Proud to Be an American but my Neighbor is Not

[etech]

Originally posted by: Brie

Originally posted by: etech

I've said it before, I see the greatest danger from the cynical that have no belief in the overall viability of our system of government and can only see the mistakes without also seeing the inherent strength that lies in it.

I believe that some of the greatest Americans aspired to just what your describing. Also, i havent seen anyone in this forum say that the "overall viabillity of the system" is invalid. While people may complain (sometimes without reason) their greatest belief is indeed in the "overall viabillity of the system."

You're new here, read more posts and what underlies them for awhile.

 

[Brie]

Ya I know im new...Im just saying ex:

When people complain about the 2000 election their fundamental believe is indeed in the system. The system we live in is such that America can have a possibly incorrect/invalid/illegal election, but the strength of the system is such that it stands.

In America you can complain about whatever you want without fear of life or limb. In fact one may find that he or she has the support of others including representation of their beliefs in Congress. The strength of the system is such that people can complain about errors in it and correct them (passing amendments).

Even groups such as Communists and Fascists believe that they can express their beliefs within our system.....Their goal is to change that system to their goals. The system that is America is eternal. We may change it to our beliefs of the time but the system still stands. What I mean to say is that everyone in this forum realizes the eternality of the American system and it is certainly viable.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: Brie

Originally posted by: etech

I've said it before, I see the greatest danger from the cynical that have no belief in the overall viability of our system of government and can only see the mistakes without also seeing the inherent strength that lies in it.

I believe that some of the greatest Americans aspired to just what your describing. Also, i havent seen anyone in this forum say that the "overall viabillity of the system" is invalid. While people may complain (sometimes without reason) their greatest belief is indeed in the "overall viabillity of the system."

You're new here, read more posts and what underlies them for awhile.

etech has very little faith in the viability of our system of government to produce people who can see the mistakes we make while understanding our underlying strengths. He thinks we need to be managed like sheep and kept in the fold. You never know what those black sheep who wonder off may get into. Alles in ordnung.

 

[LunarRay]

Pretty soon, Moonbeam, it will be cousin charlie who you've invited to the forum... fresh from the farm... We sheep are not following the dictate of Herr himself... and all the peace will be shattered as we wonder about in search of answers...

Of course the system is Viable... survives despite some really idiotic moves by some.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: Brie

Originally posted by: etech

I've said it before, I see the greatest danger from the cynical that have no belief in the overall viability of our system of government and can only see the mistakes without also seeing the inherent strength that lies in it.

I believe that some of the greatest Americans aspired to just what your describing. Also, i havent seen anyone in this forum say that the "overall viabillity of the system" is invalid. While people may complain (sometimes without reason) their greatest belief is indeed in the "overall viabillity of the system."

You're new here, read more posts and what underlies them for awhile.

etech has very little faith in the viability of our system of government to produce people who can see the mistakes we make while understanding our underlying strengths. He thinks we need to be managed like sheep and kept in the fold. You never know what those black sheep who wonder off may get into. Alles in ordnung.

moonie, I would appreciate it if you would not make up and post these lies about me.

Get some help moonie, please.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: etech

Yeah... ... what I hate is when a 'know-it-all' decides he/she in fact, knows all and goes about with venom and sharp tongue crusading and pushing their notion of right using as facts the opinion of like minded 'know-it-alls'...

You mean like you and moonie?


Anyway IMHO, it is the patriot that questions in a desire to better but does not desire to tear down. It is the patriot that uses facts but rejects innuendo and rumor as a basis of decision instead of spreading them.

I've said it before, I see the greatest danger from the cynical that have no belief in the overall viability of our system of government and can only see the mistakes without also seeing the inherent strength that lies in it.
-------------------
You're new here, read more posts and what underlies them for awhile.
--------------------
moonie, I would appreciate it if you would not make up and post these lies about me.

Get some help moonie, please.
--------------------------------

You see what I mean? When etech tries to slime you it's for America, but when you point that out to him he thinks you're mentally ill.

Strikes me you're a walking advertisement, etech, for exactly what I said.

