Pot 'doubles mental health risk'

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housecat

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
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So you guys would accept a plan like the one I proposed?

I honestly think it could be done, and its one that I'd actively support as a conservative. I'm actually a Republican, so I'm REALLY extreme.
;)
I think its a worthy and healthy change to our society and laws.
The money would go to whatever the gov't wanted to spend it on, hopefully it'd enable lower taxes.. but I'm sure part of the proceeds would go to helping people who are using things like pot to fill a void or fix a defiency with counseling and social assistance rather than incarceration for something relatively minor like smoking a joint.

I believe in rehabilitation of criminals through incarcertation (hey, better than torture right, or eye for an eye), but not the current system of putting a pothead in prison..

such a waste building all these prisons for relatively harmless crimes. As well as feeding them and having to pay a guard to take their Chardonay in the face when its slightly chilled instead of room temperature.
 

imported_hscorpio

Golden Member
Sep 1, 2004
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Originally posted by: housecat
So you guys would accept a plan like the one I proposed?

I honestly think it could be done, and its one that I'd actively support as a conservative. I'm actually a Republican, so I'm REALLY extreme.
;)
I think its a worthy and healthy change to our society and laws.

We'll yeah, but your plan is already in effect in many states. I can't remember which ones but a lot of states don't send people to jail anymore just for simple possession of personal amounts. You can look it up on norml.org if your interested. Even growing small amounts in some states is not punished harshly until they go over 100 or so plants and then the feds get them on felony charges. The laws/punishments very a lot from state to state though.

If you compare states that have effectively decriminalized simple possession to those that haven't there is almost no difference in use rates or anything else.

It's a step in the right direction but it wont do anything to help curb the gang crime and other ills associated with the unregulated blackmarket selling of pot.
 

housecat

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
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Right but we cant just decriminalize every black market, regulate it and call it the fix.

As far as I know, no state really does what I'm saying exactly.. but I know Texas is considering it very strongly because they are tired of building prisons for people who got caught smoking pot.
 

imported_Lucifer

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2004
5,139
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I smoke pot, and I think that is just pure BS!!!!

They say 1 joint equals 5 cigaretts, or something like that. Never heard of Pot related death.
 

imported_hscorpio

Golden Member
Sep 1, 2004
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Originally posted by: housecat
Right but we cant just decriminalize every black market, regulate it and call it the fix.

As far as I know, no state really does what I'm saying exactly.. but I know Texas is considering it very strongly because they are tired of building prisons for people who got caught smoking pot.


Of course we can't just regulate every blackmarket, but we definately could do it for pot and that is all I'm advocating.

I don't know exactly what you have in mind but this link has excellent state by state information check it out: http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4516

For instance in CA possession of up to 28.5gm(1 ounce) is a misdameanor punishable with a 100$ fine and ZERO jail time. Texas on the other hand punishes possession of up to 2ounces with up to 180 days jail and $2000 fine. It gets much harsher as quantity increases. According to that site I see 12 states that have decriminalized(read fine, no jail) for small possession.
 

housecat

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
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Sounds like you'd agree its a decent plan for now then.. to spread this nationwide.

I'd say more than $100 an ounce though.

I'd say $300 an 1/8th. Bring some nice revenue in while concurrently reducing new prisons and inmate daycare services.

And if it cannot be paid, minimum wage labor for the state could be allowed on weekends or when applicable. Labor could include working for the schools, public services like cleaning up roadsides, or working on building our new counseling and rehabilitation locations.

This, combined with mandatory 25 year sentences for production, dealing or distributing would be exceptional changes.
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
9,088
722
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Originally posted by: housecat
Sounds like you'd agree its a decent plan for now then.. to spread this nationwide.

I'd say more than $100 an ounce though.

I'd say $300 an 1/8th. Bring some nice revenue in while concurrently reducing new prisons and inmate daycare services.

And if it cannot be paid, minimum wage labor for the state could be allowed on weekends or when applicable. Labor could include working for the schools, public services like cleaning up roadsides, or working on building our new counseling and rehabilitation locations.

