If it's not too personal to share, what aspects of your childhood troubled you? A lot of sexual identity crisises can be tracked back to that. A lot of folks that grow up without a strong father figure who models a healthy relationship with the mother are prone to various deviations of similar sorts.
ffmcobalt, if you truly think it is a choice you make, I wonder whether you aren't gay or at least bi-sexual yourself.
I am straight, and have never ever felt anything for men. Even the thought alone of having a sexual relationship with a man disgusts me. I never had to make a choice, I just always felt attracted to women and not to men.
If you had to choose against it, apparently you did have feelings you had to suppress. I feel sorry for you in a way.
And I pity shrinertech, for I know I couldn't switch my sexual preference if my life depended on it.
I am straight, and have never ever felt anything for men. Even the thought alone of having a sexual relationship with a man disgusts me. I never had to make a choice, I just always felt attracted to women and not to men.
If you had to choose against it, apparently you did have feelings you had to suppress. I feel sorry for you in a way.
And I pity shrinertech, for I know I couldn't switch my sexual preference if my life depended on it.
flavio
Diamond Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 6,823
- 1
- 76
Wonderful points. The fact is ffmcobalt has said that he has homosexuals in his immediate family. I think the reason that he feels so strongly that it must be a choice thing is that he is petrified by the thought that he might share the "gay gene" with these family members. So if he convinces himself it is a matter of choice then he's still "safe".
Makes sense huh?
Kadarin
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2001
- 44,296
- 16
- 81
Interesting thread..
To those folks advocating that shrinertech needs merely to look at some heterosexual porn to magically change his orientation, I'd like to ask whether you think looking at a sufficient quantity of gay male porn would eventually turn you on? Being gay is not about simply having sex with someone of the same sex (as women often do when they've had too much alcohol), it's an orientation; it's about what characteristics in others turn you on and inspire a physical and psychological response.
I'll give you a personal example: I'm a male who has had sex with men, women, and even a transsexual, but I am completely heterosexual. It was a conscious choice for me to involve myself with the sexual partners that I have had, but it's not a choice for me to be oriented towards being attracted to women; that is something you simply can't help.
Being gay isn't the problem here; it's the fact that shrinertech has been conditioned somehow to believe that it's wrong for him to be oriented the way he is. Getting to the bottom of those feelings of guilt and shame will go a long way towards fixing the ostracism, because if you're truly happy with who you are, that will show in your relations with others.
To those folks advocating that shrinertech needs merely to look at some heterosexual porn to magically change his orientation, I'd like to ask whether you think looking at a sufficient quantity of gay male porn would eventually turn you on? Being gay is not about simply having sex with someone of the same sex (as women often do when they've had too much alcohol), it's an orientation; it's about what characteristics in others turn you on and inspire a physical and psychological response.
I'll give you a personal example: I'm a male who has had sex with men, women, and even a transsexual, but I am completely heterosexual. It was a conscious choice for me to involve myself with the sexual partners that I have had, but it's not a choice for me to be oriented towards being attracted to women; that is something you simply can't help.
Being gay isn't the problem here; it's the fact that shrinertech has been conditioned somehow to believe that it's wrong for him to be oriented the way he is. Getting to the bottom of those feelings of guilt and shame will go a long way towards fixing the ostracism, because if you're truly happy with who you are, that will show in your relations with others.
I haven't read everything here, but I'll respond to the first post.
Yes, you were born that way. And, no you cannot simply CHOOSE to change yourself. You cannot simply shut off your desires like a spicket. But, your desires are your desires, and we cannot say that it's anyone elses fault (including God's).
But contrary to most, I would say that it is a problem, and that ONLY by a free gift from God can you rid yourself of it.
Example: I completely desire to look at beautiful women in a way that is obviously wrong. It's degrading and depraved. However, I don't ever remember choosing to be like this, it is just simply something I have always wanted to do. You could say I was born this way. The only way my desires can be changed is by God's choice. If, by unmerrited grace, he chooses to rid me of this, he will. But make no mistake, we cannot change our desires.
Yes, you were born that way. And, no you cannot simply CHOOSE to change yourself. You cannot simply shut off your desires like a spicket. But, your desires are your desires, and we cannot say that it's anyone elses fault (including God's).
But contrary to most, I would say that it is a problem, and that ONLY by a free gift from God can you rid yourself of it.
Example: I completely desire to look at beautiful women in a way that is obviously wrong. It's degrading and depraved. However, I don't ever remember choosing to be like this, it is just simply something I have always wanted to do. You could say I was born this way. The only way my desires can be changed is by God's choice. If, by unmerrited grace, he chooses to rid me of this, he will. But make no mistake, we cannot change our desires.
My theory is that every human on this planet has a drive to have sex with every other sexable thing on this planet (male, female, canine, equestrian), and the choice to be exclusive is based on the indoctrination that you've accepted as your own. In terms of what is scientifically, psychologically, and socially PRODUCTIVE, heterosexual monogamy is the way to go. It's been that way for a long long time. So yes, the choice to be exclusively gay is a reversible choice on some level, whether conscious or unconscious, and so is a choice to be heterosexual.
What's wrong with being gay? I'm straight as an arrow, but gay men don't bother me in the slightest.
You could always move to San Fran or NYC. Both of those places have large accepted Gay communities. Perhaps you would not feel alone then.
You could always move to San Fran or NYC. Both of those places have large accepted Gay communities. Perhaps you would not feel alone then.
