Proof Bush tortured in ONE paragraph.

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: blackangst1
With all this irrefutable evidence, why is no one moving to prosecute? Because giving a pass = condoning the behavior, or even approving of it.

Then again it may just be that proving it beyond a reasonable doubt just isn't possible.

You dont need beyond a reasonable doubt to get it into a grand jury. But if you ask Harvey, he has evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

As you well know it's not up to me or Harvey.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: blackangst1

With all this irrefutable evidence, why is no one moving to prosecute? Because giving a pass = condoning the behavior, or even approving of it.

Guess you haven't been paying attention. Attorney General Holder has not announced whether he will pursue charges against senior Bushwhackos, and there are continuing calls from Congress for it to happen.

He also hasnt announced that we wont be taking over Norway. So that means there is a chance!

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: OCguy

He also hasnt announced that we wont be taking over Norway. So that means there is a chance!

Same question for you -- Why do you love murderers, traitors, torturers and war criminals and hate the Unitied States of America and our Constitution and laws?

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: OCguy

He also hasnt announced that we wont be taking over Norway. So that means there is a chance!

Same question for you -- Why do you love murderers, traitors, torturers and war criminals and hate the Unitied States of America and our Constitution and laws?

I'll take loaded questions for 300, Alex!

You are above using logical fallacies in order to make your point arent you?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: OCguy

I'll take loaded questions for 300, Alex!

You are above using logical fallacies in order to make your point arent you?

Of course, except that the fact is, your thankfully ex-Traitor In Chief and his criminal gang really did commit murder, treason, war crimes, crimes against humanity and more. Do I really have to repost the whole macro yet again to make the point.

The real fallicy is the presumption that, because they haven't YET been prosecuted, they aren't guilty of the crimes and that they won't be prosecuted for them.

Obviously, I strongly favor their prosecution, but I'm fully aware that there are political considerations affecting whether and when that will happen. Meanwhile, don't expect me to stop advocating that it should.

The more linear statement of the question is, if they are guilty, why would you or any "conservative" who stands for supporting the Constitution and our system of laws NOT want to see them prosecuted for their crimes?

 

[shira]

I keep reading the thread title and thinking, "ALL of Bush's paragraphs were torture."

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Of course, except that the fact is, your thankfully ex-Traitor In Chief and his criminal gang really did commit murder, treason, war crimes, crimes against humanity and more. Do I really have to repost the whole macro yet again to make the point.

The real fallicy is the presumption that, because they haven't YET been prosecuted, they aren't guilty of the crimes and that they won't be prosecuted for them.

Obviously, I strongly favor their prosecution, but I'm fully aware that there are political considerations affecting whether and when that will happen. Meanwhile, don't expect me to stop advocating that it should.

The more linear statement of the question is, if they are guilty, why would you or any "conservative" who stands for supporting the Constitution and our system of laws NOT want to see them prosecuted for their crimes?

Too much at stake for the office of the US President. Once you open up that door, you open the door for the next president to prosecute Obama for attacking Pakistan (against international law), continuing renditions, not closing GITMO fast enough, etc.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Harvey

The more linear statement of the question is, if they are guilty, why would you or any "conservative" who stands for supporting the Constitution and our system of laws NOT want to see them prosecuted for their crimes?

Too much at stake for the office of the US President. Once you open up that door, you open the door for the next president to prosecute Obama for attacking Pakistan (against international law), continuing renditions, not closing GITMO fast enough, etc.

That's consumate BULLSHIT!!! There's far more at stake if we don't respect the basic premise of our system of laws, inscribed in bold capital letters above the West Portico of the Supreme Court

EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER LAW

It brings us back to the same question:

If they are guilty, why would you or any "conservative" who ALLEGEDLY stands for supporting the Constitution and our system of laws NOT want to see them prosecuted for their crimes?

There is NO excuse for it. Our Constitution and our entire system of justice is based on the absolute imperative that NO man is above the law. If we cave on that, we may as well trash the Constitution and the entire legal code because they're just so much toilet paper when they become inconvenient to those with power.

Is this, or is this NOT the United States of America?

If you answer, "yes," what is your sorry ass excuse for ignoring and discarding the laws, the rights, the duties and the system of justice the American people have fought and died to preserve and defend for over 200 years?

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Harvey
*snip*

You are assuming that I am for/against something, when all I am doing is stating how it is. I am not advocating anything. There are political reasons, just like you said, as to why it is not happening/will not happen. Hell, Obama has tried to cover up some of it for Bush.

I think GWB is out of the minds of most Americans, be it conservative or otherwise. There is a vocal minority, like yourself, who do still pursue some sort of prosecution, be it at home or in international court.

In another generation, whatever Bush did or did not do (I think you are referring to torture here) will be as far-off in the mind of the US and the rest of the world as the trail of tears, Tuskegee, Japanese internment, etc.

This is not justifying any of those things, this is just taking a look at history and attempting to predict how 2000-2008 will be percieved. GWB will just be another face on the "Presidents of the US" poster on the wall in my grandkid's US History class.

