Post your vote fraud articles here!

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: conjur
The GOP here in Louisville is already under fire for planning to put challengers in many precincts in the West End of Louisville (poorest section of town.)

Hmmmm

CsG

 

[CaptnKirk]

Florida 2004 - Pre-Emptive Strikes

<CLIP>
Not a single ballot has been counted in the presidential election, yet Florida is already teeming with lawsuits charging the state and its county elections supervisors with voter disenfranchisement, a legal muddle likely to grow worse before Election Day.

On Wednesday, the State Supreme Court heard arguments in a lawsuit seeking to require election officials to count provisional ballots - which voters can cast when their names do not appear on precinct rolls - regardless of where they are cast. And on Tuesday, labor unions and voting-rights groups sued to stop the disqualification of more than 10,000 incomplete registration forms in Florida, accusing the state of overly restrictive rules that disproportionately hurt minority voters.

Also on Tuesday, plaintiffs in another suit met with aides to Secretary of State Glenda Hood to discuss how counties with touch-screen voting should conduct manual recounts. The state had banned recounts in such counties, but an administrative law judge, responding to a suit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union and other groups, threw out that rule in August.

"The 2000 election signaled the era of lawsuits in elections," said Susan MacManus, a political science professor at the University of South Florida, "and it's escalated markedly not just in Florida, but everywhere. Both parties are playing the pre-emption game as much as the reactive game this time out."

Alia Faraj, a spokeswoman for Ms. Hood, a Republican who was appointed by Gov. Jeb Bush, said the lawsuits were politically motivated and were eroding voter confidence.

"They are questioning every single law that we are following and that we are complying with, federal or state," Ms. Faraj said. "And I think it's inappropriate for them to be doing this at the 11th hour."

The lawsuit regarding voter registration forms, filed in federal court in Miami, stems from Ms. Hood's recent recommendation to throw out forms on which registrants did not check a box indicating they are American citizens, even if they signed an oath at the bottom of the form swearing that they are.

It charges that while some registrants fixed their incomplete forms before the Oct. 4 deadline, elections officials did not always process them in time, and did not let other registrants know their forms were flawed. It charges Ms. Hood and elections supervisors in Broward, Duval, Miami-Dade and Orange Counties with violating federal election law.

The plaintiff groups - including People for the American Way, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees and the A.F.L.-C.I.O. - all registered thousands of new Florida voters in recent months, often urging them to vote Democratic.

According to the complaint, more than a third of voters who indicated their race on the incomplete forms in Broward and Miami-Dade Counties are black, even though blacks make up only 17 percent of the electorate in Broward and 20 percent in Miami-Dade.

Though the citizenship issue was the first to cause concerns among voting-rights groups - and the subject of another lawsuit, filed by the Florida Democratic Party last week - far more registrants failed to check other boxes on the form, the suit filed Tuesday said. In Miami-Dade County, about 3,050 applicants did not check a box to indicate they were not convicted felons, while 3,550 did not check a box indicating they had not been found mentally incompetent, and were disqualified.

The plaintiffs maintain that checking the three boxes is not legally required. Some elections supervisors have said the incomplete forms came mostly from Democratic advocacy groups, which registered tens of thousands of new voters, turning in box upon box of forms at the last minute. Partly because of their efforts, many supervisors still have thousands of applications to process.

Advocacy groups say this backlog could become fodder for another lawsuit, though Allie Merzer, a spokeswoman for the Florida Democratic Party, urged patience.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: conjur
The GOP here in Louisville is already under fire for planning to put challengers in many precincts in the West End of Louisville (poorest section of town.)

Hmmmm

CsG

Uh...sorry, not the same thing.

This was an actual report on the local news that GOP challengers were going to be placed in the precincts in the poorer sections of town. This was about the same time as the local GOP office was handing out inflammatory bumper stickers calling John Kerry a communist.

 

[conjur]

Phony calls ask Ann Arbor voters to give up ballots
http://www.michigandaily.com/v...04/10/14/416e5688a416c

A statement released by the Ann Arbor City Clerk?s Office yesterday alerted citizens about fraudulent phone calls in which the caller asked the recipient for information on whether they were voting by absentee ballot.

The callers falsely claimed they represented the City Clerk?s Office or the Michigan State Election Committee, and asked for ballots to be returned to them.

The Ann Arbor Police Department received one complaint from a woman who received such a call and the clerk?s office received six or seven reports from residents who received the suspicious calls.

In the case reported to the AAPD, the caller asked the resident whether she had received an absentee ballot.

?The woman then asked the caller for her name and the (caller), who identified herself as being from the Michigan State Election Committee, refused to give her name. The woman asked her a couple more times and the caller hung up,? AAPD Sgt. Pat Ouellette said.

