President Obama 2012 State of The union Address

[irishScott]

Do you disagree with the definition? If so i want to hear what you consider a 'socialist'?

The definition on wikipedia, as per the sources cited (several modern sources to your one analysis of 40 100-year-old sources). By the definition you posted, every capitalist nation in the world is socialist. By that definition the "general welfare" clause in the Constitution or any government that plays any role in economics at all is socialist. There are so many issues with your definition it's hilarious.

I figure either you wanted to assign "socialist" to Obama and searched through the myriad definition until you found one general enough to fit, or you were fed that definition by a tea party blog somewhere.

 

[theeedude]

oh oh. payroll tax cut. The one Obama signed for 2 months. He wants it for the year now.

But only if he gets it his way. Because thats compromise. If republicans only did what a socialist obama wants.

I never knew republicans where supposd to be YES men to obama

Republicans don't want payroll tax extended? Now is their time to speak up.

 

[theeedude]

I know it may be foreign to you, but that's what real governors look like.

You mean what Bush's budget director who turned surpluses to deficits looks like.

 

[michal1980]

A higher taxes for everyone that makes over 250k.

I love how he talks about tax breaks for billionars, and millionars. Then says taxs should not go up for those making up to 250k.

PS there is a 3rd way to balance the budget - cuts. Obama claims that if the people makeing 250k or more dont pay more in taxes then those making less have to pay more.

 

[fskimospy]

Obama is making american more socialist.

He is proposing more and more socialist ideas.

The only people with poor understanding of the term are people like you that deny it.

The simple act of Obama making America more socialist does not make him a socialist. A basic understanding of this term would tell you that. It is a continuum.

You're just trying to use a loaded term because that's what you've been taught to do, and the term is only loaded because most people understand it as poorly as you do. By any reasonable world standard Obama is exceptionally capitalistic.

 

[michal1980]

The definition on wikipedia, as per the sources cited (several modern sources to your one analysis of 40 100-year-old sources). By the definition you posted, every capitalist nation in the world is socialist. By that definition the "general welfare" clause in the Constitution or any government that plays any role in economics at all is socialist. There are so many issues with your definition it's hilarious.

I figure either you wanted to assign "socialist" to Obama and searched through the myriad definition until you found one general enough to fit, or you were fed that definition by a tea party blog somewhere.

Nope. I knew the term before. And yes, to some extent all countires are socialist. Obama is taking it even further.

Again, is there anything wrong with the definition? or you just have a problem with 'old' definitions. Because if you have a problem with the age, then you should stop using language, since most words have 'old' definitions.

 

[michal1980]

Oh look - Obama says he now wants up and down votes on nominations.

LOL only when he's in charge.

And more power for the executive office?

HA - I want less.

Concession building? - IE do want I King Obama want.

 

[irishScott]

Obama is making american more socialist.

He is proposing more and more socialist ideas.

The only people with poor understanding of the term are people like you that deny it.

And here we have the primary fallacy in your thinking "more socialist" != "socialist". When I leave my house to drive to the grocery store, I am technically going "towards the beach". That does not mean I'm going "to the beach". In fact I'm over an hour away.

 

[fskimospy]

A higher taxes for everyone that makes over 250k.

I love how he talks about tax breaks for billionars, and millionars. Then says taxs should not go up for those making up to 250k.

PS there is a 3rd way to balance the budget - cuts. Obama claims that if the people makeing 250k or more dont pay more in taxes then those making less have to pay more.

Ahhh, the myth of expansionary austerity. Europe has been engaging in savage budget cuts for about a year and a half now. How's that working out for them? Budget cuts in a recession lead to an even worse recession and limited improvement in deficits.

Europe is learning this, hopefully conservatives in America will take note of the failure of conservative economic policy.

 

[irishScott]

Nope. I knew the term before. And yes, to some extent all countires are socialist. Obama is taking it even further.

Again, is there anything wrong with the definition? or you just have a problem with 'old' definitions. Because if you have a problem with the age, then you should stop using language, since most words have 'old' definitions.

I gave my problems, generally, in the post you quoted idiot. Your definition is generalized to the point where it could apply to almost any democratic government anywhere in the modern world.

 

[michal1980]

Ahhh, the myth of expansionary austerity. Europe has been engaging in savage budget cuts for about a year and a half now. How's that working out for them? Budget cuts in a recession lead to an even worse recession and limited improvement in deficits.

Europe is learning this, hopefully conservatives in America will take note of the failure of conservative economic policy.

