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President Obama announces support for gay marriage

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gevorg said:
This must solve all our problems now. I will vote for Obama just for this. Give him a second Nobel Peace prize!!
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Yep. Our unemployment problems are now magically fixed, $15T debt will be forgiven and all sorts of other good things will now occur. Hooray!
 
Yay for Obama. He took a stand against his own hypocrisy and political best interest, because of shame. His evolving thing was a lie and he knew it. Whatever the price he finally stands with what he knew is right. He took the one thing that made him look like Romney off the table. And every piece of scum on the right will crucify him for it. Who the fuck cares. Of what use is the praise of folk with defective brains.
 
Moonbeam said:
Yay for Obama. He took a stand against his own hypocrisy and political best interest, because of shame. His evolving thing was a lie and he knew it. Whatever the price he finally stands with what he knew is right. He took the one thing that made him look like Romney off the table. And every piece of scum on the right will crucify him for it. Who the fuck cares. Of what use is the praise of folk with defective brains.
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He's not losing any of their (Pokerguy like) votes that's for sure.
 
Regardless of political expediency for Obama, gay marriage is something that should be legal and acceptable.
 
Moonbeam said:
He will lose votes among older independent bigots and gain nothing elsewhere as I see it.
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As I posted earlier in the thread, I think it's a risky strategy. We are not as evolved as I'd like us to be yet. He has to wait for the parade to form before he gets out in front of it.
 
cybrsage said:
Actually, based on his professed religion, he flip flopped to a position against his morals. Unless he was lying about his religion being important to him and all that.
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He realized that religion is a crutch and changed his position accordingly.
 
"I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. Now, for me as a Christian ... it is also a sacred union." Barack Obama

"I am a fierce supporter of domestic-partnership and civil-union laws. I am not a supporter of gay marriage as it has been thrown about primarily just as a strategic issue." Barack Obama

Now if gays want to subject themselves to the horrors of marriage so be it... but I would like to see the resident lefties have a flip-flop thread for someone other than Romney.
 
rudder said:
"I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. Now, for me as a Christian ... it is also a sacred union." Barack Obama

"I am a fierce supporter of domestic-partnership and civil-union laws. I am not a supporter of gay marriage as it has been thrown about primarily just as a strategic issue." Barack Obama

Now if gays want to subject themselves to the horrors of marriage so be it... but I would like to see the resident lefties have a flip-flop thread for someone other than Romney.
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I'm sure you can find it right under your own Romney flip flop thread.
 
cybrsage said:
Actually, based on his professed religion, he flip flopped to a position against his morals. Unless he was lying about his religion being important to him and all that.
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Actually support for gay marriage is pretty prevalent amongst christians. It's a social issue that gaining support at a fast pace. Many people realize that those in their religion who oppose gay marriage are just picking and choose what parts of their religion to support. In addition a large amount of christians are also as supportive of the separation of church and state as our founding fathers were (that is to say 100% supportive).

The Bible supports slavery, I'd say a vast majority of Christians in this nation are against that, doesn't mean they're going against their religion.
 
rudder said:
"I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. Now, for me as a Christian ... it is also a sacred union." Barack Obama

"I am a fierce supporter of domestic-partnership and civil-union laws. I am not a supporter of gay marriage as it has been thrown about primarily just as a strategic issue." Barack Obama

Now if gays want to subject themselves to the horrors of marriage so be it... but I would like to see the resident lefties have a flip-flop thread for someone other than Romney.
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shut up you hick fuck.

No personal insults allowed in P&N.

1 point infraction.

Fern
Super Moderator
 
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eskimospy said:
Of course I wouldn't change the wording to that, why on earth would I do that? It's wonderful because it's the right thing to do. Obama may be doing it for reasons of political advantage, but I find it a happy day when people are rewarded for acting morally.

I was very disappointed in Obama when he changed his position on gay marriage in 2008 to pander to bigots. I'm happy to see he's changed it back.
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This. Courage of unpopular convictions is not a common virtue in politicians. Nor is it one we reward. If Obama is taking a chance, kudos to him. If his polling shows this is to his advantage, then kudos to us.

LunarRay said:
Seems an interesting game of math to me...

Obama has 253 strong Democratic State Electorials atm.... He can lose Florida and North Carolina and win Indiana and Ohio and not need any other weak Democratic (Iowa, Colorado, New Hampshire) or remaining swing State. He'd get 282 electorials...

It seems his coming out of the closit or sit room or what ever his evolution process was solidifies his lead...