 

[Brie]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

When etech tries to slime you it's for America...

At least he believes in the viability of our system unlike other wackos out there

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Brie

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

When etech tries to slime you it's for America...

At least he believes in the viability of our system unlike other wackos out there

It's the people that make it viable... not the system that make the people viable.. all the people... even the wacko and the general... we... nay... I am the government... and wish it to be reflective of my ideals..

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Brie

Originally posted by: etech

I've said it before, I see the greatest danger from the cynical that have no belief in the overall viability of our system of government and can only see the mistakes without also seeing the inherent strength that lies in it.

I believe that some of the greatest Americans aspired to just what your describing. Also, i havent seen anyone in this forum say that the "overall viabillity of the system" is invalid. While people may complain (sometimes without reason) their greatest belief is indeed in the "overall viabillity of the system."
---------------------------
At least he believes in the viability of our system unlike other wackos out there
-------------------------

So is this two contradictory statements, or are the whackos somewhere else than out there on the forum? I notice stuff like being attacked and then begging not to be attacked when I point that out or saying people believe in the system and then they don't. We only have your words.

 

[Brie]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: Brie

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

When etech tries to slime you it's for America...

At least he believes in the viability of our system unlike other wackos out there

It's the people that make it viable... not the system that make the people viable.. all the people... even the wacko and the general... we... nay... I am the government... and wish it to be reflective of my ideals..

Yes I agree that it is the people who make the system. As much as i would hate to admit it, the non contributors (imho) to the system are making it better.

It is good to be proud of the system that 'you' (any person) as an American helped form. To categorize people as non-Americans is showing one's lack of understanding of the system that is America.

 

[Moonbeam]

If what some people call American is American than to be un-American is fine by me. But when you are unconsciously insecure and frightened any deviation from your norm is seen as deeply subversive and dangerously traitorous too. The need to conform, the impulse to circle jerk in ditto head syncopation is a herd instinct brought on by fear. It is the unreasoned instinct of monkeys that throw branches and sticks and poo from trees as the scream in terrified impotency.

 

[maXroOt]

im sorry, but i can not take you seriously if you think ONE poll = evidence. we werent even given how the poll was taken. have u ever taken a statistics class? if not, then u have to realize that EVERYTHING can influence a poll. the way the question is phrased, the manner in how it is asked, the order the responses are given in. ask a statistician, even 20 polls != evidence

and why does dissent = unpatriotic??? why does criticizing your country mean u dont like america? i can HATE the current things that our president is doing but still be proud to be an american for other reasons

as hitlers second in command said
?The people can always be brought to do the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.?

and


"TO ANNOUNCE THAT THERE MUST BE NO CRITICISM OF THE

PRESIDENT,OR THAT WE ARE TO STAND BY THE PPRESIDENT,

RIGHT OR WRONG, IS NOT ONLY UNPATRIOTIC AND SERVILE,

BUT IS MORALLY TREASONABLE TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC."

-- Theodore Roosevelt



if anything the usfg is being unpatriotic. you know that little thing called the patriot act? yea, takes away tons of civil liberities. allows secret arrests, and being put in jail indefinitely w/o a trial or even charges being brought against u. u wont even get a lawyer. for some reason i dont think that is freedom


oh, and btw, nationalism is bullshit. how are we better then someone? u dont see something wrong w/ saying, well i was born in this country and u were born in another country (w/o a choice) so i am a better human being then you. thats like saying the rich are better then the poor, etc etc. peter singer puts it pretty well when he compares nationalism to heimlich himmler

 

[Sternfan]

"Moonie, most Americans unlike you do not have deep neuroses consisting of constant fear and self-hate. We can take pride in the fact that our country is recovering from a despicable act of terrorism and is moving forward"

My God at least somebody said it, etech you are right on keep fighting dude.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Sternfan
"Moonie, most Americans unlike you do not have deep neuroses consisting of constant fear and self-hate. We can take pride in the fact that our country is recovering from a despicable act of terrorism and is moving forward"

My God at least somebody said it, etech you are right on keep fighting dude.

