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Pot 'doubles mental health risk'
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Drugs are all fun and games until you are digging through trash cans cold and half naked looking for syringes, hands shaking.. looking for your next FIX.
Drugs are for people with a need to cover something up inside that is deficient, its an unhealthy (theres no arguing with this) way of dealing with a problem. Or its just a nice way to kill braincells because some dumb kid wants to have a few laughs with their friends.
But yet again, if you have to have pot to have a few laughs with your friends... does that not tell you something?
Druggies (and those who embrace them) are full of excuses (and ****), but in reality, its pretty hard to defend junkies looking for their next tweak.
I guess if people insist on living a unhealthy lifestyle, that is also illegal and mind wind them up in jail.. thats "cool".
But if I caught you getting my kid high, you might have a bullet in that empty space between your ears. But I'll prob leave the empty spot between your ears alone, I'll just have you arrested.
It doesnt pay to be a junkie, and it doesnt pay to raise junkies who break the law and try to encourage criminal activity like you do.
As said, you are better off putting your efforts to something other than illegal acts or justifying them.. make it legal. Then you might have a leg to stand on. But at that point, it would be no better than alchohol.. which isnt exaclty a beloved drug itself. But at least its legal, and accepted by more than the lunatic fringe.
Drugs are for people with a need to cover something up inside that is deficient, its an unhealthy (theres no arguing with this) way of dealing with a problem. Or its just a nice way to kill braincells because some dumb kid wants to have a few laughs with their friends.
But yet again, if you have to have pot to have a few laughs with your friends... does that not tell you something?
Druggies (and those who embrace them) are full of excuses (and ****), but in reality, its pretty hard to defend junkies looking for their next tweak.
I guess if people insist on living a unhealthy lifestyle, that is also illegal and mind wind them up in jail.. thats "cool".
But if I caught you getting my kid high, you might have a bullet in that empty space between your ears. But I'll prob leave the empty spot between your ears alone, I'll just have you arrested.
It doesnt pay to be a junkie, and it doesnt pay to raise junkies who break the law and try to encourage criminal activity like you do.
As said, you are better off putting your efforts to something other than illegal acts or justifying them.. make it legal. Then you might have a leg to stand on. But at that point, it would be no better than alchohol.. which isnt exaclty a beloved drug itself. But at least its legal, and accepted by more than the lunatic fringe.
Smoking cannabis virtually doubles the risk of developing mental illnesses such as schizophrenia, researchers say.
The New Zealand scientists said their study suggested this was probably due to chemical changes in the brain which resulted from smoking the drug.
The study, published in the journal Addiction, followed over 1,000 people born in 1977 for 25 years.
UK mental health campaigners said it was more evidence of a "drug-induced mental health crisis".
The researchers, from the University of Otago, interviewed people taking part in the Christchurch Health and Development Study about their cannabis use at the ages of 18, 21 and 25.
This is the latest in long line of international research over the last 12 months that shows we are facing a drug-induced mental health crisis
Paul Corry, Rethink,
They were also interviewed about various aspects of their mental health.
The scientists found psychotic symptoms were more common among cannabis users.
They analysed their findings to take into account of the possibility that their illness encouraged people to use more cannabis, rather than the drug contributing to their condition.
But the researchers said the link was not likely to be due to people with mental illness having a greater wish to smoke cannabis.
Instead, they said cannabis may increase the chances of a person suffering psychosis by causing chemical changes to the brain.
The researchers also took into account factors such as family history, current mental disorders, and illicit substance abuse.
'Growing evidence'
The scientists, led by Professor David Fergusson, said it was likely cannabis use increased the chances of a person suffering psychosis by causing chemical changes to the brain.
Writing in Addiction, he added: "Even when all factors were taken into account, there was a clear increase in rates of psychotic symptoms after the start of regular use.
"These findings add to the growing body of evidence from different sources, all of which suggest that heavy use of cannabis may lead to increased risk of psychotic symptoms and disease in susceptible individuals."