- Jun 7, 2000
- 9,099
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Columbus has a rather large accepted gay community, but there are always those people that hate us. I also work for the school I attend, so I get to see quite the mix of people, from down town city people to country hicks. The former generally don't care, the latter are ready to kill when they hear about me.
Andrew
Andrew
A gay writer and activist was doing a radio interview about his book on life in the pre-AIDS bathouses, where gay men would have numerous sexual encounters per night. When asked about whether the desire for multiple sexual experiences is characteristic of gay men in general, the author shot back that it is characteristic of all male sexuality, but that straight men are usually constrained by female sexuality. If, he continued, we really want to see what male sexuality is like, uninfluenced by female sexuality, we just need to look at gay men.
The Taoist understands that this characteristic of male sexuality in terms of the properties of masculine energy, or yang. Yang is active, volatile, and expansive. During hetereosexual sex, the woman's yin recieves and balances the man's yang. (There are some men who are more yin and some women who are more yang. According to the Taoists the universe always seeks balance in relationships as in nature.)
Likely it will sound crazy, but through meditation and cultivation of sexual energy I think you could probaby "revive" a "healthy" lust for women. Otherwise, you are what you are, I guess.
The Taoist understands that this characteristic of male sexuality in terms of the properties of masculine energy, or yang. Yang is active, volatile, and expansive. During hetereosexual sex, the woman's yin recieves and balances the man's yang. (There are some men who are more yin and some women who are more yang. According to the Taoists the universe always seeks balance in relationships as in nature.)
Likely it will sound crazy, but through meditation and cultivation of sexual energy I think you could probaby "revive" a "healthy" lust for women. Otherwise, you are what you are, I guess.
- Jun 7, 2000
- 9,099
- 19
- 81
I've tried... no luck (yet).
THAT was supposed to haunt me? lol
sorry dude, that didn't do any such thing.Yeah, I've tried watching all kinds of female porn. Barely a response.
Well, I didn't have a strong father figure. He was more of a pain in the ass than a father. My mom and I weren't close either... there really weren't any parents in my family until I turned 13, when they suddenly started controlling everything. My siblings and I pretty much raised ourselves. But anyway, my parents started demeaning me, putting me down, talking bad about me, and making me feel terrible. Everything that I would try, they indicated that I was a failure at.
One example of that was when I was working on the catwalk at my last highschool. I was in 9th grade, I believe, and my father came to pick me up from musical practice early. Well, I was in charge of the catwalk and all auditorium controls, as nobody else knew how to run them without supervision. If I left, the auditorium was to be shut down. The jerk literally walked on stage, looked out over the auditorium house (thank God only the cast and crew were present), and screamed up to the catwalk that I had to immediately leave, and that there was no point in staying to do anything, and that I was probably just lying about being in charge of the catwalk. He continued talking down about me... I let him continue for a minute, just to make an ass of himself, but then I cut him off with the control room microphone. I talked back to him (yeah, real smart of me
), and it made him even more mad. About this time, the musical director started to intervene. She got as far as the side of the stage, when Dad started talking to her. I gather she didn't like what he said, because she turned around, and gave me the hand signal for security panic. I informed dad that he had 10 seconds to leave the premises before I would activate security. When he didn't move, I instead went over to the lighting and sound effects boards. I pressed master blackout, and then fired all red lights in a flash sequence, while sounding a siren. I admit, by that point, I was just pissed and trying to get him out of the auditorium. When the lights started flashing, he ran out. I went home that night, but the music director made me promise to keep a cell phone on me and call 911 if anything happened. Nothing did, once I got home... don't really know why.No, I wasn't the ideal kid in that example. But I disgress. My mother's brother was my only male role model until 1994, when he died of a sudden heart attack. My role model then became my grandpa, and he did his best until he developed alzheimers in 1998. I no longer had a male role model for a long time.
There were a lot more problems in my childhood, but that's all I feel like re-hashing right now.
Thank you!
And how is this relative to anything?
I'm wondering the same thing. Maybe someone should try it, lol. Although I've been trying it, I really don't believe that it will work.
There are MANY people around here that tell me that I'm in the wrong by being gay, but I'm able to ignore them for the most part. There are a few individuals, though, that I can't ignore, because they mean so much to me. I'm very reliant of others right now... I'm trying to change that too.
Go fly a kite. I was here before you.
Andrew
johnjohn320
Diamond Member
- Jan 9, 2001
- 7,572
- 2
- 76
Being gay is not a choice. You're gay. There are plenty of happy and successful gays in the world. Just look at Elton John (yeah ok, that's stereotypical, but I'm right, aren't I?)
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
Good post and i agree 100% it's all about conditioning and conditiong is the reason for our bias against it. Male dogs think nothing of trying to mount another male because they have'nt been conditioned. It's unconsous puritanical because we humans are self aware but the bias is there to be sure. No one has of yet explanied the busexuals who some nights make the choice of a woman and some night a man. Or the prisoners in our system who are really pretty homophobic in the real world but in prison have regular sex. Both to me seem like choices one makes.
And shinnerburke your secret will stay in this thread
I wish there was something I could tell you to help you be secure with who you are, because whether you may think you like it or not, that was your roll of the dice. The truth is that there's absodamnlutely nothing wrong with homosexuality, other than our cultural perception of it. But that being said, again, you have to realize that your mind/body can be entirely under your control with the right level of enlightened conciousness. At that point though, I think one will have transcended physical sexuality altogether
Seriously, a good start is the book The Multi Orgasmic Man, to learn techniques to control and focus sexual energy.
Seriously, a good start is the book The Multi Orgasmic Man, to learn techniques to control and focus sexual energy.
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