PowerEngineer
Diamond Member
- Oct 22, 2001
- 3,607
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Really?The only ante being upped yet again are the unsubstantiated claims of the supposed inventors!
Have you noticed that they are backing away from actually building these devices themselves? Seems they'd rather have you buy a license to build and sell their "products". Good luck getting your 40.5M euros back when those products fall well short of your expectations.
Or better yet, you can just send them R&D money!
There's got to be warning bells ringing in your head by now. If not, I want to warn you not be read any e-mails from Nigeria involving bank transactions!
sdifox
No Lifer
- Sep 30, 2005
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- Mar 25, 2001
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It's me again...
Another Italian LENR development. Has nothing to do with either Rossi or Defkalion.
Summary here:
http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/04/p...l-hydrogen-lenr-research-data-in-siena-italy/
Abstract Here:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6id5Hf-xMWOYXVjekJCN1ZkQk0/edit?pli=1
Another Italian LENR development. Has nothing to do with either Rossi or Defkalion.
Summary here:
http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/04/p...l-hydrogen-lenr-research-data-in-siena-italy/
Abstract Here:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6id5Hf-xMWOYXVjekJCN1ZkQk0/edit?pli=1
StinkyPinky
Diamond Member
- Jul 6, 2002
- 6,985
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- Mar 25, 2001
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This threat has nothing to do with perpetual motion machine. A LENR is a low intensity process that does require fuel.
When it becomes a public and the results are repeatable by other scientists then we will believe it.
- Mar 25, 2001
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Its me again with an update:
New Interview with Andrea Rossi. It is a long interview.
http://youtu.be/Ub75CoKCe9o
And also, it seems that some aspects of the LENR process are easy enough to replicate, even on a level of a high school physics.
http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/04/e...-build-instructions-for-pirelli-athanor-cell/
New Interview with Andrea Rossi. It is a long interview.
http://youtu.be/Ub75CoKCe9o
And also, it seems that some aspects of the LENR process are easy enough to replicate, even on a level of a high school physics.
http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/04/e...-build-instructions-for-pirelli-athanor-cell/
William Gaatjes
Lifer
- May 11, 2008
- 22,670
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Do you have more detailed information now ?
Because i can understand that under conditions, an impurity (an atom of another element) can migrate through a material made of another element or several elements. This might cause some energy to be absorbed and released.
There may very well be some catalytic reactions going on.
When i have time i will read. But once again, i am not a chemical expert. I know some small bits because it interests me. But i have no formal education in chemistry. I do am interested, just ofr the sake of understanding.
Because i can understand that under conditions, an impurity (an atom of another element) can migrate through a material made of another element or several elements. This might cause some energy to be absorbed and released.
There may very well be some catalytic reactions going on.
When i have time i will read. But once again, i am not a chemical expert. I know some small bits because it interests me. But i have no formal education in chemistry. I do am interested, just ofr the sake of understanding.
sdifox
No Lifer
- Sep 30, 2005
- 100,692
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Murloc
Diamond Member
- Jun 24, 2008
- 5,382
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apparently he has been working with a professor named Sergio Focardi (it's written in the description of that video).
That's not some random mechanic guy who claims miracolous engine efficency for cheap violating all laws of thermodynamics.
My physics book is written by Focardi, and he's a real scientist.
I still won't believe any of this until it's indipendently tested though.
That's not some random mechanic guy who claims miracolous engine efficency for cheap violating all laws of thermodynamics.
My physics book is written by Focardi, and he's a real scientist.
I still won't believe any of this until it's indipendently tested though.
William Gaatjes
Lifer
- May 11, 2008
- 22,670
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I have not fully read it. But that indeed seems to be the case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion
- Mar 25, 2001
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William,
I am not an expert in this field, so I'd suggest you ask him a question directly. Mr. Rossi responds directly to inquires here:
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=619&cpage=1#comment-224773
One of the interesting papers to read:
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=497&cpage=1
and
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=66
(This is a patent application)
Please always read comment section as it always contains additional information.
One more important development. Defkalion - Greek company who has stolen the technology from Mr. Rossi is hiring
http://www.defkalion-energy.com/jobs
- Mar 25, 2001
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Here is MR. Focardi speaking. I'd call it a quite strong of an endorsement.
http://youtu.be/gHFHyVkj6nA
and here it is xTED talk:
http://youtu.be/eGmgTo2Kw1U
The guy is hardly an unbiased source. His name being on a textbook doesn't mean much either. If you check up on this, you'll see they've still yet to in any way provide evidence for their extraordinary claims. The copper which he cites as proof might be the most damning aspect (see the link I provided earlier about why their copper claims are so sketchy).