This, combined with mandatory 25 year sentences for production, dealing or distributing would be exceptional changes.


Do you realize that legalizing and taxing pot could generate far more money than fineing users, and would completely eliminate the criminal element in production and distribution?

It would also allow for industrial hemp to be grown and processed here in the US, creating jobs and whole new industries.
 

housecat

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
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I'd agree with you. If I thought it could be sold the American public on the national level.
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
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The reason it cant be sold on a national level is because of the anti-cannabis propoganda our government has been inundating us with since the 1930's. :(
 

imported_hscorpio

Golden Member
Sep 1, 2004
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Originally posted by: housecat

This, combined with mandatory 25 year sentences for production, dealing or distributing would be exceptional changes.

Definately no on this one. Remember your making it less costly for people to use/possess pot so demand is not going to go down. Really there is no way to decrease demand except through honest education and even that has it's limits. There will always be a strong demand for pot, just like there will always be for alcohol.

Now when you make the laws for the pot suppliers so harsh here is what happens. You push out the casual sellers and growers, all the normally law abiders who like to smoke so they grow their own and sell some on the side to their friends type. But the demad for pot will remain constant, so someone will step up and supply. Who do you think will risk such harsh punishments?

The same guys who risk the harsh punishments for coke and heroin. The really violent career criminal type with not much to lose. You will not reduce the supply with harsher sentences for selling! It never has worked, and trust me its been tried. There are actually people that have gotten life sentences for growing pot. Harsher sentences just shift the selling into even more desperate and violent hands.

The best answer is heavy regulation.

 

housecat

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
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The details could be worked out.. but I think the middle ground has been found at least.

I generally am regulation of any industry in general. Thats why I personally shy away from the words heavy regulation.
 

Schneider879

Senior member
Oct 10, 2004
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It's just a stupid idea anyway you look at it. We've all seen the health risks but people still do, your not going to stop everyone but you can maybe stop a person or two.
 

imported_hscorpio

Golden Member
Sep 1, 2004
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Originally posted by: housecat
The details could be worked out.. but I think the middle ground has been found at least.

I generally am regulation of any industry in general. Thats why I personally shy away from the words heavy regulation.

Well if marijuana were legalized there would have to be heavy regulation. We can't just let anyone sell it to anyone, I mean we wouldn't want some guy driving around in an ice cream truck selling 13yr old pot right? We'd want people to need a license to sell pot just like they need one for alcohol. We wouldn't want camel joe showing up in every commercial influencing kids to go buy camel joints right? Thats what I mean by heavy regulation.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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housecat, do you drink alcohol?

If so.. what would you have done in the prohibition days? Would you believe that it shouldn't be drank, simply because it was against the law?

What would you have done if you didn't believe in the law? Would you have not drank and tried to change the law? Or would you continue having your beer before bed and try to change the laws?

Think about it.
 

Gurck

Banned
Mar 16, 2004
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Wow, I'm just in shock here... How can anyone justify punishing people for doing something which doesn't affect others whatsoever?
 

housecat

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
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Originally posted by: hscorpio
Originally posted by: housecat
The details could be worked out.. but I think the middle ground has been found at least.

I generally am regulation of any industry in general. Thats why I personally shy away from the words heavy regulation.

Well if marijuana were legalized there would have to be heavy regulation. We can't just let anyone sell it to anyone, I mean we wouldn't want some guy driving around in an ice cream truck selling 13yr old pot right? We'd want people to need a license to sell pot just like they need one for alcohol. We wouldn't want camel joe showing up in every commercial influencing kids to go buy camel joints right? Thats what I mean by heavy regulation.


Yeah. I think we just disagree there.

I'd prefer to keep it illegal, without worry of prison penalty.

I dont like the idea of creating another generally not positive industry like the pot industry would be, for the government to regulate.
It might bring in more money your way, but at what additional cost (both in society and financially). Its kind of like the casino debate.
I'm not sure about it.. and as an aside, I dont think you could sell it to the American people on a whole either.

