Proof-of-Citizenship Ruling Victory for Honest Vote

[thraashman]

I'm an employer, and I can't hire someone without a valid id.

Yet the list of IDs allowed for an employer to accept is much longer than what is allowed under all of the voter disenfranchisement laws that Republicans are pushing.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Nor could I was I was an employer.

Really? You had to obtain a government issued photo ID to hire someone?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Yet the list of IDs allowed for an employer to accept is much longer than what is allowed under all of the voter disenfranchisement laws that Republicans are pushing.

And there are combinations that are valid for an I-9 that don't require photo ID.

 

[BUnit1701]

Yet B is absolutely true. Data show there are millions of perfectly eligible American voters who do not have the current, state-issued, photo IDs required by these voter suppression laws. That is a simple fact, no matter how unintuitive it may seem.

Please, explain why they cannot go get a FREE one like every one of these laws proscribe the state government to issue?

 

[MixMasterTang]

Please, explain why they cannot go get a FREE one like every one of these laws proscribe the state government to issue?

Some older people (and younger people) do not have a car and do not live within walking distance or public transportation to the drivers license bureau. Now you're probably going to say if they can't make it there then how can they make it to the voting booth? There are many many more voting places spread out than there are places to go get your drivers license.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Please, explain why they cannot go get a FREE one like every one of these laws proscribe the state government to issue?

You have any idea how many issuing offices they closed at the same time making it very hard for people to actually get an application processed? Looking at Pennsylvania alone.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/177976/pennsylvania-ruling-shows-problem-voter-id-laws

Noted McGinley: “In contrast to the hundreds of thousands who lack compliant photo ID, only 17,000 photo IDs for voting purposes have been issued.” Since the 2012 election, fewer than 150 new voting IDs had been issued by the state per month.

That’s because getting a voter ID in Pennsylvania was a bureaucratic nightmare. There are 9,300 polling places in the state, but only seventy-one DMV offices. There are only five DMV offices for the entire city of Philadelphia, none in nine counties and the in sixteen counties offices are only open one or two days a week . “

Then there's the issue with the underlying documentation needed to get a photo ID.

in Pennsylvania—12.8 percent of the electorate—don’t have sufficient voter ID. Moreover,379,000 registered voters don’t have the underlying documents, such as a birth certificate, needed to obtain the right ID; 174,000 of them voted in 2008.

 

[MixMasterTang]

Produce said data please.

http://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/d/download_file_39242.pdf

That was the first link on google for searching "how many americans do not have state issued ID". In case you don't want to open the PDF it says they estimate 13 million american citizens .

 

[thraashman]

You have any idea how many issuing offices they closed at the same time making it very hard for people to actually get an application processed? Looking at Pennsylvania alone.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/177976/pennsylvania-ruling-shows-problem-voter-id-laws



Then there's the issue with the underlying documentation needed to get a photo ID.

And then you have places like my state where since they already had a photo id law when other states started deciding to get in on the voter suppression, so they made the requirements to get or renew a photo id much more stringent.

 

[shira]

I'm an employer, and I can't hire someone without a valid id.

Nor could I was I was an employer.

And I wouldn't hire someone without first making sure they passed a background check. By your reasoning, that means we should also require people to pass background checks before we allow them to vote.

 

[boomerang]

And I wouldn't hire someone without first making sure they passed a background check. By your reasoning, that means we should also require people to pass background checks before we allow them to vote.

What exactly, is wrong with you?

 

[Vic]

I'm an employer, and I can't hire someone without a valid id.

And I think that's authoritarian, restricting voluntary association and right to work.

 

[boomerang]

There are 251 working days in 2014. 251 opportunities to get an ID.

 

[Zaap]

And I think that's authoritarian, restricting voluntary association and right to work.

There you go again, vomiting terms you have no idea what they actually mean, trying to appear to have an argument.

You have no right to 'voluntarily associate' in someone else's home or business. Your 'right to work' ends at my right to not hire a stupid slacker who won't do the job, or someone who's not a legal citizen who'll get me in a shitload of trouble for hiring them because it's illegal and some people still believe in laws.

 

[Zaap]

There are 251 working days in 2014. 251 opportunities to get an ID.

That's 251 days of TERRIBAD FIRST WORLD HARDSHIP!!!!!

 

[fskimospy]

There you go again, vomiting terms you have no idea what they actually mean, trying to appear to have an argument.

You have no right to 'voluntarily associate' in someone else's home or business. Your 'right to work' ends at my right to not hire a stupid slacker who won't do the job, or someone who's not a legal citizen who'll get me in a shitload of trouble for hiring them because it's illegal and some people still believe in laws.