Paul Corry, of the mental health charity Rethink, said: "This is the latest in long line of international research over the last 12 months that shows we are facing a drug-induced mental health crisis.
"Rethink is renewing its call to the Health Select Committee to investigate the latest research into the link between cannabis use and severe mental illness.
"We need action from the Department of Health and we need it now if we are to avoid the risk of tens of thousands of young people developing a severe mental illness in the future."
The Department of Health has said it will review all academic and clinical studies linking cannabis use to mental health problems.
-The tobacco industry
The New Zealand scientists said their study suggested this was probably due to chemical changes in the brain which resulted from smoking the drug.
The study, published in the journal Addiction, followed over 1,000 people born in 1977 for 25 years.
UK mental health campaigners said it was more evidence of a "drug-induced mental health crisis".
The researchers, from the University of Otago, interviewed people taking part in the Christchurch Health and Development Study about their cannabis use at the ages of 18, 21 and 25.
This is the latest in long line of international research over the last 12 months that shows we are facing a drug-induced mental health crisis
Paul Corry, Rethink,
They were also interviewed about various aspects of their mental health.
The scientists found psychotic symptoms were more common among cannabis users.
They analysed their findings to take into account of the possibility that their illness encouraged people to use more cannabis, rather than the drug contributing to their condition.
But the researchers said the link was not likely to be due to people with mental illness having a greater wish to smoke cannabis.
Instead, they said cannabis may increase the chances of a person suffering psychosis by causing chemical changes to the brain.
The researchers also took into account factors such as family history, current mental disorders, and illicit substance abuse.
'Growing evidence'
The scientists, led by Professor David Fergusson, said it was likely cannabis use increased the chances of a person suffering psychosis by causing chemical changes to the brain.
Writing in Addiction, he added: "Even when all factors were taken into account, there was a clear increase in rates of psychotic symptoms after the start of regular use.
"These findings add to the growing body of evidence from different sources, all of which suggest that heavy use of cannabis may lead to increased risk of psychotic symptoms and disease in susceptible individuals."
Paul Corry, of the mental health charity Rethink, said: "This is the latest in long line of international research over the last 12 months that shows we are facing a drug-induced mental health crisis.
"Rethink is renewing its call to the Health Select Committee to investigate the latest research into the link between cannabis use and severe mental illness.
"We need action from the Department of Health and we need it now if we are to avoid the risk of tens of thousands of young people developing a severe mental illness in the future."
The Department of Health has said it will review all academic and clinical studies linking cannabis use to mental health problems.
-The tobacco industry
Illicit vs non-Illicit drugs---> Have any of you heard of Vioxx? How about many people die a year from an allergic reaction to acetasylic acid? How many lives lost to ethanol?
D9THC has existed longer than any man made drug. Many argue the Marijuana is actually the fruit of knowledge of Biblic reference.
Meth does have uses ->Adderall and desoxyn. It's a phenethylamine, as are MANY fun things, like 2CB, MDMA, and Mescaline.
Heroin == opioid agonist == Fetanyl, Sublimaze, Oxycodone and time release version (Oxycontin), Hydrocodone (Vicodin), Morhpine, Methadone, and others.
Ever heard of Ayahuasca? or the Santo Daime? They successfully got the Brazillian government to tell the US DEA to fvck off because research showed that the Ayahuasca potions the forest people consumed made them healthier...
D9THC has existed longer than any man made drug. Many argue the Marijuana is actually the fruit of knowledge of Biblic reference.
Meth does have uses ->Adderall and desoxyn. It's a phenethylamine, as are MANY fun things, like 2CB, MDMA, and Mescaline.
Heroin == opioid agonist == Fetanyl, Sublimaze, Oxycodone and time release version (Oxycontin), Hydrocodone (Vicodin), Morhpine, Methadone, and others.
Ever heard of Ayahuasca? or the Santo Daime? They successfully got the Brazillian government to tell the US DEA to fvck off because research showed that the Ayahuasca potions the forest people consumed made them healthier...
