Pro-Choice or Pro-Life (to kill or not to kill?, should that be the question, is that the question?

[FettsBabe]

There's plenty of rapists and murderers that would qualify for your calculation, which would allow the innocent to live.

Seriously, I don't believe in the death penalty either. I'm probably as pro-life as it gets.

 

[FettsBabe]

I never said there wasn't a problem with how people think. There's also a problem with people devaluing human life with abortion...and people wonder why there are so many killings, rapes, and robberies.

If you don't respect life before birth then how can you respect it afterwards?

 

[SirFshAlot]

Abortion will never be made illegal.
because if it would be prohibited, it would continue anyway


Mating should be regulated


why does this remind me of that Sesame Street song: "One of these things is not like the other"?


how the hell would you propose that mating be regulated?

 

[DannyLove]

well, so...........the conclusion to my topic would be? hehe, jk.

I personally think most of you have exerted brilliant opinions on this matter. However, we as humans will never conclude on this matter. Legislation might use their laws and amendments to either be against this or not, but either way, us citizens have the right to express our opinions on certain things, and it seems as though many will claim that "its my body, my decision" type attitude. Whether it is murder or not is another issue that comes to play. Who decides what is murder? the governemnt? (i hope not), God (if any)? Who considers a certain "matter of cells" living? If all cells that are moving around and doing what they have to do life, then whats inside a whomb should be considered living? correct? then an abortion would be considered murder, if it is something inside thats "living" thats being sucked out.? right?

Well, i'm glad you guys all took part on this topic, even though it will probably never end, at least James Madison would be pleased that we're expressing our opinions as humans (read Federalist No. 10)

To be continued........(for many many generations)

 

[Thorn]

<< Seriously, I don't believe in the death penalty either. I'm probably as pro-life as it gets. >>


There's quite a difference between abortion and capital punishment. The baby in a mother's womb didn't hack up a bunch of people with a meat cleaver or murder their wife (and then hide her body parts in their deep freeze) just to collect some insurance money. Both of these things happened in the state of TN last year, both of these killers are going to be executed.


<< If you don't respect life before birth then how can you respect it afterwards? >>


I respect life by wanting to protect it from the sickos running around murdering for their own personal gain.

 

[loosbrew]

<< Why aren't fathers allowed to take those babies and raise them. Who are you to tell a father that he can't raise HIS child??? >>




who are you to tell someone what to do? who are you to decide these peoples lives? who the hell are you to have the audacity to even think that your opinion means anything to anyone who doesnt have anything to do with you?



<< Mating should not be regulated. China is an excellent example of why it shouldn't be. The Chinese Gov. has no respect for life. >>



China is an excellent example of why mating SHOULD be regulated. way over populated.



<< BTW, if a mother doesn't want the baby, and the father says he will raise it then why can't the father make the mother carry the child? Don't tell me the &quot;its her body excuse&quot; because I think your point was...why doesn't someone else take it? Some fathers would but the mothers are to stupid and self centered to let them!!!!!!! >>


ok, im sorry but did that man have to go through all of the harmonal changes that pregnancy does to a woman? did he have to have all that extra weight resting on his pelvis. or how about all of his internal organs being moved around in order to accomadate this parasite? have you ever been pregnant? have you ever studied what it does to a woman? or would you rather live your life in a fantasy thinking that yuour way should be the only way and that everyone else is &quot;stupid and self centered&quot; ?
im sorry but your insults and lack of and thought behind your answers dont really hold up very well on your side.



<< it's not religious, it's about civil rights of the baby >>



the baby doesnt have rights until it has a birth certificate and a file with the state.

to try and play a God card in these arguments only lessens your argument. if anyone wants to debate this realistically, then you must put aside all of the things that one cant prove. i think i have done this by stating either facts or opinions which hold merrit. when someone says something like, &quot;they'll have to answer to God then...&quot; i just cant take that seriously. no one has ever proved to me what/who God is.
either we grow up and learn what needs to be done in this world, or we continue to worry about imaginary &quot;bosses&quot; that tend to puppet your lives.

loosbrew

 

[Elledan]

<<why does this remind me of that Sesame Street song: &quot;One of these things is not like the other&quot;?


how the hell would you propose that mating be regulated? >>

In order to decrease the number of abortions, you'll have to decrease the number of unwanted pregnancies. Since many Humans lack self-control, it'll have to be done by others.