And I know you are smart enough to know that "equal justice" is complete bullshit.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: jonks
Yes, let's marginalize the widespread institutional approval by the Bush admin of torture by US forces which resulted in dozens of deaths of detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan, some of whom were completely innocent bystanders swept up by US forces. Man, that's hysterical stuff.

You chest-pounding patriotic pro-torture righties are so gosh darn american.

Take deep breaths

um...unlike the example above by xjohnx we are actually killing people. Some humans on the planet would consider killing other people a serious subject. The Dark knight was a good movie but that is all it was- a movie.

I just want to make sure so ... you're talking about unborn babies - right?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Harvey
*snip*

I think GWB is out of the minds of most Americans, be it conservative or otherwise. There is a vocal minority, like yourself, who do still pursue some sort of prosecution, be it at home or in international court.

I KNOW the Bushwhackos were and remain out of their minds. I think you underestimate the number of people who want to see the truth presented and the guilty convicted in open court.

In another generation, whatever Bush did or did not do (I think you are referring to torture here) will be as far-off in the mind of the US and the rest of the world as the trail of tears, Tuskegee, Japanese internment, etc.

Those tragic pieces of history are NOT forgotten, as much as the tyrants and wannabe tyrants of the world and the small minded jackasses who would follow them would with it were so.

This is not justifying any of those things, this is just taking a look at history and attempting to predict how 2000-2008 will be percieved. GWB will just be another face on the "Presidents of the US" poster on the wall in my grandkid's US History class.

I know I'm 68 years old, I'M from a Hungarian and Lithuanian Jewish family background, and I can only hope that human outrages of history like the Holocaust, Pol Pat, and our own dishonorable failings, including the Trail of Tears, KKK lynchings, the Tuskegee Airmen, the Japanese internment will never be forgotten.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
~ George Santyana

And I know you are smart enough to know that "equal justice" is complete bullshit.

Short sighted ethical dwarves like you are give me reason fear you may be right. You should be ashamed of yourself. If those of your view prevail, I will be ashamed of this once great nation.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: xj0hnx

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: xj0hnx

Originally posted by: Pulsar
Standing by and letting others do the dirty work is implicit approval of their means. Suggesting that just because they did the actual harm and you weren't in the room means absolutely nothing.

You propose beating them by sinking to their level. I refuse to do that. I wish my government chose to do the same.

You've never been in any situtation ever remotely close to that, your opinion about it, while your right, means nothing.

Ive never been remotely close to underage prostitution and trafficing, yet I have an opinion about it. Does it not count then?

No, not really. Where would you imagine an opinion counts for anything outside of the mind of the person who has it?

If you believe this, why do you post on ATPN?

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: jonks
Yes, let's marginalize the widespread institutional approval by the Bush admin of torture by US forces which resulted in dozens of deaths of detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan, some of whom were completely innocent bystanders swept up by US forces. Man, that's hysterical stuff.

You chest-pounding patriotic pro-torture righties are so gosh darn american.

Take deep breaths

um...unlike the example above by xjohnx we are actually killing people. Some humans on the planet would consider killing other people a serious subject. The Dark knight was a good movie but that is all it was- a movie.

I just want to make sure so ... you're talking about unborn babies - right?

If fetuses were people, your question might make sense.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: xj0hnx
Some people would consider stopping people from killing others a serious subject.

Can you prove that torture has stopped people from committing terror acts? No you can't. Have we had a terrorist act in the last 8 years? No. Don't be a little bitch, our freedoms and the freedoms we extend to others have been fought and died for for over 200 years. Hell I live in LA I guarantee if somebody is getting attacked its LA or NYC. Where do you live?

Originally posted by: blackangst1
With all this irrefutable evidence, why is no one moving to prosecute? Because giving a pass = condoning the behavior, or even approving of it.

These kinds of things take time. They need to investigate look at the facts and then prosecute those who broke the law. They will have their day in court, shame those they tortured never had that same right.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: boomerang
I just want to make sure so ... you're talking about unborn babies - right?

No we kill ones that were born.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGx_A_YikSk

nsfw

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: jonks
Yes, let's marginalize the widespread institutional approval by the Bush admin of torture by US forces which resulted in dozens of deaths of detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan, some of whom were completely innocent bystanders swept up by US forces. Man, that's hysterical stuff.

You chest-pounding patriotic pro-torture righties are so gosh darn american.

Take deep breaths

um...unlike the example above by xjohnx we are actually killing people. Some humans on the planet would consider killing other people a serious subject. The Dark knight was a good movie but that is all it was- a movie.

I just want to make sure so ... you're talking about unborn babies - right?

If fetuses were people, your question might make sense.

I knew someone would take the bait! Here's your sign!

 

[Carmen813]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: CitizenKain
Ahh, it didn't take long for a chickenshit coward like yourself to step up to defend torture.