Ok, Ok, Ok.. I've glanced through the thread, gotten the gist of it.
housecat, your views are honorable, if not a bit naive...
However, you must understand that often in order for things to change, people must break the law. I mean... If nobody was smoking pot, obviously.. it wouldn't be an issue.
The only way the law will ever change is if we, the "pro-pot" people.. smoke our pipes and stand up for what we believe in.
While I agree it's not exactly the most pressing issue in and of itself, the drug war is indeed a very serious issue, because it ties in with some of the other things you mention .. failing education, etc.. Money.
We waste so much of it. And for what? Nothing. Is the United States REALLY a better place because of the drug war? I bet if you did some research, the answer would be no. What has changed? The people who are going to use drugs, are going to use drugs. You cannot stop them, except by locking them up. Is that right? Is it moral to take someomes freedom away because they are hurting themselves? If you educate people with truth(ie, not bullsh!t like DARE), and let them make their own decisions.. you are much more likely to end up with the desired results. Has drug use gone down since the drug war was initiated?
Are drugs a problem in The Netherlands? No. No more than they are here. What does that tell you?
Drugs are worth more now than they ever have been. Why? Because they are illegal.
This makes it just that much more worth-it for people to become drug dealers. It makes users commit crimes to get their fix because the drugs are so expensive.
Do you believe that alcohol should be illegal too? If not, what the fsck is wrong with you? If you do, I applaud you for consistency.. But I do not believe that being able to alter your state of consciousness is a bad thing, and I certainly do not believe that it should be against the law.
I'd probably get higher standing around at a gas station than I would smoking a bowl. 😛 And I don't even want to talk about drunks.
Geesh. If you want to stop drug use, you have to stop people from wanting to do drugs. This leads to the question.. what causes the need for drug use? Hint: It's not the drug. Whatever happened to personal responsibility, anyway?
housecat, your views are honorable, if not a bit naive...
However, you must understand that often in order for things to change, people must break the law. I mean... If nobody was smoking pot, obviously.. it wouldn't be an issue.
The only way the law will ever change is if we, the "pro-pot" people.. smoke our pipes and stand up for what we believe in.
While I agree it's not exactly the most pressing issue in and of itself, the drug war is indeed a very serious issue, because it ties in with some of the other things you mention .. failing education, etc.. Money.
We waste so much of it. And for what? Nothing. Is the United States REALLY a better place because of the drug war? I bet if you did some research, the answer would be no. What has changed? The people who are going to use drugs, are going to use drugs. You cannot stop them, except by locking them up. Is that right? Is it moral to take someomes freedom away because they are hurting themselves? If you educate people with truth(ie, not bullsh!t like DARE), and let them make their own decisions.. you are much more likely to end up with the desired results. Has drug use gone down since the drug war was initiated?
Are drugs a problem in The Netherlands? No. No more than they are here. What does that tell you?
Drugs are worth more now than they ever have been. Why? Because they are illegal.
This makes it just that much more worth-it for people to become drug dealers. It makes users commit crimes to get their fix because the drugs are so expensive.
Do you believe that alcohol should be illegal too? If not, what the fsck is wrong with you? If you do, I applaud you for consistency.. But I do not believe that being able to alter your state of consciousness is a bad thing, and I certainly do not believe that it should be against the law.
I'd probably get higher standing around at a gas station than I would smoking a bowl. 😛 And I don't even want to talk about drunks.
Geesh. If you want to stop drug use, you have to stop people from wanting to do drugs. This leads to the question.. what causes the need for drug use? Hint: It's not the drug. Whatever happened to personal responsibility, anyway?
imported_hscorpio
Golden Member
I was not refering to the movie, I was refering to the actual time period the movie was made in. Read some history books and educate yourself on the past. Don't just go through life without knowing why things are the way they are. There is a lot of information on the beginnings of marijuana prohibition. Start with some searches on anslinger if you have any clue who that is. It is a very interesting story. Theres this place where they keep lots of books that you could go to, just don't ask me how to get there.