In one particular case, ?a caller may have suggested that the person send them an unused absentee ballot? according to the statement from the clerk?s office.

The mayor?s office was also alerted by several concerned voters who had received such calls.

?We?re going to do our best to inform the public about this so they can protect themselves,? Ann Arbor Mayor John Hieftje said.

The AAPD said it doesn?t know who is behind the calls.

?We have no idea who might be making these phone calls, we?re asking anyone who has any information or has received a similar phone call to contact us,? Ouellette said.

Residents with any information can call the AAPD?s anonymous tip line at 996-3199.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: conjur
The GOP here in Louisville is already under fire for planning to put challengers in many precincts in the West End of Louisville (poorest section of town.)

Hmmmm

CsG

Uh...sorry, not the same thing.

This was an actual report on the local news that GOP challengers were going to be placed in the precincts in the poorer sections of town. This was about the same time as the local GOP office was handing out inflammatory bumper stickers calling John Kerry a communist.

Uh...sorry, it is the same thing. Ah yes, I wonder why this was a report. Who did they have in this "report". What does the handbook say? Oh that's right...
Keep spinning and spreading BS conjur...

CsG

 

[Jhhnn]

From CsG-

Sure, don't mind we already have how many cases of unions and others storming campaign HQs, intimidating the workers and just generally causing a mess and disturbance?

You really need to link up such allegations in order to maintain some slight semblance of credibility...

And, uhh, how would that compare to the Republican led hooligans who stopped Florida recounts in 2000?

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: conjur
The GOP here in Louisville is already under fire for planning to put challengers in many precincts in the West End of Louisville (poorest section of town.)

Hmmmm

CsG

I really question the credibility of that. How do we know this is not a fake manual trumped up and put out as a spoof?

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: gutharius
That seems really extreme. Voting is a right and should stay a right no matter what. To you question to my knowledge this is something that has happened off and on during american politics. But it is especially so during tight races where every vote is so much more important. It is elections like these that squeeze the corruption out of the system by exposing the cracks in the foundation so we cna fix them until the next tight race comes along.

I linked it to taxes for a reason. If you're not willing to pay for government, then do you deserve representation? If you don't pay taxes (or at least file), then you're a criminal. Do people in jail get to vote? I honestly don't know.

 

[gutharius]

You are an american citizen, the right to vote is a birth right not a right that is given then taken away as we choose. Anything else would lead to a society that denies someone the right to vote based purely on their own whim.

As for convicts and the right to vote depending on the state law some can and some can not. There is a movment to allow convicts to vote nationally.

As far as "not willing" to pay taxes, what about those who just can't plain afford to pay taxes and are struggling to get by. When having enough to eat each day is a life or death struggle for many in America and paying taxes is the last thing on their mind, I have to say your proposal would take those Americans who are not as fortunate as you and relegate them to an even worse situation. A situation where no one looks at them or pays attention to their problems or their needs. Such a society would eventually end up voiceless and impoverished.

 

[daclayman]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Florida 2004 - Pre-Emptive Strikes

.......Though the citizenship issue was the first to cause concerns among voting-rights groups - and the subject of another lawsuit, filed by the Florida Democratic Party last week - far more registrants failed to check other boxes on the form, the suit filed Tuesday said. In Miami-Dade County, about 3,050 applicants did not check a box to indicate they were not convicted felons, while 3,550 did not check a box indicating they had not been found mentally incompetent, and were disqualified.

The plaintiffs maintain that checking the three boxes is not legally required. Some elections supervisors have said the incomplete forms came mostly from Democratic advocacy groups, which registered tens of thousands of new voters, turning in box upon box of forms at the last minute. Partly because of their efforts, many supervisors still have thousands of applications to process.

Advocacy groups say this backlog could become fodder for another lawsuit, though Allie Merzer, a spokeswoman for the Florida Democratic Party, urged patience.

Wow, what a hoop-jumping session just to register to vote. So if I don't check a box, that means I mentally incompetent? I can see a box for American citizenship, but from that question on down, I'm pretty sure I should be entitled to vote, no?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
From CsG-

Sure, don't mind we already have how many cases of unions and others storming campaign HQs, intimidating the workers and just generally causing a mess and disturbance?

You really need to link up such allegations in order to maintain some slight semblance of credibility...

And, uhh, how would that compare to the Republican led hooligans who stopped Florida recounts in 2000?

It's already been posted - Take your pick.

