down. It is the patriot that uses facts but rejects innuendo and rumor as a basis of decision instead of spreading them.

I've said it before, I see the greatest danger from the cynical that have no belief in the overall viability of our system of government and can only see the mistakes without also seeing the inherent strength that lies in it.

Them Patriots back in 1776 did their darndest to tear down the government.. in fact, some where it says so in Jefferson's text. If we only use facts and the folks who have those facts don't give em to us.. I guess we twiddle our thumbs awaiting their pleasure... I spose your comments are a way.... to view it... I prefer to be the government... not just the few back in DC... they govern with the consent of the governed... me... and I'll tear em down if I want... especially if they don't do as I want... even if you and the other 300 million disagree I still see it my way... me and Jefferson... and those other fifty something folks..

"You mean like you and moonie?" I don't have any venom...... I'm a constrictor... or hugger...as it were... Moonie... he's a jester... in a room of mirrors...

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I've said it before, I see the greatest danger from the cynical that have no belief in the overall viability of our system of government and can only see the mistakes without also seeing the inherent strength that lies in it.

The principles underlying the original system (not necessarily all the practices) are indeed a great strength. Alas, various corrupting influences (primarily money) have warped our system of government into a poor representation of America's great potential. The vast majority of countries that have embraced capitalism and democracy have done it b/c those ideas were better than the alternatives. Unfortunately, the current administration (and a significant number of Americans) believe our ideas require the flexing of American military and economic muscles.

I do agree that our greatest threat is from within . . . but it's the lack of criticism not too much that is the problem.

 

[Brie]

Originally posted by: etech

I've said it before, I see the greatest danger from the cynical that have no belief in the overall viability of our system of government and can only see the mistakes without also seeing the inherent strength that lies in it.

I believe that some of the greatest Americans aspired to just what your describing. Also, i havent seen anyone in this forum say that the "overall viabillity of the system" is invalid. While people may complain (sometimes without reason) their greatest belief is indeed in the "overall viabillity of the system."