The point is that even though the OD'er used alcohol first, there is absolutely no cause and effect relationship. Using alcohol does not somehow alter your body and make you want to use harder drugs. Using pot does not mean you are going to become a junkie. The gateway theory can be summed up like so:
All users of X used Y first. Therfore Y causes X. It just simply isn't a valid argument.
Alcohol is accepted because people like it. We tried to prohibit it and it caused more harm than good. The same thing is happening right now with pot, but people like you are in denial of it.
The question was what % of pot users go on to use/OD on heroin? If you believe the gateway BS then you should think that vast numbers of pot smokers eventually end up ODing on heroin. That is what the gateway theory is, that pot use leads to harder drugs which results in OD. It just doesn't happen. The LARGE majority of pot smokers never go on to use heroin just as the large majority of alcohol users never move on to heroin.
Get it?
Laws have been changed for pot. Ever hear of medical marijuana? Prop-215 in cali. Possession of small amounts have been decriminalized in some states. It has and is happening.
Well you should not tell me to stop posting crap just because you disagree. It is very rude. Don't dish it out if you can't receive it. If I have kids I would not encourage them to smoke pot. I also won't tell them a bunch of BS about it either. And when they are adults I will trust them to make there own decesions.
Yeah, yeah people have been using that "you don't know it's real effects" argument for years. The govt has tried and tried to come up with scientific proof to support their unfavorable position on pot. And what do we have after all these years? Where are the cancer findings? Where? You know what happened when researchers injected THC into rats with tumors? It actually prevented further tumor growth. Every time they try to set up a scientific study to show the dangers of pot it back fires on them and shows that pot just isn't that harmful. Thats why we have the damn gateway BS, they couldn't find anything seriously harmful with pot so the best they can do is say "yeah it might not be harmful but it leads to so-and-so drugs that kill you".
I made this mistake of going back to read what happened in this thread since I left it to go get high and I'm pretty disturbed. I don't know what kind of people housecat knows that have become complete addicts and ruined their lives, but it sounds awful.
I can go through a list of my best pothead friends and none of them are digging through trashcans looking for their next fix. One of the hardest working people I know is perhaps also the biggest pothead I have ever met and she has a 4.0 and works very hard at keeping it. Another one of my friends is an EMT who spends hours a day volunteering at a very demanding job which he doesn't even earn a cent for. He also ran his own computer company in high school and now owns a share of a marina. In fact, only a few of my friends that I smoke with don't go to college, and they are working hard at home to make something of their lives.
Smoking doesn't make you a bad person, it doesn't make you a lazy person, it doesn't make you a stupid person. It is only a host of stereotypes that are associated with the drug due to propoganda that makes people think that. I feel bad for anyone who doesn't understand that.
Maybe pot hasn't enhanced my life, but I have had some great times and made some great friends because of it. I haven't fallen behind in school and I haven't had any trouble with work. I certainly haven't tried coke or heroin, I'm not a junkie looking for needles in trashcans. I NEVER worry about getting my next "fix" on pot, its not something I need to function or even desire terribly on a daily basis. Its just a nice way to spend time with good friends.
Perhaps my friends and I are just the exceptions to this strange rule that pot is evil and destroys lives. Even if that were true, I still don't think anyone who smokes deserves the horrible generalizations that people like housecat attribute to smoking marijuana. It is ignorant and insulting. I thought that most people shed that sheep mentality in high school.
I can go through a list of my best pothead friends and none of them are digging through trashcans looking for their next fix. One of the hardest working people I know is perhaps also the biggest pothead I have ever met and she has a 4.0 and works very hard at keeping it. Another one of my friends is an EMT who spends hours a day volunteering at a very demanding job which he doesn't even earn a cent for. He also ran his own computer company in high school and now owns a share of a marina. In fact, only a few of my friends that I smoke with don't go to college, and they are working hard at home to make something of their lives.