And tax increase are what if not taking money out of the economy?

 

[fskimospy]

Nope. I knew the term before. And yes, to some extent all countires are socialist. Obama is taking it even further.

Again, is there anything wrong with the definition? or you just have a problem with 'old' definitions. Because if you have a problem with the age, then you should stop using language, since most words have 'old' definitions.

Obama is one of the least socialist leaders in the entire western world. To call him a socialist either destroys the definition of the word or exposes the ignorance of the person using it. Gee, I wonder which one it is.

 

[fskimospy]

And tax increase are what if not taking money out of the economy?

Obama has massively cut taxes.

 

[michal1980]

And here we have the primary fallacy in your thinking "more socialist" != "socialist". When I leave my house to drive to the grocery store, I am going "towards the beach". That does not mean I'm going "to the beach".

Obama is proposing that goverment creates more 'fairness'.

That is a socialist idea.


Your trying to argue that you are not going to the grocery store. even though thats where you are going.

 

[michal1980]

Obama has massively cut taxes.

and is asking for tax increases.

 

[michal1980]

I gave my problems, generally, in the post you quoted idiot. Your definition is generalized to the point where it could apply to almost any democratic government anywhere in the modern world.

When Obama says that captialism failed, and goverment needs to create a more 'fair' america.

Then what ideas is stating?

They certianly are not capitlistic

 

[fskimospy]

Obama is proposing that goverment creates more 'fairness'.

That is a socialist idea.

We already covered this. By your definition basically the entire world is socialist.

 

[Jhhnn]

oh oh. payroll tax cut. The one Obama signed for 2 months. He wants it for the year now.

But only if he gets it his way. Because thats compromise. If republicans only did what a socialist obama wants.

I never knew republicans where supposd to be YES men to obama

Republicans never met a tax cut they didn't like, so long as it was mainly for the Rich. This one just doesn't satisfy, does it?

Hell, for the true Bush constituency, a $2K tax cut isn't even walkin' around money...

 

[irishScott]

Obama is proposing that goverment creates more 'fairness'.

That is a socialist idea.

Actually, the Republicans were also advocating "fairness" in their response.

"We do not accept that ours will ever be a nation of haves and have nots; we must always be a nation of haves and soon to haves," Daniels said."

So I guess Obama's opponents are also socialist. You're screwed.

 

[fskimospy]

and is asking for tax increases.

But not net tax increases in the near term.

Only in America is the conservative opposition so insane that they look at a president who has presided over a colossal decrease in the tax burden over 3 years and call him a tax raising commiesocialistblackmuslimomgnazi.

Seriously, you guys have lost all ability to objectively understand reality.

 

[michal1980]

We already covered this. By your definition basically the entire world is socialist.

To some extent.

However, Obama is more socialist then the country currently is.

"modern social democracy emphasises a program of gradual legislative reform of capitalism in order to make it more equitable and humane"

 

[UberNeuman]

Seriously, you guys have lost all ability to objectively understand reality.

And this is why the "modern GOP" shouldn't allowed to lead...

 

[michal1980]

But not net tax increases in the near term.

Only in America is the conservative opposition so insane that they look at a president who has presided over a colossal decrease in the tax burden over 3 years and call him a tax raising commiesocialistblackmuslimomgnazi.

Seriously, you guys have lost all ability to objectively understand reality.

Seriously you guys cannot see the forest for the trees.

Guy is proposing more and more goverment control in order to create his more 'fair' america, while increase taxes on those making >250,000 dollars. Giving more and more hand outs to balance out the pie, etc etc.

Yet you deny what he is doing.

 

[irishScott]

To some extent.

However, Obama is more socialist then the country currently is.

"modern social democracy emphasises a program of gradual legislative reform of capitalism in order to make it more equitable and humane"

Oh, so you understand degrees of socialism you just use an outdated definition. Well now that we have your perspective down, and know that we are all some variety of socialist, I guess we can take your socialist accusations with an even bigger grain of salt. Since your definition is so general and diluted, it lacks the punch you were attempting to deliver. As of now your attempting to accuse anyone of being a "socialist" using your definition has no meaning.

 

[Jhhnn]

Obama is proposing that goverment creates more 'fairness'.

That is a socialist idea.

Yeh, anything other than a return to the after tax income distribution of the Gilded Age is obviously socialist. America was a socialist hellhole before Saint Ronnie came to save our souls, huh? Shared goals and societal wealth, assets held by the community, are obviously socialist, too.