No, it is not, as was repeatedly pointed out to you before. If I hadn't had to deal with your garbage before I'd wonder why you're trying to pass this off as some new legitimate endorsement. He didn't provide anything new, its not like he just now got involved and proved it as he's been involved in this for a long time and its the same people (him and Rossi) making the same claims that they have still not proven or let anyone else that knows this stuff check out.
That video is basically a marketing presentation for the e-Cat in the guise of a scientific talk. He just says the simple aspects of what's been done by them and does nothing to legitimize any of it. Besides, TED talks, while generally interesting, are hardly some absolute scientific backing, and definitely not independent ones that are handled entirely by the people putting them on.
His safety spiel at the end is hilarious and a clear move to refute Defkalion's claims that Rossi's setup isn't safe.
- Mar 25, 2001
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Sure, anyone can just write a college level physics book. Just look at darkswordsman17 - he wrote 50 of them.
http://youtu.be/xzJOxzH4ByE -> darkswordsman17 is that you?
The evidence that I have provided should at least allow you to start doing an independent research about this and draw your own conclusions rather than just keep saying garbage this or garbage that.
Also, you have your time frame wrong. These videos were made way BEFORE the defkalion has entered the picture...
Also LoL self ownage with your last sentence...
Funny that YOU are bringing the Defkalion up to the conversation. We were doing some "independent reading on my garbage links" didn't we? It is quite of an upgrade actually, because you were dismissing all of my material as a garbage just a paragraph ago - Rossi's or Defkalion's . And now you have changed you tune and say:
"well, but..but...but these Defkalion guys said that Rossi's setup is not safe".
O really? so now you like Defkalion and bring them up to a conversation - even though their process is a stolen tech from Rossi? Its basically all the same. If you quote one, you must accept another. Or maybe...Maybe you can enlighten us and explain why do you think that Defkalion cold fusion/LENR process is safer? Be my guest. I am all ears.
And people - please quit saying that "an independent" validation of the result is needed...It is not true and it is not going to happen.
Poor Fleischmann–Pons were trying that "independent validation" route and look what happened. They got totally discredited and LENR got shelved for 20 years - because of few troll scientists with a hidden agenda. In case of LENR the regular "peer review" process has failed and it should NOT be used.
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How many months have this been going on now? I thought Rossi had this machine done and he was scaling up MONTHS ago. And we are still sitting here 6 months later with zero evidence or independent verification. What is the hold up? What are those birdies saying? Oh I hear it, they are saying "Run, run run away, it is a scam".
Rossi either needs to put or shutup. But he won't do that because he is trying to pull off a scam.
Rossi either needs to put or shutup. But he won't do that because he is trying to pull off a scam.
sdifox
No Lifer
- Sep 30, 2005
- 100,692
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- Mar 25, 2001
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That's right,
I am taking all Ecats and building a LENR powered spaceship to mine all metal asteroid worth 50 trillion dollars.
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sdifox
No Lifer
- Sep 30, 2005
- 100,692
- 18,029
- 126
Sure, anyone can just write a college level physics book. Just look at darkswordsman17 - he wrote 50 of them.
http://youtu.be/xzJOxzH4ByE -> darkswordsman17 is that you?
The evidence that I have provided should at least allow you to start doing an independent research about this and draw your own conclusions rather than just keep saying garbage this or garbage that.
Also, you have your time frame wrong. These videos were made way BEFORE the defkalion has entered the picture...
Also LoL self ownage with your last sentence...
Funny that YOU are bringing the Defkalion up to the conversation. We were doing some "independent reading on my garbage links" didn't we? It is quite of an upgrade actually, because you were dismissing all of my material as a garbage just a paragraph ago - Rossi's or Defkalion's . And now you have changed you tune and say:
"well, but..but...but these Defkalion guys said that Rossi's setup is not safe".
O really? so now you like Defkalion and bring them up to a conversation - even though their process is a stolen tech from Rossi? Its basically all the same. If you quote one, you must accept another. Or maybe...Maybe you can enlighten us and explain why do you think that Defkalion cold fusion/LENR process is safer? Be my guest. I am all ears.
And people - please quit saying that "an independent" validation of the result is needed...It is not true and it is not going to happen.
Poor FleischmannPons were trying that "independent validation" route and look what happened. They got totally discredited and LENR got shelved for 20 years - because of few troll scientists with a hidden agenda. In case of LENR the regular "peer review" process has failed and it should NOT be used.