Smoking doesn't make you a bad person, it doesn't make you a lazy person, it doesn't make you a stupid person. It is only a host of stereotypes that are associated with the drug due to propoganda that makes people think that. I feel bad for anyone who doesn't understand that.
Maybe pot hasn't enhanced my life, but I have had some great times and made some great friends because of it. I haven't fallen behind in school and I haven't had any trouble with work. I certainly haven't tried coke or heroin, I'm not a junkie looking for needles in trashcans. I NEVER worry about getting my next "fix" on pot, its not something I need to function or even desire terribly on a daily basis. Its just a nice way to spend time with good friends.
Perhaps my friends and I are just the exceptions to this strange rule that pot is evil and destroys lives. Even if that were true, I still don't think anyone who smokes deserves the horrible generalizations that people like housecat attribute to smoking marijuana. It is ignorant and insulting. I thought that most people shed that sheep mentality in high school.
Well, thank you, but no one replied to my last post.. which is why i dropped out of my chain debate that was going on here.
^^ Theres so much truth there that no one wants to actually come out and admit it. After rereading that now, I'm like "damn I was on fire". 😀 But the point to people posting here isnt to be like "oops I was wrong, guess I better stop participating in illegal acts that could effect my future plans (if I even have any anymore)", its to make excuses why you should be able to freely get your next fix.
This is a common "point made, and one that I despise.
For one the USA and the Netherlands have a HUGE population disparity, a completely different set of cultural and moral ranges (our roots are much more like England than Holland in this regard), the sheer SIZE of the USA means we cannot take an example of a nation the size of Rhode Island and say "this will work for us to".. let alone population, demographics, cultural differences..
comparing a tiny nation like Holland where something is PROPOSED to work.. then saying "do that here" is pretty disinenguous.
Why would we legalize another drug that is smoked in this day and age where we are trying to REDUCE smoking and not increase it? True, pot generally has a lower cancer rate than cigarettes (possibly due to radiation treatment of tobacco leaves), but I don't really think people are worried about cancer from 2nd hand smoke as much as they want a health reason to justify the fact that they don't like inhaling billowing clouds of smoke at any public place.
I would be much more infavor of legalizing THC in food form and still disallowing the smoking of it.
I would be much more infavor of legalizing THC in food form and still disallowing the smoking of it.
MrPickins
Diamond Member
All i had to do was read the first sentance of that and i was like "Damn that dude is an idiot" 😉
My pot smoking days are behind me, but I can garuntee I was never digging through trash cans looking for syringes. You keep talking about this "fix." Obviously you dont understand that pot does not cause a physical addiction. We're not talking about heroin or cocaine. What we are talking about is the warped perception which your government has ingrained in you from elementary school on.
You keep saying to make it legal. I challenge you to try to find a better funded lobbyist group than the Federal Government. Hell, they have access to your homes with anti-drug psa's (most of which are laguhably bad).
The cost on our society to imprison people charged with non-violent pot offenses is a burden on our treasury, one that is avoidable with regulation and taxation (the taxes would pay for counseling programs).
Remember those "drugs fund terrorism" commercials? That's only because prohibition allows them to. Same as the old time gangsters in alcohol prohibiton days.
Please learn to think for yourself instead of spouting the same nonsense.
If alcohol is legalized, why shouldn't pot be? You could argue that pot is probably safer than alcohol. With all the money the gov't is spending on fighting pot, the money could be put to better use (ie: education). Why doesn't that make people upset? The people opposing pot should oppose alcohol as well. It just doesn't make any sense.
Agreed that problems should be confronted. Too many people turn to unhealthy amounts of food, TV, drugs (including alcohol), etc. when faced with a problem they don't want to deal with.
Your argument that there is no use seperate from abuse, however, is wrong. Actually the vast majority of users are not abusers for most drugs - though nicotine and caffeine are huge exceptions to this.