Ah me, you know so little about yourself there's no place you can begin. You don't know what you feel.

 

[Sternfan]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Sternfan
"Moonie, most Americans unlike you do not have deep neuroses consisting of constant fear and self-hate. We can take pride in the fact that our country is recovering from a despicable act of terrorism and is moving forward"

My God at least somebody said it, etech you are right on keep fighting dude.

Ah me, you know so little about yourself there's no place you can begin. You don't know what you feel.

I can't even imagine how sad your life really is. I laugh at the mindless dribble you call conversation.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Sternfan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Sternfan
"Moonie, most Americans unlike you do not have deep neuroses consisting of constant fear and self-hate. We can take pride in the fact that our country is recovering from a despicable act of terrorism and is moving forward"

My God at least somebody said it, etech you are right on keep fighting dude.

Ah me, you know so little about yourself there's no place you can begin. You don't know what you feel.

I can't even imagine how sad your life really is. I laugh at the mindless dribble you call conversation.

I know, you need to to protect yourself from seeing. The more you contemplate me the sicker you will become and the more desparate your need will be to hurt. It's how we are when we are unconscious of what we feel. I've seen it all a million times before. It's called projection. The mirror is the ugliest of things. In me you see the self you cannot see.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Sternfan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Sternfan
"Moonie, most Americans unlike you do not have deep neuroses consisting of constant fear and self-hate. We can take pride in the fact that our country is recovering from a despicable act of terrorism and is moving forward"

My God at least somebody said it, etech you are right on keep fighting dude.

Ah me, you know so little about yourself there's no place you can begin. You don't know what you feel.

I can't even imagine how sad your life really is. I laugh at the mindless dribble you call conversation.

You do not know... the question, however, is do you know you do not know?

He who knows, and knows he knows,
He is wise - follow him.
He who knows, and knows not he knows,
He is asleep - wake him.
He who knows not, and knows not he knows not,
He is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not, and knows he knows not,
He is a child - teach him.

 

[Sternfan]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: Sternfan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Sternfan
"Moonie, most Americans unlike you do not have deep neuroses consisting of constant fear and self-hate. We can take pride in the fact that our country is recovering from a despicable act of terrorism and is moving forward"

My God at least somebody said it, etech you are right on keep fighting dude.

Ah me, you know so little about yourself there's no place you can begin. You don't know what you feel.

I can't even imagine how sad your life really is. I laugh at the mindless dribble you call conversation.

You do not know... the question, however, is do you know you do not know?

He who knows, and knows he knows,
He is wise - follow him.
He who knows, and knows not he knows,
He is asleep - wake him.
He who knows not, and knows not he knows not,
He is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not, and knows he knows not,
He is a child - teach him.

I vote to close this thread, empty a clip into burn it and put it out with urine then dig a hole dump it in cover it with dirt and build a house on top of it.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
I get the willies when I hear and read people shout about their patriotism, pride, and love for their country.
These super "I am proud of my country" patriots are locked into "my country right or wrong" and "Love it or leave it" mindsets. They wrap themselves and their hateful bigoted beliefs in the flag.

The US would be a better country with less patriotism and more people thinking, asking questions, and demanding answers.

Hmmm . . . so is it your contention that it is not patriotic to think, ask questions and demand answers. I would say that it is quite the contrary.

No I meant that the US would be a better country with fewer people subscribing to "my country right or wrong" type of dogma.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Sternfan

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: Sternfan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Sternfan
"Moonie, most Americans unlike you do not have deep neuroses consisting of constant fear and self-hate. We can take pride in the fact that our country is recovering from a despicable act of terrorism and is moving forward"

My God at least somebody said it, etech you are right on keep fighting dude.

Ah me, you know so little about yourself there's no place you can begin. You don't know what you feel.

I can't even imagine how sad your life really is. I laugh at the mindless dribble you call conversation.

You do not know... the question, however, is do you know you do not know?

He who knows, and knows he knows,
He is wise - follow him.
He who knows, and knows not he knows,
He is asleep - wake him.
He who knows not, and knows not he knows not,
He is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not, and knows he knows not,
He is a child - teach him.