Oh, and my credibility is quite in tact Thank you very much but your half-assed attempt at attacking me seem to have failed miserably

CsG

 

[Jhhnn]

Not exactly, CsG- Just because Repubs in a couple of locations managed to turn the overtime cutoff protest into something it was never intended to be doesn't mean that it didn't go as planned in most places. The protests and deliveries of the postcards were announced in advance, and most Republican HQ's had the common sense and courtesy to plan for it, accept the postcards on behalf of Bush, put up with some sign waving and chanting outside the doors, go about their business.

Nor is that intended to justify the behavior of those particular groups of protesters, at all, just a reminder that it generally takes two to tango...

BTW, your allegation isn't exactly on topic, either... having nothing to do with vote fraud per se.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: gutharius
You are an american citizen, the right to vote is a birth right not a right that is given then taken away as we choose. Anything else would lead to a society that denies someone the right to vote based purely on their own whim.

As for convicts and the right to vote depending on the state law some can and some can not. There is a movment to allow convicts to vote nationally.

As far as "not willing" to pay taxes, what about those who just can't plain afford to pay taxes and are struggling to get by. When having enough to eat each day is a life or death struggle for many in America and paying taxes is the last thing on their mind, I have to say your proposal would take those Americans who are not as fortunate as you and relegate them to an even worse situation. A situation where no one looks at them or pays attention to their problems or their needs. Such a society would eventually end up voiceless and impoverished.

44% of the country didn't pay a dime in taxes last year. I'm not suggesting taking away the right to vote of these people simply because they can't afford to pay taxes. If you file taxes, then you'd be eligible. I mentioned this sort of in passing in my previous post.

If people in jail can vote, then tax criminals should be allowed to as well I suppose. Just a suggestion, and not a very well thought-out one, admittedly. I see a need for reform, though I don't know the best vehicle for that reform.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Not exactly, CsG- Just because Repubs in a couple of locations managed to turn the overtime cutoff protest into something it was never intended to be doesn't mean that it didn't go as planned in most places. The protests and deliveries of the postcards were announced in advance, and most Republican HQ's had the common sense and courtesy to plan for it, accept the postcards on behalf of Bush, put up with some sign waving and chanting outside the doors, go about their business.

Nor is that intended to justify the behavior of those particular groups of protesters, at all, just a reminder that it generally takes two to tango...

BTW, your allegation isn't exactly on topic, either... having nothing to do with vote fraud per se.

Yes exactly, Jhhnn. It doesn't matter if it was "planned"(ie admitted to) - it happened, which is what I said.

Yeah, some locations dealt with it in the common sense manner. Instead of allowing people to storm their facility and disrupt business and general make a mess out of things - some locked the door. Some places weren't quick enough or were in locations that weren't easy to close up quickly - that was unfortunate. One quick deadbolt did the trick here

Oh and it wasn't the "Repubs" who turned it into something it wasn't "intended" to be - it was the Unions who turned it into more than a peaceful card drop off.

Sorry, for linking the proof you wanted because you were so concerned about my credibility.

CsG

 

[Jhhnn]

Oh, yeh, more info about the Nevada scenario-

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sun.../oct/14/517665814.html

Sniff test, anybody?

 

[wiin]

DISPUTE OVER MILWAUKEE BALLOTS

The City of Milwaukee asked for 938,300 ballots for the November 2004 election
The Milwaukee County Election Commission proposed giving the city 574,105, but then increased that amount to a total of 679,500.

The total population in Milwaukee: 596,974 in 2000 and 593,920 in 2004
The total number of people who are of legal voting age in Milwaukee in 2004: 423,811

Total votes cast in 2000 fall election: 245,670
Total votes cast in 2002 fall election: 141,351 (pre-registration of 335,889)

Total votes case in 2004 September election: 94,643 (total ballots requested by City of Milwaukee: 841,357)
Total number of pre-registered voters as of the September 2004 election: 382,737


There are 314 wards in the City of Milwaukee. The county provided 679,500 ballots to the City of Milwaukee. That is 2,164 ballots per ward.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: wiin
DISPUTE OVER MILWAUKEE BALLOTS

The City of Milwaukee asked for 938,300 ballots for the November 2004 election
The Milwaukee County Election Commission proposed giving the city 574,105, but then increased that amount to a total of 679,500.

The total population in Milwaukee: 596,974 in 2000 and 593,920 in 2004
The total number of people who are of legal voting age in Milwaukee in 2004: 423,811

Total votes cast in 2000 fall election: 245,670
Total votes cast in 2002 fall election: 141,351 (pre-registration of 335,889)

Total votes case in 2004 September election: 94,643 (total ballots requested by City of Milwaukee: 841,357)
Total number of pre-registered voters as of the September 2004 election: 382,737


There are 314 wards in the City of Milwaukee. The county provided 679,500 ballots to the City of Milwaukee. That is 2,164 ballots per ward.