You seem exceptionally rabid about this, are you a reformed addict, or is a family member or friend of yours? If so I'm sorry about the situation, but an inanimate substance is not to blame. People are. Too often we place those we love and respect (including ourselves) on pedestals; if anything happens to them, unwilling to admit imperfection, we wrongly place blame elsewhere. Nobody's perfect though, and it's ok to admit this.
meltdown75
Lifer
:laugh:
But have you ever been on ATOT... ON WEED??!!?
I'm glad you agree. The simple FACT of the situation is that right now, smoking pot is illegal.
Resorting to illegal actions, criminal actions.. to fix another problem, whether it be emotional, mental or physical.. is not the way to go.
Unless you want to end up in jail, or possibly prison.
Yes I do have close experiences like you describe with very close loved ones. I'm not going to disclose the story because people will just degrade my loved one, and downplay the situation.. something I dont care to let people on the internet do.
First off, people should read the original article.
Original journal article
Second, people can figure out what happens in the addicted brain
Overview of molecular basis of addiction
Now, I think humans can get addicted to anything. Dont matter what it is. It could be crack or even gettin off by rubbin your body up against another person in public places.
I think the bottom line is to treat addiction on the molecular level first. Then iron out whatever other psychosocial issues might be ailin you.
Of course if the above happens, now comes the issue of whether or not abuse gets worse since there are meds for the ugly face of withdrawal or chemical addiction...
Re: the article, if what theyre saying is true then there is some inexplicable link between pot and psychosis. They dont outline a TRUE causal link between the two on the molecular level, but it is definitely circumstantial evidence that points another finger at pot's possible guilt.
This bears repeating: THEY DONT OUTLINE A TRUE CAUSAL LINK BETWEEN POT AND PSYCHOSIS. All they are saying is that they are related to each other and they perform fancy statistical methods which suggest that pot leads to psychosis. THERE IS NO CAUSAL LINK!
It seems to me that the most questionable part is noticeable when you look at what institue the researchers are from. But im sure they arent biased at all 😉
Original journal article
Second, people can figure out what happens in the addicted brain
Overview of molecular basis of addiction
Now, I think humans can get addicted to anything. Dont matter what it is. It could be crack or even gettin off by rubbin your body up against another person in public places.
I think the bottom line is to treat addiction on the molecular level first. Then iron out whatever other psychosocial issues might be ailin you.
Of course if the above happens, now comes the issue of whether or not abuse gets worse since there are meds for the ugly face of withdrawal or chemical addiction...
Re: the article, if what theyre saying is true then there is some inexplicable link between pot and psychosis. They dont outline a TRUE causal link between the two on the molecular level, but it is definitely circumstantial evidence that points another finger at pot's possible guilt.
This bears repeating: THEY DONT OUTLINE A TRUE CAUSAL LINK BETWEEN POT AND PSYCHOSIS. All they are saying is that they are related to each other and they perform fancy statistical methods which suggest that pot leads to psychosis. THERE IS NO CAUSAL LINK!
It seems to me that the most questionable part is noticeable when you look at what institue the researchers are from. But im sure they arent biased at all 😉
Its stupid to break the law. Period. Unless its a good idea to end up in jail.
You arent protesting slavery or segregation here.. you are protesting the fact you cant freely get high.
Get real.
BUT, I for one WOULD be not opposed this:
fines for being caught with weed. No court or prison time. Just high fines, like $200 a joint or something.
I think that the prison time should be reserved for dealers and distributers. You average-joe potheads are costing the state too much money, and you should be supporting it like cigarette smokers. And if someone couldnt pay their fees, they can work it off by working for the state like prison workers do by making desks for public schools ect.
I think legalizing it is in effect, encouraging it. I dont think this is the thing to do.
Allowing a given behavior is encouraging it, period.
I'm not saying pot is any different than alchohol at all, so quit pretending I am! Alchohol, while "bad" (yes it is bad you damn druggies/alchoholics) IS legal.. and most likely for reasons I outlines, its VERY deeply ingrained in our culture from tens of thousands of years of usage.