The TED talk was what, October? Defkalion was involved before that, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
This was taken from a link you provided in this thread where Defkalion was talking about how they had been working with Rossi before that. So by all means explain how Defkalion wasn't in the picture prior to October. I was wrong (oh my, yes it is in fact possible to admit that you're wrong, you should try it sometime) that it was in response to Defkalion's safety claims, but the claims he himself made are dubious at best (why don't you bother to actually read the link I posted that explains why).
I'm not even going to address you twisting the rest of that post. Do you make it a habit to ignore things that disagree with you? What am I saying of course you do, you've proven it time and time again in this thread.
No shit independent verification isn't gonna happen. I guess you missed where people have been saying this the entire time?
Wow, you really do not understand scientific investigation at all. I mean, most of us knew you didn't from the start, but damn. Troll scientists because they weren't able to verify their results in other labs?
PowerEngineer
Diamond Member
- Oct 22, 2001
- 3,607
- 787
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Posting just to show that I'm still waiting for any real news on LENR or the E-Cat product delivery dates from Rossi.
The links that you have provided are poor evidence. Some of us have actually viewed/read some of your linked material and we have drawn our own conclusions. The word "garbage" while a bit uncharitable isn't far from the mark.
So you're "updating" this thread with old videos? A little self ownage inherent in that as well
Really? Let's use those little gray cells between your ears. It is silly to claim that anyone who has read your linked material is somehow prohibited from concluding that it is garbage. In fact, I'll assert that it makes more sense to reach a conclusion after reading than before reading.
In mentioning Defkalion, DarkSwordMan is making fun of the infighting between Rossi and Defkalion over the supposed differences in their LENR products. Rossi suggested that stability problems were among the reasons for the delays in finalizing the E-Cat products, Defkalion was happy to claim that their products had no such problems, and now Rossi is trying to take the stability issue away from Defkalion. Commenting on the battle of the sales pitches over their unproven products is far from an endorsement of either.
"If you quote one, you must accept the other." is just absurd. And you can quote me on that.
Well, you're half right: it is true and it is not going to happen.
I was already thinking that your Rossi defense was taking on the shrillness of desperation. I hadn't realized, however, that you had reached the point where you'd grasp at a conspiracy theory involving those "troll scientists with a hidden agenda". I think you just "jumped the shark".
Thankfully July and the promised Defkalion products are coming soon. I can hardly wait for the update...
The links that you have provided are poor evidence. Some of us have actually viewed/read some of your linked material and we have drawn our own conclusions. The word "garbage" while a bit uncharitable isn't far from the mark.
So you're "updating" this thread with old videos? A little self ownage inherent in that as well
Really? Let's use those little gray cells between your ears. It is silly to claim that anyone who has read your linked material is somehow prohibited from concluding that it is garbage. In fact, I'll assert that it makes more sense to reach a conclusion after reading than before reading.
In mentioning Defkalion, DarkSwordMan is making fun of the infighting between Rossi and Defkalion over the supposed differences in their LENR products. Rossi suggested that stability problems were among the reasons for the delays in finalizing the E-Cat products, Defkalion was happy to claim that their products had no such problems, and now Rossi is trying to take the stability issue away from Defkalion. Commenting on the battle of the sales pitches over their unproven products is far from an endorsement of either.
"If you quote one, you must accept the other." is just absurd. And you can quote me on that.
Well, you're half right: it is true and it is not going to happen.
I was already thinking that your Rossi defense was taking on the shrillness of desperation. I hadn't realized, however, that you had reached the point where you'd grasp at a conspiracy theory involving those "troll scientists with a hidden agenda". I think you just "jumped the shark".
Thankfully July and the promised Defkalion products are coming soon. I can hardly wait for the update...
Yes, exactly. I thought it was hilarious when Defkalion basically painted Rossi's stuff as unsafe after they had that issue (melted something). They also openly admitted they don't even know what is going on inside their system, but they're saying theirs is so much safer than Rossi's? Of course they claim they have safety systems that will shutdown the reaction whereas Rossi doesn't.
Likewise to him talking about safety at the end of the Ted talk video. He acts like he was so concerned, but they went through those early experiments without the shielding (he says they added lead sheeting later)? Seriously, they think they have a nuclear reaction and they have it contained in some pipes and rubber hoses?
Plus if you read that link I posted, you'll see he writes about the radiation and how the "shielding" shown on Rossi's stuff would not hold up to even the radiation he mentions. It also touches on the copper "proof" and how they can rig it to produce heat after its supposedly turned off (big surprise, it wouldn't take much).
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