There are a few ways to regulate mating:
> prohibit having more than 3 children
> instruct children at school that having sex is only meant for reproduction and not for 'fun'. Make them aware of how useless sex actually is and how far from anything which can be called 'intelligent'.
> block the development of the reproduction organs of embryos. In special centra, the healthiest Humans will be selected, their reproduction organs will be developed under the influence of hormones. They will be kept in those centra till they're too old to mate/get children. Then they'll be made infertile again and allowed to leave the centra.

 

[Thorn]

<< In order to decrease the number of abortions, you'll have to decrease the number of unwanted pregnancies. Since many Humans lack self-control, it'll have to be done by others.

There are a few ways to regulate mating:
> prohibit having more than 3 children
> instruct children at school that having sex is only meant for reproduction and not for 'fun'. Make them aware of how useless sex actually is and how far from anything which can be called 'intelligent'.
> block the development of the reproduction organs of embryos. In special centra, the healthiest Humans will be selected, their reproduction organs will be developed under the influence of hormones. They will be kept in those centra till they're too old to mate/get children. Then they'll be made infertile again and allowed to leave the centra. >>


Welcome to Gattaca! I hope you're just kidding with all that garbage. If not, you're really one sick puppy.

 

[TAsunder]

Another option for some is D- Real Pro Life, like Jainism or something. You need to start carrying a brush around to sweep insects out of the way of where you are walking so that you don't accidentally kill one by stepping on it.

To be honest, Pro Life is pretty misleading, it's really just &quot;Pro Fetus Life&quot; I had a working theory in college that anyone who was adamantly pro-fetus-life should be morally obligated to adopt their children, but somewhere along the line someone disproved that theory. Not really sure how, I suspect it involved a lot of hand motions and optical illusions.

Whoever just went on a tirade in response to the guy who said he was anti-death penalty missed the point I think. I think (not sure) that he was saying that a serial killer pedophile nun molester has less value in this world than an unborn baby fetus to him, and thus if he can't even bring himself to abort the former, how could he bring himself to abort the latter, who has not yet lived up to his/her potential to be an idiotic human being (waste of space)? Of course I personally think that a serial killer has more value, because he has helped restore the world to its natural balance, and also because a known enemy is better than an unknown one.

 

[Thorn]

<< the baby doesnt have rights until it has a birth certificate and a file with the state. >>


Actually, that's not correct. You can go to prison for killing an unborn child if it's against the mother's will. Regardless of whether you harm the mother or not. Does that make sense to you in light of your previous statement? After all, it doesn't have any rights... it's just a lump of cells. Really, what does it matter?

 

[bluemax]

I'm aghast.... Most pro-choice people are thinking entirely of themselves. They don't want to use protection because it doesn't feel as nice, and they don't want the responsibility of getting pregnant because of it.

What? Pregnant? Noone will want to go out with me and I'll miss all the best parties!&quot;

Yeesh. Get an IUD if you must.


Then there's the complete idiots who actually think that that beachball in a woman's belly is just a glob of cellular play-doh. Even junior schoolbooks show the process of how a baby grows in the womb, and it looks rather like a baby even at a month or so (by the time some people realize they're pregnant!) You think it's an inhuman blob? Go visit a school library for the kids' book &quot;Where Did I Come From&quot;. It's even got cartoon nudity. You'll be so happy.

Anyone have a link to the award-winning picture of a doctor operating on a baby while it was still in the womb? (Age 5-6 mos.) The baby's hand grasped the doctor's finger and held on.
Tell me that baby is just a glob and can be slashed if the mother decides going to parties is a lot better than carrying that baby to term and giving it up to adoption for the HOW many tens of thousands of infertile couples?

How do you feel about those girls who give birth in the school washroom and dump the baby into the dumpster behind the school?

Our society has further degradation to go too.

 

[Thorn]

<< Whoever just went on a tirade in response to the guy who said he was anti-death penalty missed the point I think. I think (not sure) that he was saying that a serial killer pedophile nun molester has less value in this world than an unborn baby fetus to him, and thus if he can't even bring himself to abort the former, how could he bring himself to abort the latter, who has not yet lived up to his/her potential to be an idiotic human being (waste of space)? Of course I personally think that a serial killer has more value, because he has helped restore the world to its natural balance, and also because a known enemy is better than an unknown one. >>


???