What does this have to do with fraud? Why would the city only request the exact number of ballots as registered voters? What if someone made a mistake and wanted another ballot? They'd be screwed.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: conjur
I've a feeling unless we see a decided victory toward Kerry or to Bush, the mess of 2000 will seem like a slight disagreement.

I agree, completely. If the numbers are close and Kerry wins, the R's will not bow down like Gore did, they'll fight, kick, and scream, anything to delay the removement of Bush from office.

However, if the numbers are close, and Bush wins, I think we'll see worse. Much worse. Mass rioting at the very minimum.

Too bad this race is close as hell. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I imagine they are closer than the 2000 election.

We can point the fingers at our two parties, but in the end it's the publics' fault. We have given up our power and rights and we allow this crap to happen. We allow politicians to get away with breaking the law, and at times, much, much worse. We give them an inch, and they take a mile.

 

[wiin]

DNC/KERRY BALLOT COLLECTION CALLED 'UNLAWFUL'

 

[conjur]

Kerry left off some absentee ballots (Hamilton County, OH)
http://www.cincypost.com/2004/10/18/absen101804.html

Some absentee ballots distributed to Hamilton County voters do not include the name of Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry, local election officials confirmed today.
Because of a printing error -- limited, election officials believe, to only a few ballots in the Forest Park area -- absentee ballots recently mailed out exclude the Democratic presidential ticket of Kerry and his running mate, Sen. John Edwards.

"It's a screw-up," said Tim Burke, chairman of the Hamilton County Board of Elections. "This just feeds the paranoia that's out there. The tragic thing is that even though I think we will have a very fair and accurate count here, this will cause people to question the accuracy of our operation."

http://www.cincypost.com/news/.../largeballot101804.jpg

 

[lordtyranus]

I agree, completely. If the numbers are close and Kerry wins, the R's will not bow down like Gore did, they'll fight, kick, and scream, anything to delay the removement of Bush from office.

Gore didn't bow down at all.

 

[conjur]

California Pollworkers Told to Withhold Information from Voters
http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2004_10.php#002010

Santa Clara County, CA - Pollworkers in Santa Clara County are being trained not to offer voters a chance to use paper ballots instead of electronic voting machines, the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) has learned. California Secretary of State Kevin Shelley mandated in May that all polling places offer a paper ballot option, which would allow people concerned about e-voting machine reliability a chance to vote on paper ballots at the polls. But pollworkers in Santa Clara County are being instructed not to tell voters that this option is available. Instead, they will make paper ballots available only if voters specifically request them.

Ed Cherlin, a pollworker being trained in Santa Clara County, said he was very disturbed to learn that he was not supposed to mention the paper option. "I object to the government telling me that I can't tell people about their rights," he said. Representatives of the voting commissions in Orange County and Riverside confirm that they also will not be informing voters about the paper option at the polls. There are ten counties in California using paperless e-voting machines known as DREs. It is not clear at this time whether all ten are adopting similar policies.

"When poll workers don't inform people about their options at the voting booth, they go against the spirit of the Secretary of State's mandate," said EFF staff attorney Matt Zimmerman. "More importantly, they undermine people's trust in the voting process."

 

[wiin]

Soros-supported voter-registration drive probed

He would do anything to unseat the President Bush.

 

[conjur]

Election chief warns of absentee scam
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10...ion_chief_warns_.shtml

Pasco elections officials have a warning for the county's absentee voters: Don't give your ballot to a stranger claiming to be from the elections office.

They're not who they say they are.

"The people who are soliciting your ballots in this manner are not elections officials," Pasco Elections Supervisor Kurt Browning warned Thursday.

The warning came after a phone call from a west Pasco woman. Other Florida counties have gotten similar complaints.

"We've had a bunch of them - 100 at least," said Bob Sweat, elections supervisor for Manatee County. "It's probably going on all over the state of Florida."

The Pasco woman said someone came to her home to collect her absentee ballot earlier this week. She said she was led to believe they were from the elections office. The woman told the strangers she hadn't completed the ballot, but they took it anyway.

The deception is the latest sign of the lengths to which some partisans appear ready to go in this election. Elections officials worry there will be many more complaints of overly aggressive behavior in attempts to affect the outcome of the presidential race.

Browning's office had not yet received the woman's absentee ballot Thursday. Given the circumstances, Browning arranged to send her another.

Other counties have had numerous complaints about similar misrepresentations.