We'd get a whole lot of immediate positive results both financially, and freeing up some prisoners who could hopefully go back to work (=more tax money, instead of just feeding and putting a roof over their head), by starting with my method.

I'm not saying you are wrong, you have as much of a chance as I do at being right on this one.
But I think we could take my step first, then yours 2nd after some more debate and agreement nationwide. I'm not dead opposed to what you are suggesting (highly regulated pot industry).. but my method also gives you at least a foot in the door in accomplishing the end goal that you so desire.

edit- This is directed to other ppl that keep asking but- about my consumption of alchohol, no. I dont. I found over the years that I only enjoy it when I get together with old buddies from college or HS.. otherwise I just dont enjoy it and dont find it pleasurable. Plus I grew up with alot of alchoholics in my family.. just not the path I want to take my life (ie. getting drunk and firing off guns in the house, dying before 60 due to liver problems) even to a small degree.
I'm a pretty straight edge pro-American guy, would rather die than cheat on my wife and put I put family (and family values) first. Generally liberals hate people like me, and thats just fine. :thumbsup:
If you grow up hard like I did, after life knocks you around a little bit you see the light and become conservative (not saying you turn into a instant-republican, I'm saying you live more conservatively in general).
 

imported_hscorpio

Golden Member
Sep 1, 2004
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Originally posted by: housecat

I dont like the idea of creating another generally not positive industry like the pot industry would be, for the government to regulate.
It might bring in more money your way, but at what additional cost.
I'm not sure about it.. and as an aside, I dont think you could sell it to the American people on a whole either.

I know exactly where your coming from. The thing thats hard to see is that legalizing pot isn't going to suddenly open the flood gates to the pot market. The market is already established. Those who want to smoke pot already do so. Sure there would probably be a slight jump in use during the first year or two due to the novelty of being able to legally smoke pot, but after that useage rates will level out to probably around what they are now. Plus we will have the regulation advantage that we don't have with alcohol. There is a huge alcohol lobby that fights any new safety regulations or advertising regulations. With pot we can get off on the right foot in that regards.

I'm not saying you are wrong, you have as much of a chance as I do at being right on this one.
But I think we could take my step first, then yours 2nd after some more debate and agreement nationwide. I'm not dead opposed to what you are suggesting (highly regulated pot industry).. but my method also gives you at least a foot in the door in accomplishing the end goal that you so desire.

We'll technically I have history on my side:p (alcohol prohibition). Plus there is the dutch and other european countries experiences that favor my point somewhat.

With regards to the steps, we already have decrim in some states. The next step is national as you said and that requires pot to be rescheduled in the controled substances act. Groups have been trying to do this for years and even came close in the 80's I think.

 

housecat

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
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I, and many more undoubtably want more studies as well on the long term effects.

Thats part of my unwillingness to go full bore into it.

I'll give you this offer though, outlaw all abortion and legalize pot. :thumbsup:

I'd go for that anyday, save innocent lives.. while letting adults smoke pot freely from a regulated industry that produces jobs (that we can tax), and businesses (that we can tax), ect.

If we had a Delorean and a fluxcapacitor, I'd go back to the Row vs. Wade days and replace that ruling with one that would have created the legal marijauna market.. anyday of the week.

Thats just priorities though on my part. But I dont think someone such as yourself would disagree with that quick, easy and painless trade off? :)
I kinda like it alot.
 

imported_hscorpio

Golden Member
Sep 1, 2004
1,617
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Originally posted by: housecat
I, and many more undoubtably want more studies as well on the long term effects.

Thats part of my unwillingness to go full bore into it.

I'll give you this offer though, outlaw all abortion and legalize pot. :thumbsup:

I'd go for that anyday, save innocent lives.. while letting adults smoke pot freely from a regulated industry that produces jobs (that we can tax), and businesses (that we can tax), ect.

If we had a Delorean and a fluxcapacitor, I'd go back to the Row vs. Wade days and replace that ruling with one that would have created the legal marijauna market.. anyday of the week.

