Pregnant nurse fired for not taking flu vaccine

[Texashiker]

Warning label for the vaccine says "'should be given to a pregnant woman only if clearly needed."

Vaccine has not been tested on pregnant women.

Woman had previous miscarriages.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ED-refuses-flu-shot-protect-unborn-child.html

How can a company fire someone for not taking a tested vaccine?

 

[fskimospy]

Warning label for the vaccine says "'should be given to a pregnant woman only if clearly needed."

Vaccine has not been tested on pregnant women.

Woman had previous miscarriages.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ED-refuses-flu-shot-protect-unborn-child.html

How can a company fire someone for not taking a tested vaccine?

Because otherwise she represents a significantly increased risk of transmitting a serious viral infection to a vulnerable population.

 

[glenn1]

Because otherwise she represents a significantly increased risk of transmitting a serious viral infection to a vulnerable population.

^ this. If you're in healthcare, you get your vaccinations if you want to keep your job, no exceptions. There are also non patient facing nursing positions available if she wanted to take that route, such as research.

 

[Texashiker]

Because otherwise she represents a significantly increased risk of transmitting a serious viral infection to a vulnerable population.

Reasonable accommodation.

Could she do a job that does not deal with the public?

 

[brycejones]

Reasonable accommodation.

Could she do a job that does not deal with the public?

What good is a nurse that doesn't see patients? Especially if her current nursing job is to give patients IVs in their homes. This means she is most likely serving a population that is extremely susceptible to infections.

 

[glenn1]

Reasonable accommodation.

Could she do a job that does not deal with the public?

There are no "reasonable accomodations" when it comes to best practices that would directly and indisputably jeopardize patient health. If I were a surgeon, should I get a "reasonable accomodation" not to wash my hands before I operate on you because the soap irritates my skin? No flu shots is in the same category.

And of course she can get a non-client facing position, although I don't think the hospital should be obliged to provide her with a job if an opening doesn't exist.

 

[Texashiker]

What good is a nurse that doesn't see patients?

There is this thing called quality control where nurses review charts.

Did her employer make reasonable accommodation for her condition?

There are no "reasonable accomodations" when it comes to best practices that would directly and indisputably jeopardize patient health.

You want to talk about "best practices"?

What about using an untested vaccine? how is that best practices?

How is using an untested vaccine on a pregnant woman best practice?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

The good news is she's a nurse and can easily get a job anywhere in the U.S.

 

[fskimospy]

Seriously, would anyone want to be admitted to a hospital that didn't make their nurses get vaccinations? I would run out of there so fast there would be a cartoon dust outline of my body.

 

[Texashiker]

Seriously, would anyone want to be admitted to a hospital that didn't make their nurses get vaccinations?

Why would anyone want to be admitted to a hospital that uses unproven medicine?

Or, why would anyone want to go into a hospital that forces their employees to use medicine that has not been tested?

 

[DrPizza]

Yet another TexasHiker anti-vaccine thread. Spouting more ignorance.

In reality, the CDC *RECOMMENDS* that pregnant women get the seasonal flu vaccine. Pregnant women are more likely than non-pregnant women to have complications from the flu. Her baby is SAFER if she gets the vaccine than if she doesn't.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/qa_vacpregnant.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/features/pregnancyandflu/
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/influenza/AN00651
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/266513.php
http://thestir.cafemom.com/pregnancy/161733/4_myths_about_pregnancy_the

Sounds like the OP is ignorant AND the nurse in PA is ignorant. A nurse who refuses to rely on a preponderance of evidence for best practices for herself and unborn baby - I wouldn't want her treating me.

 

[Texashiker]

Yet another TexasHiker anti-vaccine thread. Spouting more ignorance.

Yet another teacher jumping to conclusions.

Did you read the linked article in the opening post?

The vaccine has not been tested on pregnant women. I am pretty sure the vaccines you give your livestock have been tested and approved. Why should we hold a pregnant woman to a different standard?

And, how many times do I have to say I am not anti-vaccine?

 

[brycejones]

Why would anyone want to be admitted to a hospital that uses unproven medicine?

Ok, since you are now an expert on flu vaccine and pregnancy please cite the studies that indicates its a risk to give vaccine to pregnant women. The one thing that bothers me in this whole scenario is that "her midwife told her it could harm the baby". Yes I get the labeling on the vaccine but that sounds pretty general and typical and many things are labeled that if you're pregnant consult a physician first.

 

[brycejones]

The vaccine has not been tested on pregnant women.

Many drugs and treatments are not tested on pregnant women but are used by them on a daily basis.

 

[Texashiker]

Ok, since you are now an expert on flu vaccine and pregnancy please cite the studies that indicates its a risk to give vaccine to pregnant women.

Never said I was an expert.

Shouldn't the proper FDA testing and approval be done before something is mandatory?

 

[brycejones]

Never said I was an expert.

Shouldn't the proper FDA testing and approval be done before something is mandatory?

See above about testing and pregnant woman. Also medical "advice" in this case is from a mid-wife and not a doctor.

 

[DrPizza]

Never said I was an expert.

Shouldn't the proper FDA testing and approval be done before something is mandatory?