I vote to close this thread, empty a clip into burn it and put it out with urine then dig a hole dump it in cover it with dirt and build a house on top of it.

Yes just so do you do to your self. It's why you feel that way. Think about it. It's as plain as day. Never mind the house. Plant a rose.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Sternfan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Sternfan
"Moonie, most Americans unlike you do not have deep neuroses consisting of constant fear and self-hate. We can take pride in the fact that our country is recovering from a despicable act of terrorism and is moving forward"

My God at least somebody said it, etech you are right on keep fighting dude.

Ah me, you know so little about yourself there's no place you can begin. You don't know what you feel.

I can't even imagine how sad your life really is. I laugh at the mindless dribble you call conversation.

I know, you need to to protect yourself from seeing. The more you contemplate me the sicker you will become and the more desparate your need will be to hurt. It's how we are when we are unconscious of what we feel. I've seen it all a million times before. It's called projection. The mirror is the ugliest of things. In me you see the self you cannot see.

Sternfan,
moonie copes by thinking that he is "enlightened" . Only he can "see" the world as it really is. It would be funny if he wasn't such a sad case. He refuses to get any help so there isn't much anyone can do for him.
Don't rile him up too much or he will start making up his lies about you also.

 

[Brie]

Originally posted by: etech

moonie copes by thinking that he is "enlightened" . Only he can "see" the world as it really is. It would be funny if he wasn't such a sad case. He refuses to get any help so there isn't much anyone can do for him.
Don't rile him up too much or he will start making up his lies about you also.

...

I've said it before, I see the greatest danger from the cynical that have no belief in the overall viability of our system of government and can only see the mistakes without also seeing the inherent strength that lies in it.

So Moonbeam is the only one who can see the mistakes in our system? sounds pretty openminded to me

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Brie

Originally posted by: etech

moonie copes by thinking that he is "enlightened" . Only he can "see" the world as it really is. It would be funny if he wasn't such a sad case. He refuses to get any help so there isn't much anyone can do for him.
Don't rile him up too much or he will start making up his lies about you also.

...

I've said it before, I see the greatest danger from the cynical that have no belief in the overall viability of our system of government and can only see the mistakes without also seeing the inherent strength that lies in it.

So Moonbeam is the only one who can see the mistakes in our system? sounds pretty openminded to me

There is a difference between "seeing mistakes" vs "only seeing mistakes" and dwelling on them.

CkG

 

[Brie]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Brie

Originally posted by: etech

moonie copes by thinking that he is "enlightened" . Only he can "see" the world as it really is. It would be funny if he wasn't such a sad case. He refuses to get any help so there isn't much anyone can do for him.
Don't rile him up too much or he will start making up his lies about you also.

...

I've said it before, I see the greatest danger from the cynical that have no belief in the overall viability of our system of government and can only see the mistakes without also seeing the inherent strength that lies in it.

So Moonbeam is the only one who can see the mistakes in our system? sounds pretty openminded to me

There is a difference between "seeing mistakes" vs "only seeing mistakes" and dwelling on them.

CkG

Yes the same difference between "defending mistakes" vs "only defending mistakes" and dwelling on them.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Brie

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Brie

Originally posted by: etech

moonie copes by thinking that he is "enlightened" . Only he can "see" the world as it really is. It would be funny if he wasn't such a sad case. He refuses to get any help so there isn't much anyone can do for him.
Don't rile him up too much or he will start making up his lies about you also.

...

I've said it before, I see the greatest danger from the cynical that have no belief in the overall viability of our system of government and can only see the mistakes without also seeing the inherent strength that lies in it.

So Moonbeam is the only one who can see the mistakes in our system? sounds pretty openminded to me

There is a difference between "seeing mistakes" vs "only seeing mistakes" and dwelling on them.

CkG

Yes the same difference between "defending mistakes" vs "only defending mistakes" and dwelling on them.

Doesn't quite work but "that's OK"
As Moonbeam always says: Look in the mirror and say "...because I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and, doggone it, people like me."

CkG

EDIT - that is Moonbeam that says that right?