Its not going anywhere period, and we have to have lines drawn somewhere. There is no getting around this.
I think you could get a majority to go along with my fines plan. But you just will never, ever get it legalized nationwide, ever.
Keep trying, but I'd suggest going for a compromise like fines. You'll get conservatives like me on board fast, and in case you havent noticed we rule this nation.
Kinda funny that the potheads and hippys best ally could possibly end up being conservatives huh?
I'm ALL for racking in the dough from this rather common drug rather than costing the state all the money it does.
You arent protesting slavery or segregation here.. you are protesting the fact you cant freely get high.
Get real.
BUT, I for one WOULD be not opposed this:
fines for being caught with weed. No court or prison time. Just high fines, like $200 a joint or something.
I think that the prison time should be reserved for dealers and distributers. You average-joe potheads are costing the state too much money, and you should be supporting it like cigarette smokers. And if someone couldnt pay their fees, they can work it off by working for the state like prison workers do by making desks for public schools ect.
I think legalizing it is in effect, encouraging it. I dont think this is the thing to do.
Allowing a given behavior is encouraging it, period.
I'm not saying pot is any different than alchohol at all, so quit pretending I am! Alchohol, while "bad" (yes it is bad you damn druggies/alchoholics) IS legal.. and most likely for reasons I outlines, its VERY deeply ingrained in our culture from tens of thousands of years of usage.
Its not going anywhere period, and we have to have lines drawn somewhere. There is no getting around this.
I think you could get a majority to go along with my fines plan. But you just will never, ever get it legalized nationwide, ever.
Keep trying, but I'd suggest going for a compromise like fines. You'll get conservatives like me on board fast, and in case you havent noticed we rule this nation.
Kinda funny that the potheads and hippys best ally could possibly end up being conservatives huh?
I'm ALL for racking in the dough from this rather common drug rather than costing the state all the money it does.
imported_hscorpio
Golden Member
:laugh::laugh: Please.
You have a problem with differentiating between "drugs" and pot don't you? You mistakingly use the terms interchangeably and equate pot with the same kinds of drugs that cause such addiction that can lead to "digging through trash cans cold and half naked looking for syringes, hands shaking.. looking for your next FIX.". This is understandable since it appears your limited knowledge of pot comes solely from DARE and Partnership for a Drug Free America type propaganda organisations.
Do you honestly think heroin is equal to pot? Do you think a "junkie" is just the same as someone who smokes pot? Do you have any concept of the differences between casual pot use, abusive pot use, and heroin use?
How about alcohol? Is everyone who drinks a lush and equivalent to "druggies"? Oh wait you can't grasp alcohol and "drug" comparisions can you? Maybe thats because you have a few beers in your fridge or a couple bottles of whiskey in your kitchen?
If you are a parent then there is more to worry about then your kid smoking some pot. Ever heard of the huge gang problems in our schools today? Where do you think all these violent gangs get their money from? Now think about how much of that money they get from selling alcohol on street corners. Follow me? Probably not...
Oh yeah sorry about calling you a prick, that was uncalled for.
imported_hscorpio
Golden Member
What about our current situation with tobacco. Clearly society/govt whatever you want to call it is not encouraging tobacco. I think we could have a similar situation with pot but even more strict. Simple decriminization doesn't really help since there will still be a large demand and therefore plenty of people that are willing to grow/smuggle and sell pot.
The best thing to do is heavily regulate the already existing pot market. This part is hard for many to grasp that the pot market is already here and we'll established. Might as well take it out of the criminals hands and put it into the very heavily regulated hands of law abiding business owners like alcohol. That way it could be taxed and we could also use part of the tax revenue on health warnings, etc. There could also be strict advertising laws like there is now with tobacco.
Well, you forget I'm against alchohol as well...
but I think (from the 30,000 years of cultural indoctrination and use) that alchohol isnt going anywhere.. its the majority that wants that, while the minority wants pot.. and I'm sure there are those out there who would legalize speed or heroin as well.