You're an idiot. He was saying that the government, by presenting an ID/verification requirement for employers, was inhibiting the right of employers and employees to voluntarily associate with one another.

There you go again, vomiting terms you have no idea what they actually mean, trying to appear to have an argument.

lol.

 

[Vic]

There you go again, vomiting terms you have no idea what they actually mean, trying to appear to have an argument.

You have no right to 'voluntarily associate' in someone else's home or business. Your 'right to work' ends at my right to not hire a stupid slacker who won't do the job, or someone who's not a legal citizen who'll get me in a shitload of trouble for hiring them because it's illegal and some people still believe in laws.

I was speaking from the viewpoint that an employer should be able to hire anyone he wants, but do rant on..

 

[MixMasterTang]

That's 251 days of TERRIBAD FIRST WORLD HARDSHIP!!!!!

As stated above some Drivers License Bureaus are only opened 1-2 days a week and some people live nowhere near one of them. But fuck them because they don't live like you do, right?

 

[Zaap]

I was speaking from the viewpoint that an employer should be able to hire anyone he wants, but do rant on..

HAHA, well usually you do mount arguments that dumb. I did misread you.

Okay fine.

But you're still wrong. Because we have laws in this country, there's nothing wrong with an employer needing to verify a person's eligibility for employment.

Otherwise, you get a system where employers exploit everyone by taking advantage of people here illegally and willing to undermine the wage system. Legal citizens shouldn't have to compete with a slave trade of exploited illegal labor.

 

[Zaap]

As stated above some Drivers License Bureaus are only opened 1-2 days a week and some people live nowhere near one of them. But fuck them because they don't live like you do, right?

Awww *sniffle*.

I guess they can't get out to vote either.

"Drivers License Bureaus" aren't the only place to get a valid ID. You people are pathetic trying to manufacture "the great ID crisis".

 

[MixMasterTang]

Awww *sniffle*.

I guess they can't get out to vote either.

"Drivers License Bureaus" aren't the only place to get a valid ID. You people are pathetic trying to manufacture "the great ID crisis".

No, I am saying that everyone lives in a box and some people understand that not everyone in the US can just stroll on down to a place and get a government issued ID with no problem. How would you suggest an older retired person in the middle of Alaska or Montana who doesn't have a government issued ID get one that no longer knows where their birth certificate is?

 

[boomerang]

As stated above some Drivers License Bureaus are only opened 1-2 days a week and some people live nowhere near one of them. But fuck them because they don't live like you do, right?

Hey, you got it. It sucks that they were born at home, never went to school, never flew on an airplane, never had to go to the Doctor, never opened a bank account or cashed a check, applied for food stamps, never bought a bottle of booze or had a job. Never applied for welfare, drove a car, or even applied for Obamacare.

Now I'm starting to wonder how in the hell I ever got ID myself. However it was, I'm sure it was burdensome. I may even be due some reimbursement for all my trouble. But I might need ID to get that check. Damn.

 

[MixMasterTang]

Hey, you got it. It sucks that they were born at home, never went to school, never flew on an airplane, never had to go to the Doctor, never opened a bank account or cashed a check, applied for food stamps, never bought a bottle of booze or had a job. Never applied for welfare, drove a car, or even applied for Obamacare.

Now I'm starting to wonder how in the hell I ever got ID myself. However it was, I'm sure it was burdensome. I may even be due some reimbursement for all my trouble. But I might need ID to get that check. Damn.

So ID's last forever now and never expire?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

So ID's last forever now and never expire?

Well that and what you need to do now to open a bank account, fly on a plane and that clearly has to apply to people who did those things decades ago.

 

[Zaap]

B-but what about people that don't have shoes and have to walk barefoot and backward in snowstorms, uphill both ways???!

(Just keeping the sob-hypothetical train rolling).

 

[Bowfinger]

You have any idea how many issuing offices they closed at the same time making it very hard for people to actually get an application processed? Looking at Pennsylvania alone.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/177976/pennsylvania-ruling-shows-problem-voter-id-laws



Then there's the issue with the underlying documentation needed to get a photo ID.

Exactly. Plus there are two other factors that come into play. First, it's relatively easy to get a ride to the polls on election day. Not only are many neighbors also headed to the nearby polls, but in most (all?) areas, the two parties actively offer to provide transportation to people who need it. Finding a ride to a distant DMV, on the other hand, can be much more challenging.

Second, even in those states that will provide a "free" ID, they mostly will not provide the necessary documentation for free. It is still the responsibility of each voter to obtain, pay for, and show that documentation (certified copy of the birth certificate, for example). I would support a photo ID law that guaranteed truly free IDs by coming to voters' homes and obtaining required documents at no charge ... except it's a waste of taxpayer money for a problem that is virtually non-existent.