"We've had a few people with those complaints - I'd say less than 10," said Dan Nolan, chief of staff for Hillsborough Supervisor of Elections Buddy Johnson. Johnson said he routinely advises voters to send their absentee ballots in via mail, or to bring it directly to his office.

In Manatee, there have been numerous complaints, and the Sheriff's Office is investigating.

Manatee Elections Supervisor Sweat said the people collecting the ballots appeared to know exactly who had absentee ballots. It is possible for political parties, candidates and political groups to get lists of voters who request the absentee ballots.

Sweat said it appeared the collections were occurring in neighborhoods full of low-income, minority and elderly residents.

Several political-oriented groups are working hard to get their supporters to vote early, either through absentee ballots or early voting. It is legal for them to collect absentee ballots and turn them in to an elections office, so long as they don't misrepresent themselves or alter the ballots.

In his warning, Browning said, "I need to make it very clear that my office will never show up at your place of residence to collect your absentee ballot."

Because the presidential race is so close in Florida and its 27 electoral votes could decide who will take the White House, political groups are aggressively working to get their supporters to vote. Many say, though, that they are keeping their hands off the actual ballots.

A representative from the group Americans Coming Together said Thursday that they urge people to request absentee ballots, then collect the request cards and turn them in to elections officials. They have turned in thousands of requests in the Tampa Bay area. However, ACT stays away from the actual ballots, according to Tait Sye, state communications director for ACT, a Democratic voter mobilization group.

"We have turned in thousands of request cards for Pasco," Sye said. "But we are not collecting the absentee ballots, period."

Interesting. Now, who would be interested in fraudulently posing as being from the elections office and taking ballots from low-income and minority voters?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: conjur
Election chief warns of absentee scam
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/10...ion_chief_warns_.shtml

Pasco elections officials have a warning for the county's absentee voters: Don't give your ballot to a stranger claiming to be from the elections office.

They're not who they say they are.

"The people who are soliciting your ballots in this manner are not elections officials," Pasco Elections Supervisor Kurt Browning warned Thursday.

The warning came after a phone call from a west Pasco woman. Other Florida counties have gotten similar complaints.

"We've had a bunch of them - 100 at least," said Bob Sweat, elections supervisor for Manatee County. "It's probably going on all over the state of Florida."

The Pasco woman said someone came to her home to collect her absentee ballot earlier this week. She said she was led to believe they were from the elections office. The woman told the strangers she hadn't completed the ballot, but they took it anyway.

The deception is the latest sign of the lengths to which some partisans appear ready to go in this election. Elections officials worry there will be many more complaints of overly aggressive behavior in attempts to affect the outcome of the presidential race.

Browning's office had not yet received the woman's absentee ballot Thursday. Given the circumstances, Browning arranged to send her another.

Other counties have had numerous complaints about similar misrepresentations.

"We've had a few people with those complaints - I'd say less than 10," said Dan Nolan, chief of staff for Hillsborough Supervisor of Elections Buddy Johnson. Johnson said he routinely advises voters to send their absentee ballots in via mail, or to bring it directly to his office.

In Manatee, there have been numerous complaints, and the Sheriff's Office is investigating.

Manatee Elections Supervisor Sweat said the people collecting the ballots appeared to know exactly who had absentee ballots. It is possible for political parties, candidates and political groups to get lists of voters who request the absentee ballots.

Sweat said it appeared the collections were occurring in neighborhoods full of low-income, minority and elderly residents.

Several political-oriented groups are working hard to get their supporters to vote early, either through absentee ballots or early voting. It is legal for them to collect absentee ballots and turn them in to an elections office, so long as they don't misrepresent themselves or alter the ballots.

In his warning, Browning said, "I need to make it very clear that my office will never show up at your place of residence to collect your absentee ballot."

Because the presidential race is so close in Florida and its 27 electoral votes could decide who will take the White House, political groups are aggressively working to get their supporters to vote. Many say, though, that they are keeping their hands off the actual ballots.

A representative from the group Americans Coming Together said Thursday that they urge people to request absentee ballots, then collect the request cards and turn them in to elections officials. They have turned in thousands of requests in the Tampa Bay area. However, ACT stays away from the actual ballots, according to Tait Sye, state communications director for ACT, a Democratic voter mobilization group.

"We have turned in thousands of request cards for Pasco," Sye said. "But we are not collecting the absentee ballots, period."

Interesting. Now, who would be interested in fraudulently posing as being from the elections office and taking ballots from low-income and minority voters?

ACT? They seem to be in a bit of trouble around here. News reports last night reported that members of the group ACT(America Coming Together) were going door to door and in some cases harrassing and intimidating people.
I can't find the link but it was on the 5,6, and10pm news on whoTV here in Des Moines.

CsG