I mean, where does it stop? We have to draw some lines.
I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with you, but I'm saying that a reasonable solution that might actually pass is the continued criminalization of the market, with no risk of prisontime unless one is dealing or distributing.
That should satisfy the average pot smoker and satisfy the general public on its desire to not appear embracing of marijauna nationwide.
Regulating the pot market ect increases government size and costs again, like I said, the appeal to my compromise is that it actually only increases government revenue, while drastically reducing the silly prison sentences for marijauna use.
Conservatives, like myself will actually support this method. And surely its better than going to prison?
And if you dont get caught, good for you..but for the multitudes who get bigger balls because they know they arent going to prison and just get fined...
the state will get a helluva lot more $$$ and vastly reduce the money spent on building new prisons and pampering potheads who are in prison with 3 square meals a day and a glass of Chardonay.
I DO believe alchohol is more dangerous than pot. Dont get me wrong, Ive just repeated time after time that the fact of life in America and most Western nations is that its incredibly ingrained in our culture that drinking is OK.
This just is not changing, I cant say that enough.
imported_hscorpio
Golden Member
I could care less about satisfying potheads. I want to legalize pot for very different reasons than the average pothead. The statistics are definately iffy but I think around 30% of the US population has tried pot. I don't know the numbers for current smokers but they are significantly higher than any other illegal drug. Use of the really nasty ones like heroin are quite low. Pot has become part of the "counter culture" which today is more mainstream. Pot references in pop culture are everywhere, it really is quite common. Look at our last few presidents, and most other current politicians. They've tried it, I've tried it, you've tried it.
My point is that pot use errodes something crucial to our society. It undermines peoples respect for the law. When you make something criminal that a large % of the population does not think is really bad, well you get what we have now, wide disrespect and contempt for the law. When we lie to children and overemphasize the dangers of pot, they try it and realise it wasn't all we said it was. There goes our credibility and now it's even more likely that the kids won't listen when we warn them of the truly dangerous drugs like meth or heroin, etc.
Plus if we don't regulate the sale/production of pot then criminal enterprises will still be profiting from it. This is very bad. The price of high quality pot is almost worth its weight in gold today. Thats a lot of money to a lot of criminals.
Also I think some of the greatest assualts on the bill of rights come in the name of fighting "drugs". Nasty things like asset forefeiture and "dry conspiracies" that can and have hurt innocent people.
If we removed pot from the "drug war" we might actually have a chance of reducing the use of the hard stuff. I guess you could argue that this would increase the size of govt which I'm also against (I'm no tree hugger), but I think it might actually not. We wouldn't need as many DEA agents but we would need an increase in ATF agents to oversee the new pot regulations. We would definately have a reduction in prison size, so less rapists would be able to get paroled after only serving half their sentence due to overcrowded prisons.
Anything is better than the current failing situation.
Again you're not allowing for the fact that not only is use without abuse possible, but that it's the norm for both alcohol and pot. You also might be surprised how many people, especially well off people, use cocaine without abusing it. If your argument is that alcohol is ok because the majority of people are ok with it, isn't the logical extension of that that certain drugs are ok since the majority of people can use them without abusing them?
I'm sorry about your situation, I've been in it as well. You're allowing it to skew your viewpoint though, asserting that the government belongs in our private lives for the sake of a minority percentage of people who can't cope with their problems or use alcohol, pot, etc. in moderation. You're also asserting that those who are hurting only themselves (and debatably at that - marijuana and alcohol carry benefits as well, you know) need to be punished rather than helped.
I'm sorry about your situation, I've been in it as well. You're allowing it to skew your viewpoint though, asserting that the government belongs in our private lives for the sake of a minority percentage of people who can't cope with their problems or use alcohol, pot, etc. in moderation. You're also asserting that those who are hurting only themselves (and debatably at that - marijuana and alcohol carry benefits as well, you know) need to be punished rather than helped.
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