You've got to be kidding? Are just a natural idiot or do you work at it?

Bah, why am I wasting my time talking to you? It's impossible to have a battle of whits with an unarmed opponent.

 

[Ornery]

&quot;...try and play a God card in these arguments only lessens your argument.&quot;

Man you are one thick SOB. I said it ain't religious. The truth that it has inalienable rights is self evident. Just as evident as the fact that all men have inalienable rights. Here's a clue, that's NOT from the Bible!

 

[FettsBabe]

I believe in life, and it doesn't matter if its a killer or not. There are to many people who have been wrongfully executed. The numbers are staggering. I was trying to explain that I believe in all types of life and that I'm not just against abortion. I'm against all things that kill a human life.



<< who are you to tell someone what to do? who are you to decide these peoples lives? who the hell are you to have the audacity to even think that your opinion means anything to anyone who doesnt have anything to do with you? >>



We told people that slavery will no longer be allowed. We told men that they can no longer beat their wives (legally). We told women that they are equal and have the right to vote. We told blacks and other minorities that they have rights too. Who am I to say this? I wonder what you would have said back then? Probably the BS you said now.

China - is a good example because they kill the second born. They did it a few months ago. A woman had twins, and the doctor delivered both. He hid the second baby and gave it to the mother later so the gov. wouldn't find out. The gov. did find out and they went to her home, and killed the baby in a mud puddle. Don't tell me they are an excellent reason why. I don't care how many people live in our country (or theirs) their lack of respect for life is insulting. If you want population control why don't you take your life instead of a babies?

A father does have a right to the baby. No his body doesn't move around and shift, but then she knew what could happen whe she CHOSE to lay down. Besides her sacrifices are nothing compared to what sacrifices he would make while raising the child. Also, its not the man's fault that he's not the one that gets pregnant. I'm sorry, but a few bowel kicks and stretch marks is better than killing a baby especially when the mother uses the excuse...I can't take care of it. Then give it to someone who can. He goes through emotional turmoil just like the mother, and most fathers feel as if they are going through the pregnancy with them. Apparently you are not a father or you don't have a lot of emotions or feelings. Listen to the song &quot;with arms wide open.&quot; A fathers view of pregnancy written when he found out his wife was pregnant.



<< the baby doesnt have rights until it has a birth certificate and a file with the state. >>



And to think that some people still don't have a birth certificate. Wonder what the courts would do to you if you killed someone without a birth certificate? The same thing as if you killed someone who did. Read the law before you discuss it.

 

[loosbrew]

i never said i didnt use birth control. i use the best birth control. i dont have sex. im waiting unitil i get my vasectomy. not to say i never had sex, yes i have, and used condoms. im not stupid.



<< How do you feel about those girls who give birth in the school washroom and dump the baby into the dumpster behind the school? >>



i think they shouldve had an abortion.



<< You've got to be kidding? Are just a natural idiot or do you work at it? >>




<< Bah, why am I wasting my time talking to you? It's impossible to have a battle of whits with an unarmed opponent. >>




i kind of thought that what TAsunder said was a lot wittier than anything you ever said he/she makes good points and speaks intelligently without directly insulting anyone, unlike you.

loosbrew

 

[loosbrew]

<< Man you are one thick SOB. I said it ain't religious. The truth that it has inalienable rights is self evident. Just as evident as the fact that all men have inalienable rights. Here's a clue, that's NOT from the Bible! >>


that wasnt directed towards you, rather to everyone who does try and pull a god card. my apologies if you misunderstood or i miscommunicated

loosbrew

 

[Thorn]

<< . I don't care how many people live in our country (or theirs) their lack of respect for life is insulting. If you want population control why don't you take your life instead of a babies? >>


Good comeback! Very well put.

 

[Thorn]

<< i kind of thought that what TAsunder said was a lot wittier than anything you ever said he/she makes good points and speaks intelligently without directly insulting anyone, unlike you. >>


Whitty? You call that whitty? Sure, if he meant it in comical sense then it was pretty funny. Otherwise it's assinine.

I wasn't insulting anyone, I was simply stating a fact.