Thats just priorities though on my part. But I dont think someone such as yourself would disagree with that quick, easy and painless trade off? :)
I kinda like it alot.

Ok apparently all this talk of pot must have made you curious, but I think you might have smoked a little too much. :D
 

Zanix

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2003
5,568
12
81
Originally posted by: housecat
I, and many more undoubtably want more studies as well on the long term effects.

Thats part of my unwillingness to go full bore into it.

I'll give you this offer though, outlaw all abortion and legalize pot. :thumbsup:

I'd go for that anyday, save innocent lives.. while letting adults smoke pot freely from a regulated industry that produces jobs (that we can tax), and businesses (that we can tax), ect.

If we had a Delorean and a fluxcapacitor, I'd go back to the Row vs. Wade days and replace that ruling with one that would have created the legal marijauna market.. anyday of the week.

Thats just priorities though on my part. But I dont think someone such as yourself would disagree with that quick, easy and painless trade off? :)
I kinda like it alot.


Do you like the show Crossfire? or Hardball?
 

Tekime

Member
Jan 14, 2002
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Anybody wasting their time worrying about pot while hundreds of thousands of people die from alcohol needs to smoke a joint and get their priorities straight.
 

housecat

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
1,426
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Originally posted by: hscorpio
Originally posted by: housecat
I, and many more undoubtably want more studies as well on the long term effects.

Thats part of my unwillingness to go full bore into it.

I'll give you this offer though, outlaw all abortion and legalize pot. :thumbsup:

I'd go for that anyday, save innocent lives.. while letting adults smoke pot freely from a regulated industry that produces jobs (that we can tax), and businesses (that we can tax), ect.

If we had a Delorean and a fluxcapacitor, I'd go back to the Row vs. Wade days and replace that ruling with one that would have created the legal marijauna market.. anyday of the week.

Thats just priorities though on my part. But I dont think someone such as yourself would disagree with that quick, easy and painless trade off? :)
I kinda like it alot.

Ok apparently all this talk of pot must have made you curious, but I think you might have smoked a little too much. :D

Hey, you are going to have to make some sort of compromise to get something like legalized pot through.
Realistically, I think high fines and no jail for pot offenses is a LOT to ask for in the USA.

It'd be incredibly shocking if that even went through.
 

housecat

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
1,426
0
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Originally posted by: Zanix
Originally posted by: housecat
I, and many more undoubtably want more studies as well on the long term effects.

Thats part of my unwillingness to go full bore into it.

I'll give you this offer though, outlaw all abortion and legalize pot. :thumbsup:

I'd go for that anyday, save innocent lives.. while letting adults smoke pot freely from a regulated industry that produces jobs (that we can tax), and businesses (that we can tax), ect.

If we had a Delorean and a fluxcapacitor, I'd go back to the Row vs. Wade days and replace that ruling with one that would have created the legal marijauna market.. anyday of the week.

Thats just priorities though on my part. But I dont think someone such as yourself would disagree with that quick, easy and painless trade off? :)
I kinda like it alot.


Do you like the show Crossfire? or Hardball?

Pfft. You watch womens' shows.

O'REILLY biyatch! Lays it down like a OG.
 

QuitBanningMe

Banned
Mar 2, 2005
5,038
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I tried not to respond to the monthly pot thread because all of housecat's arguements have been dispelled in other threads with studies and history lessons but:

Pot is illegal not because it is harmful or has a negative effect on society (see study commisioned by Nixon) but because of political lobbying, racism, other economic concerns, and the the reluctance of a government to change its position.

Pot has no physical addiction and the "mental" addiction is not substantiated.

Most users are not the stereotypical hippies or potheads and contribute to socitey at least as much as nonsmokers.

There are more obvious and verifiable factors in the development of the criminal percentage of pot smokers.

Pot is no more a gateway drug than caffiene or sugar. One poster has already pointed out that a very small percentage of pot smokers ever use harder drugs.

Pot isn't really used to fill a void anymore than playing scrabble, wathching movies, skydiving, or walking around the block is. Many people simply find it enjoyable.