Torture: Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion.
(thank you dictionary)

Can someone show me PROOF that BOOOSH authorized the "torture" of anyone?

Funny, my dictionary defined torture as letting conservatives run the country for eight years. As in, conservatives tortured the country for eight years.
We must be using different editions.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: boomerang
I just want to make sure so ... you're talking about unborn babies - right?

No we kill ones that were born.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGx_A_YikSk

nsfw

nobody? right ok then.

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Huffington Post

The use of jarring music during the interrogation of suspected terrorists has been reported in many works documenting the authorization of torture during the Bush administration. At least 20 declassified documents currently exist that reference the use of "loud" music to "create futility" in uncooperative detainees. Among the artists whose music is believed to have been used include Metallica, Britney Spears, the Drowning Pool, Eminem, Bruce Springsteen and the Bee Gees.

I hate to Admit it but Harvey was right. Britney? Eminem? Bruce? The Bee Gees? Bush is clearly one sick bastard for making these poor terrorists listen to that garbage. I suspect they were begging to be waterboarded after listening to that crap. I wouldn't wish this music on ANY of you.. Its a sad day for our country.

That's nice. And Obama doesn't do a thing about it.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: jonks
Yes, let's marginalize the widespread institutional approval by the Bush admin of torture by US forces which resulted in dozens of deaths of detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan, some of whom were completely innocent bystanders swept up by US forces. Man, that's hysterical stuff.

You chest-pounding patriotic pro-torture righties are so gosh darn american.

Ah, didnt take long for someone to imply its ok to strap a bomb to yourself and blow up dozens of innocents, but by God dont try to torture prisoners jailed as suspected terrorists for the purpose of stopping terroristic acts.

Have you built any bombs today?

Talk about severely limited reading comprehension skills.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: blackangst1

With all this irrefutable evidence, why is no one moving to prosecute? Because giving a pass = condoning the behavior, or even approving of it.

Guess you haven't been paying attention. Attorney General Holder has not announced whether he will pursue charges against senior Bushwhackos, and there are continuing calls from Congress for it to happen.

Why do you love murderers, traitors, torturers and war criminals and hate the Unitied States of America and our Constitution and laws?

I dont. If the evidence presents itself, let it be. But, surrounding the "torture" allegations, given the few we subjected and who they were, I dont have a problem with it. What I *do* have a problem with is the Patriot Act. THAT I would like to see a prosecution for. And Obama while we're at it since he's strenthening it. Mother fucker.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: blackangst1

With all this irrefutable evidence, why is no one moving to prosecute? Because giving a pass = condoning the behavior, or even approving of it.

Guess you haven't been paying attention. Attorney General Holder has not announced whether he will pursue charges against senior Bushwhackos, and there are continuing calls from Congress for it to happen.

Why do you love murderers, traitors, torturers and war criminals and hate the Unitied States of America and our Constitution and laws?

And by the way since we're asking persoinal questions...have you stopped raping little boys?

 

[boomerang]

I'm Ivan Pavlov and I approve of this thread. Put the words Bush and torture in a forum title and the reactions are predictable.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: xj0hnx
Some people would consider stopping people from killing others a serious subject.

Can you prove that torture has stopped people from committing terror acts? No you can't. Have we had a terrorist act in the last 8 years? No. Don't be a little bitch, our freedoms and the freedoms we extend to others have been fought and died for for over 200 years. Hell I live in LA I guarantee if somebody is getting attacked its LA or NYC. Where do you live?

Incarcerating murders hasn't stopped people from murdering either, let's just let all the murders and rapist out of jail, they probably aren't too comfortable in there. Brilliant "logic".

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: blackangst1

With all this irrefutable evidence, why is no one moving to prosecute? Because giving a pass = condoning the behavior, or even approving of it.

Guess you haven't been paying attention. Attorney General Holder has not announced whether he will pursue charges against senior Bushwhackos, and there are continuing calls from Congress for it to happen.

Why do you love murderers, traitors, torturers and war criminals and hate the Unitied States of America and our Constitution and laws?

And by the way since we're asking persoinal questions...have you stopped raping little boys?

I'll answer your question after you answer mine, and only if you can post any evidence that I've committed such a crime. I expect links proving the acts of which you accuse me and statutory citations and qualified legal opinions to support your accusation.

Tell us why you defend the crimes committed by your mercifully EX-Traitor In Chief and his criminal cabal of traitors, murderers, torturers and war criminals.

You know I can document their crimes qualified to the same standard as I'm demanding of you to prove the crime you allege I committed. I'll be glad to repost my proof if you really insist. Go ahead. Show us you're more than a lying scumbag Bushwhacko sycophant (it means ass licker). We'll be waiting.
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Originally posted by: xj0hnx

Incarcerating murders hasn't stopped people from murdering either, let's just let all the murders and rapist out of jail, they probably aren't too comfortable in there. Brilliant "logic".

But it sure tells us a lot about you when you're willing to sink to becoming the evil you claim you want to defeat. :thumbsdown: :|