 

[Yeeny]

I am Pro Life, and anti death penalty. I do not believe we ever have the right to take a life, period, but that is just my view, and I don't expect anyone else to change theirs because of mine. But I think Isla is right, you need to realize not everything is black and white, and maybe try to fix the issues that cause the problem. People make mistakes, we all have done things we regret. So maybe instead of bashing people who have had an abortion, you should try to have a little compassion for them. I don't believe for a second that most women do not regret that decision when they look back on it.

There are thirteen year old girls running around sleeping with whomever just to get knocked up. They know better but its what they want.

Do you honestly believe thirteen year old girls are having sex, knowing totally what the consequences hold? They are just children, and children make stupid decisions. That is what being a kid is all about.

 

[eakers]

<< Even junior schoolbooks show the process of how a baby grows in the womb, and it looks rather like a baby even at a month or so >>



go back and look at those books
at a month there is no resemblance to a baby.

share what you know, learn what you dont.

*kat. <-- not touching this with a ten foot poll anymore cuz she gets angry.

 

[loosbrew]

<< A father does have a right to the baby. No his body doesn't move around and shift, but then she knew what could happen whe she CHOSE to lay down. >>



hmmmm, i wonder if he had anything to do with that laying down part? i wonder how willing many of these girls are towards these horny men.



<< Besides her sacrifices are nothing compared to what sacrifices he would make while raising the child. Also, its not the man's fault that he's not the one that gets pregnant. I'm sorry, but a few bowel kicks and stretch marks is better than killing a baby especially when the mother uses the excuse...I can't take care of it. Then give it to someone who can. He goes through emotional turmoil just like the mother, and most fathers feel as if they are going through the pregnancy with them. Apparently you are not a father or you don't have a lot of emotions or feelings. Listen to the song &quot;with arms wide open.&quot; A fathers view of pregnancy written when he found out his wife was pregnant. >>



a pregancy sacrafices a lot more than just a few kicks in the bowels. maybe your partner was very willing to have a child and so took these sacrafices with great heart and determinstaion, and so i admire any mother who does. i suggest you read up on exactly what a pregnancy does to a womans body. and please, dont go to your favorite church and ask you priest what he thinks a woman goes through. emotional turmoil isnt 1/10 of what a woman goes through. im sorry but i dont like the band Creed. but by reading and seeing his story(if vh1's BTM is at all true)then hes one of the biggest BS'ers in the world.

There are reasons why china have such strict laws. and like any other country, if laws are broken you pay the consequence. the doctor shouldve been fined too, he/she coulve made it a much easier situation if he just followed the rules.




<< We told people that slavery will no longer be allowed. We told men that they can no longer beat their wives (legally). We told women that they are equal and have the right to vote. We told blacks and other minorities that they have rights too. Who am I to say this? I wonder what you would have said back then? Probably the BS you said now. >>



ok, study the people that were oppressing all of these people that were...getting beaten and enslaved. they were people just like many of the people that disagree with abortion. so by the way things are going, id say that....im kind of right.

loosbrew

 

[Str8UpKiller]

just caught up with this thread... All I have to say is

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


too late it has begun.

 

[wxman]

You guys!

The issue is not that of the body of the baby. As we know they are a dime a dozen, however the soul of that child, of myself, can never be killed. It is eternal. And a soul would never inhabit the body of an unborn child that is going to be aborted.
You have to step back and look at the whole picture, not just the mothers choice/no-choice issue. That unborn body has no soul attached to it, so it really isn't an issue at all. No one is killed, and God's eternal plan goes on, without missing a beat.

 

[FettsBabe]

Yes, thirteen year old girls know they can get pregnant by having sex. If they don't know they can get pregnant then they need to have a long discussion with their parents. They should also listen up in school because its taught there as well.

Do they understand what it takes to be a parent...No, but no one really knows what it takes to be a parent until they become one. There are thirteen year old's going around trying to become pregnant. I don't feel that a baby should die because of a teenager's ignorance or inability to make a logical decision. Children know more that we think they do. Maybe we need to give them some credit and make them take responsibility for their actions. Adoption is a good option for kids who become pregnant. Abortion can give them emotional turmoil the rest of their life.

 

[bigbootydaddy]

yeah...i hate the fact that a bunch of reps/democrats get to decide what the fate of the nation is about bringing another into the world. most cant even have kids and they get to decide. but stick them in a situation like some poor girl and see how hot they do.

prochoice i guess.