And I gave links to experts as well as studies that show the flu vaccine does NOT harm fetuses. I know you're from Texas, so maybe this is news to you, but perhaps you shouldn't believe everything you read from poorly written articles. In that article, it stated that she didn't have symptoms of the flu, so that was part of the justification for not getting the vaccine. That's a huge freaking red flag of ignorance. If you have symptoms, IT'S TOO LATE! The flu shot isn't going to do shit. (Well, except for the 'tards who have symptoms, get the shot, then claim the shot gave them the worse flu of their lives.)

 

[Texashiker]

See above about testing and pregnant woman. Also medical "advice" in this case is from a mid-wife and not a doctor.

You left out the paperwork that came with the vaccine. Did you leave that out on purpose?

Is being pregnant a protected class?

If so, did the employer make reasonable accommodations?

 

[brycejones]

You left out the paperwork that came with the vaccine. Did you leave that out on purpose?

Is being pregnant a protected class?

If so, did the employer make reasonable accommodations?

No, because the "warning" is the same as on many other drugs and basically amounts to a "consult a physician first" statement. Her employer does home health care. You seem to be trying to make up jobs that may or not exist at her employer and calling it a "reasonable accommodation".

 

[DrPizza]

Here, I spent 10 seconds on scholar.google.com to find some peer reviewed sources for you: (10 seconds because I'm also streaming John Capparulo to my television and he was being funny for 8 of those seconds)

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002937811002262
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X03003517
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2760905/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0891552005702713

You'll be hard pressed to find any peer reviewed literature that recommends pregnant women *not* get the flu shot.

Friendly, helpful advice:
Stop making the 2 or 3 annual anti-flu vaccination threads that you always do - they make you look incredibly ignorant. There are plenty of threads where you actually have demonstrated yourself to be knowledgeable; avoid vaccine threads because that paints a huge perception otherwise. I don't think you've ever had a compelling argument in one of these threads that wasn't immediately debunked by numerous posters.

 

[glenn1]

There is this thing called quality control where nurses review charts.

Did her employer make reasonable accommodation for her condition?

Pregnancy does not constitute cause for a "reasonable accomodation" on vaccinations for patient facing healthcare workers.

http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/eeoc-provides-useful-guidance-on-mandato-99129/

You want to talk about "best practices"?

What about using an untested vaccine? how is that best practices?

How is using an untested vaccine on a pregnant woman best practice?

They don't test them because the formulation changes annually based on what flu strains are deemed to be most prevalent; flu season would be over before you even identified test subject much less conducted the tests. Stop and think for a minute and don't succumb to Jenny McCarthy-type idiocracy on this topic.

 

[Texashiker]

Here, I spent 10 seconds on scholar.google.com to find some peer reviewed sources for you: (10 seconds because I'm also streaming John Capparulo to my television and he was being funny for 8 of those seconds)

If you have symptoms, IT'S TOO LATE! The flu shot isn't going to do shit. (Well, except for the 'tards who have symptoms, get the shot, then claim the shot gave them the worse flu of their lives.)

My debate is not about the vaccine so much as civil rights.

Should a company be allowed to force its employees to use an untested medicine or be fired?

Could the employer accommodate her for a few months rather than force her to take an untested vaccine?

This is one reason why the United States is falling behind on womens rights. We excuse the firing of a woman for doing what she thinks is best for her unborn child. How many months off from work do nations like Germany provide their new mothers? But we are firing our mothers?

You are jumping to conclusions that this is an anti-vaccine thread, and you are wrong.

I never said I was anti-vaccine.

 

[dmcowen674]

How can a company fire someone for not taking a tested vaccine?

How long have you been on here and you haven't learned that Companies can do whatever the hell they want?

 

[umbrella39]

Warning label for the vaccine says "'should be given to a pregnant woman only if clearly needed."

Vaccine has not been tested on pregnant women.

Woman had previous miscarriages.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ED-refuses-flu-shot-protect-unborn-child.html

How can a company fire someone for not taking a tested vaccine?

Very easily, by working in a hospital. We don't have a choice, we'll sure we do... if we want jobs we take the shot. If we want to wish we had jobs, we skip it. Flu shot protects not only the Mom but the baby, the nurse has an agenda.

 

[fskimospy]

My debate is not about the vaccine so much as civil rights.

Should a company be allowed to force its employees to use an untested medicine or be fired?

Could the employer accommodate her for a few months rather than force her to take an untested vaccine?

This is one reason why the United States is falling behind on womens rights. We excuse the firing of a woman for doing what she thinks is best for her unborn child. How many months off from work do nations like Germany provide their new mothers? But we are firing our mothers?

You are jumping to conclusions that this is an anti-vaccine thread, and you are wrong.

I never said I was anti-vaccine.

No, you do not have a right to place hundreds or thousands of other people in a vulnerable population at risk. Your company is not required to allow you to place that population at risk because you are pregnant.

Hospital transmitted infections are an absolutely enormous problem. Any hospital that is not taking every possible step to prevent them is negligent in the extreme. Allowing nurses to not vaccinate themselves because a midwife said something is a joke.