I always thought expansion of Rights was a philosophical norm held by all Americans... Guess Rights along with Wealth are best kept by those who have them and defended by the holders with vigor. Where is Jesse Helms when you want to kick someone....
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Sadly, expansion of Rights is a philosophical norm held by very few Americans. The left touts expansion of entitlements as rights, but fights to prevent others from holding different views in such things as First Amendment religious freedom (infringing the right to freely practice one's religion - it ain't the NRA dragging students off stage if they dare to thank G-d) and free speech (e.g. recurrent hate crime legislation) and Second Amendment (destroying our right to bear arms.) The right is arguably even worse, pushing gay discrimination and when practical, morality laws such as Blue Laws. (I know, all laws are morality-based, but good laws focus on what one does to others and let G-d take care of his realm.) Basically most Americans are fine with using the armed might of government to force people to be more like themselves. Or at least, less openly unlike themselves.
 
How hard it is to get Obama to say he supports ending discrimination on gay marriage, facing a country with a 33-1 record of states voting for discrimination, is a little taste of how earlier leaders in the civil rights movement faced difficulty in supporting the end of Jim Crow laws that had wide popular support in many places.

President Kennedy talked about how the public could only handle change at a certain speed, that seems a bit similar to Obama spending years 'evolving' on this.

Of course, evolving meant 'trying to have it both ways', holding out a carrot for the non-bigots while minimizing the cost with the bigots.

But that's the issue the leaders face on both issues - it can put their election, their legislative program, at risk fighting this battle and they have to make choices.

I was watching a biography of Clinton that reminded how in the middle of his budget battle he mentioned he was for ending gay discrimination in the military, and it took over the political discussion threatening his budget, resulting in the compromise no one was happy with - because Colin Powell and Sen. Sam Nunn and others fought for discrimination of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'.

I dont give Obama as much credit for leadership on this as I give to earlier leaders who supported civil rights, but it is some leadership and clearly better than the right.

Wall Street has unsurprisingly switched from Obama in 2008 to Romney in 2012, and it's reported he's partly made up for it from donations from people favoring gay equality.

This issue was going to dog him all through the year making him look weak for not taking a clear position, so it seems to me this was a calculated political move.

Which puts him far ahead of Romney on the issue.

So we have a choice: the candidate serving casino gambling corruption of Wall Street taking American's wealth and threatening the economy, or the one for basic rights.

Was Biden's interview a planned part of the process? Some say no, I have to suspect it. Not that there's anything wrong with that, pun intended.
 
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PokerGuy said:
Like I said earlier, it is funny to see the full hypocrisy on display. When Romney does something, he's a flip flopper.

When obummer does the mother of all flip flops,

the adoring throng commend him for it 😀

Basically, you're saying you're fine with someone having no spine and just going with the political winds, as long as the "flip" or the "flop" happens to be in the direction you agree with.
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You think this is the "mother of all flip flops"?

Wow

At least you are honest in how much you hate Americans.
 
dwell said:
Just in time for the elections. Who would have thought!
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First, this isn't a clear vote getter. Reportedly the record of state elections has been 33-1 FOR discrimination agaisnt the Obama position. Polls show a close split nationally.

Second, you really can't claim that this is an issue for Obama, compared to the biggest flip flopper in the modern political era for the worst reasons.
 
eskimospy said:
Of course I wouldn't change the wording to that, why on earth would I do that? It's wonderful because it's the right thing to do. Obama may be doing it for reasons of political advantage, but I find it a happy day when people are rewarded for acting morally.

I was very disappointed in Obama when he changed his position on gay marriage in 2008 to pander to bigots. I'm happy to see he's changed it back.
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That's the rub. According to the dictionary's definition of the word bigot, you are also a bigot. You are intolerant of people whom you declare are intolerant.
 
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BTW - tell me what President Obama is going to do on the subject of gay marriage other than mention it in a campaign speech every now and then?

I mean, you can get all excited and everything he mentioned it - but will he actually do something that makes a significant change on the issue?
 
Craig234 said:
First, this isn't a clear vote getter. Reportedly the record of state elections has been 33-1 FOR discrimination agaisnt the Obama position. Polls show a close split nationally.

Second, you really can't claim that this is an issue for Obama, compared to the biggest flip flopper in the modern political era for the worst reasons.
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So in 33 states this isn't a clear reason not to vote against Obama since their states are safe from the horrors of gay marriage.

Obama's far left. I think it's pretty safe to say he changed his public stance not to gain political advantage, but because he no longer faced a political disadvantage to do so. There are few anti-gay marriage people on the far left. Admittedly, two thirds of blacks are against it, but blacks tend to be religious, fairly traditional Americans rather than far left.
 
cubby1223 said:
BTW - tell me what President Obama is going to do on the subject of gay marriage other than mention it in a campaign speech every now and then?

I mean, you can get all excited and everything he mentioned it - but will he actually do something that makes a significant change on the issue?
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I've had only the very mildest taste as a straight white male southerner, but when everyone is against you, someone simply not being openly against you probably looks pretty darned good.
 
2008

Obama told MTV he believes marriage is "between a man and a woman" and that he is "not in favor of gay marriage."
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He had "hope" to ride on then.

2012

This stunt which leads gays on to thinking he'll turn it around after the elections. Guaranteed if he wins nothing changes in his next four years.
 
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