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Pope Sorry for Reaction to His Remarks
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StormRider
Diamond Member
If someone threatens you with violence unless you apologize for something you didn't do, some people might say anything to remove that threat of violence.
The quoted text, although a quote, is clearly inflamatory, and an insult to the entire religion. The immediate question was why he used that quote, and didn't soften the impact himself significantly in the original text, and instead promoted the author, if he didn't mean it?
It's only through the apologies that this dimension becomes clearer.
Amused
Elite Member
He spoke the truth. Why should he apologize for that? It's not his fault radical Islamic nutballs were offended and decided to make his words even more true.
If the truth hurts them that much, maybe they should be trying to change it, rather than merely make it even more obvious.
I'm no Christian. I have no love for the Catholic church. But to blame the Pope for calling it as it is, rather than tap dancing around the obvious is absurd.
Hell, the words weren't even his. He was reciting historical texts of a Byzantine emperor.
The Pope should not have disrespected another religion's prophet. His words represent the words of millions. Even if he is right, he should restrain from speaking his mind. If we all spoke our mind ....
If the Muslims had someone representing all of them and he called Jesus a scumbag (which he wont because Jesus is a Muslim prophet) I am sure the world would demand that he apologize too.
However, the Muslims do not have the kind of leadership as the Catholics do. So the words of the powerful Muslims are only heard by a few and not by all. Muslim world is not united by leadership.
Muslims take it to the heart when you disrespect Muhammad because Muhammad alone represents Islam. Muslims can put down the Christians for example, but they wont be doing so disrespecting their prophets, etc because everything in the Bible is found in the Quran.
Believers of the Bible love their Jesus.
Believers of the Quran love their Muhammad.
Jesus is loved by all Islam and Christianity.
Muahmmad is only loved by Muslims.
If the Muslims had someone representing all of them and he called Jesus a scumbag (which he wont because Jesus is a Muslim prophet) I am sure the world would demand that he apologize too.
However, the Muslims do not have the kind of leadership as the Catholics do. So the words of the powerful Muslims are only heard by a few and not by all. Muslim world is not united by leadership.
Muslims take it to the heart when you disrespect Muhammad because Muhammad alone represents Islam. Muslims can put down the Christians for example, but they wont be doing so disrespecting their prophets, etc because everything in the Bible is found in the Quran.
Believers of the Bible love their Jesus.
Believers of the Quran love their Muhammad.
Jesus is loved by all Islam and Christianity.
Muahmmad is only loved by Muslims.
Amused
Elite Member
What did he say that was untrue? Did Muhammad not say to spread Islam by the sward? Is that not inhuman? Even more-so that this practice continues to this day?
We need to stop tap dancing around the truth, folks. I see the same people up in arms over the possibility of a Christian theocracy in the US (a threat that barely exists) have no problem with very real and murderous Muslim theocracies around the world.
Their's is a culture incompatable with any and all liberal ideologies... and yet liberals defend them simply because they are not Christian. It boggles the mind.
So where's the truth? That Mohammed brought nothing new but what is evil and inhumanity? If the pope thinks this true, then I agree that he should go ahead and hold and defend that position publicly. Telling a falsehood is clearly against Christianity; he should be most reluctant to do so.
The above, and reliance on "it's just a quote" again shows yet again the possible confusion between the pope's position and the quoted author.
Amused
Elite Member
No confusion. He clearly cited the author. Anyone who is confused is an ignorant fool.
Where is the truth? Forcing conversion at the point of a sward is inhuman (evil is a religious term, and not one I'm inclined to use). And yet it is the very teaching of Mohammad. The murderous practice continues to this day. The Pope doesn't have to "think it's true." It IS true.
He is standing by his words. He is apologizing for the ignorant and violent reactions of Muslims around the world... reactions that merely prove his point.
'Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'"
Well what he said is true. Islam was spread by force. It was stopped somehow... I dont know the history of it but it didn't make its way into Europe or Eastern Asia.
But the way I look at his comments, he basically said Islam is a religion that has brought noting but evil to this world. No?
Well what he said is true. Islam was spread by force. It was stopped somehow... I dont know the history of it but it didn't make its way into Europe or Eastern Asia.
But the way I look at his comments, he basically said Islam is a religion that has brought noting but evil to this world. No?
Finally something we can all agree on.
I don't think it's the religion that's the issue, really. The influence of religion is overstated, because it's used as a justification much more often than it's used as an actual source of ideas. I bet the Middle East would still be a violent place if they all converted to Mormonism, South America would still be corrupt if they were all Jews, and Texans would still be fat and loud if they were Hindu😛 Culture has a huge influence on morality, regardless of religion...just look at the different beliefs and attitudes of Christians around the world, who are supposedly all following the same religion.
But that's just a crazy theory with no real research behind it.
Amused
Elite Member
Much of Southern Europe was Muslim at one time... and by force. You need to bone up on your history. And many parts of south east asia are quickly being converted to Islam.
But that's irrlevant.
He is right. The spread of Islam was , and still is inhuman and violates every liberal ideology there is. It amazes me when I see leftists defend them, then rally against a non-existent Christian theocracy in the US.
The Pope is right about Islam. Personally, I felt no apology needed. I don't see any of the supposed "good muslims" standing up in outrage over the barbarism and jihad murders.
Where are those supposed "good muslims" who don't believe in murder in the name of their god? Are they too afraid of retribution to speak out?
Peaceful religion my arse.
Where are those supposed "good muslims" who don't believe in murder in the name of their god? Are they too afraid of retribution to speak out?
Peaceful religion my arse.
No, this isn't the point of the complaints IMO. I agree that he's going to stand by his words about forcible conversion and the like, and I'd support him in that, as far as he got it right. It would be widely condemned and hurt his own position if he backed down on that. What next then? Forcible conversion to Christians? Sure would help his declining attendance problem..
The complaint was clearly about the quote itself, and whether or not it represented his own position. If it didn't, then why was it used in full? Why wasn't it made clear that an outright assault on Mohammed was not intended when the quote did exactly that?
In Islam there are two groups.
Group A: They want to love God and live peacefully. They don't care about what others around them think.
Group B: They want to love God and make sure everyone else loves God the way that they believe God sees fit. They will stop you on the street if they see you dressing inappropriate. They will beat you if you do not fast. They will murder you if you sin.
Group A is usually educated whereas Group B is lacking an education.
Group B has more power than Group A, but Group B is the minority. Why? Group A doesn't fight, whereas Group B will go around murdering people in mass numbers to get their way.
Of course.. I could be wrong. Just based on my observations.
Group A: They want to love God and live peacefully. They don't care about what others around them think.
Group B: They want to love God and make sure everyone else loves God the way that they believe God sees fit. They will stop you on the street if they see you dressing inappropriate. They will beat you if you do not fast. They will murder you if you sin.
Group A is usually educated whereas Group B is lacking an education.
Group B has more power than Group A, but Group B is the minority. Why? Group A doesn't fight, whereas Group B will go around murdering people in mass numbers to get their way.
Of course.. I could be wrong. Just based on my observations.
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