Poor performance with new 4890?

[GaiaHunter]

I don't exactly remember that number, but actually it's a bit low. Furmark on a 4890 should be a bit more than 133w (166w wall) The VRMs there may be throttling.

166W was for a 4870 (maybe 512MB, doesn't specify). And they were using a 85% efficiency PSU.

Their reference for a 4890 is 268W. Considering their 4870 value I would consider they already applied the efficiency in the numbers, but even if not, it would still be 227W.

Now, I've seen really different numbers - sites like Anandtech and HardOCP put the 4890 only slightly more power hungry than a 4870. Sites like guru3d and techpowerup have the 4890 as quite a bit more power hungry.

Lets say that only draws 160W or 13.3A opposed to 140W or 11.67A. That is only 1.6A more but would throw your hypothetical system consume to 24A.

I don't know what is the combined amperage of the 12V rails, I only have this xclio label and the calculation I can make puts the 12V amperage at 24A.

In my experience, if PSU manufacturers don't say combined 12V amperage it is because it isn't pretty so I wouldn't expect much more than 24A.

If he had a recent PSU with 30A or more, I wouldn't say it could be the PSU - but old PSU and low amperage...

IMO it can be 3 things - Windows fucked up, Video card fucked up or PSU fucked up.

Well, I'm curious as well. It's always been my understanding that a power-starved PC will simply error out, or shut down due to OCP kicking in. But, lately we have this idea floating around that power-starved systems will throttle themselves somehow.

Guess they could do an article about that.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

1) his computer shuts down because he overclocked his video card. When his vid card is running over specs, then shutting down is not out of norm.

2) you are essentially saying that his 4890 has the ability to throttle its Mhz down when it thinks the power supply can't give it enough juice. I don't believe this is how the 4890 works. Furthermore, assumes that the 4890 can throttle down the Mhz due to a weak power supply, then why would the 4890 attemp to overclock the Mhz even if the user overclock it? Shouldn't the 4890 hava prevented all overclocking too because of inadequate power juice?

3) you think that the 4890 is slow because it is not increasing its speed due to a weak power source, but how do you know? it's just a guess on your part, a guess that I have explained would make no sense considering how the 4890 operate at discreet speeds. It's an all or nothing event. There is no "in between" speeds.

1) Overclock the card makes it draw more power, hence it would have a greater chance of overloading the PSU and shutting down the system.

2) No, I didn't say that at all. There have been cases reported across forums of people installing video cards or updating drivers and sometimes their clockspeeds won't auto-adjust like they should (for 2D and 3D modes). And he is forcing the overclock on his video card, which might be forcing the card to run at the correct clockspeeds in 2D/3D mode. Obviously in 3D mode it's going to draw more power... and hence we're back to #1: More power = greater chance of shutting down the system. This is just my hypothesis; it's not meant to be "right", but plausible.

3) Like I said in #2, I never said I think this is what the 4890 is doing. Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth? However, it may not be outside the realm of possibility that something like this is happening. First, other users have reported similar problems with weak power supplies and video cards. Second, if a system is not behaving properly, there can definitely be "in between" speeds. A screwy system doesn't follow the rules of a normally operating one.

 

[james1701]

I found when I pulled my 8800GT and put in the 4890, that simply uninstalling the drivers and using drive cleaner did not got rid of everything. I had to format my drive and reinstall Windows to get my EI up to 7.6 for graphics. I found some of the physics stuff, and a few hidden things got left behind, reducing my Windows EI score and it would not let a couple of my games run too.

I also found my older Antec Smart Power 2.0 500W power supply was a little under powered. When I ran the OCC video card test, it would just turn my computer off after about 1 minute. It would start out fine, and it was just like someone threw the switch and it would reboot. Changed out the PS and it worked just fine.

 

[nOOky]

I also think it's the psu. I recently added a 4870 in place of an 8800GTS. When running anything that would spool up both the cpu and the gpu it would restart the pc or crash. The Windows Experience Index, CoD5, Crysis would all do it. I popped in a 750 watt Corsair and problem solved. The previous psu was a 500 watt Thermaltake unit.
If you have an electronics store nearby grab a good unit form there and put it in and try it. If the problem goes away order a good unit online and return the one you "borrowed" hehe.

 

[crackshot91]

WOW! Thank you so much guys for all the suggestions. You guys are great! OK, I owe you guys a thorough explanation. Here goes:

I've been running this system for almost 2 yrs without incident (minus the fact that 3.2GHz seems to be my max OC on my cpu):

C2D E6750 overclocked to 3.2GHz (400x8/1.22500 voltage) + Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro

XFX Geforce 8800GT Alphadog Edition overclocked to 670 core/1675 Shader/970 Memory + Arctic Cooling Accelero S1 Rev. 2

G.Skill DDR2-800MHz 4x1GB Sticks (5-5-5-15/1.9v)

Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L Rev. 2

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 250GB HDD w/16mb Cache

Asus DVD-RW

NZXT Apollo Black Mid-Tower (3x120mm fans. 1 Rear exhaust, 1 side intake, 1 front intake)

Xclio Stablepower 500w PSU w/2x 12v rails @18a each

I've had no problems with my system shutting down up to this point as if I unplugged it from the wall. My PSU has two 6-pin PCIe power connectors which are both plugged in to my XFX 4890. I had no problems with the system (including the 4890) until I put some load on the card. I tried the furmark stability test first, and it ran for 10 minutes (the 4890 reach 80c which I was expecting) but then my PC shut down (again, as if I unplugged it from the wall. scared the shiz out of me.)

Then I tried the OCCT test for the cpu (64bit Linpack) which ran for ~an hour and a half with no problems (cpu core 0 and 1 reached 69c) So I tried the PSU test, and it shut down in 2 minutes. (The odd thing is, when I ran the PSU test with my 8800GT, the 12v rails read extremely low at 10.94. With the 4890, they never dropped below 11.24 which is still very low, but I was told these numbers are unreliable. At idle, the 12v rails were lower with my 4890 than my 8800gt at 11.42 vs 11.89)

So, my PC managed to shut down twice. Each time when the GPU was under load, and each time as if I yanked the cord from the wall.

So, stupid me tries to play crysis. I load it up (this is when the windows esperience index still reported 6.0) and play on all high/dx9/1080p and my framerate jumps between 45 and 25fps. It didn't seem to depend on where I looked Either. I was fighting a group of koreans with grenades going of and gunfire everywhere, and was hitting 45fps as expected, and then I was walking up the beach messing with the crabs and it dropped to 25fps for like 10 seconds and picked back up. after like 5 minutes however, the system shut down again.

That's what happened yesterday evening when I got my card. Right now, I'm typing this (obviously) and there are no problems, I don't dare load a game though. I'll probably stick my 8800gt back in till my new psu comes.

So, is there anything I left out? If you need to know anything else, or for me to run anything else, I'll do it. Thanks guys!

 

[Schmide]

166W was for a 4870 (maybe 512MB, doesn't specify). And they were using a 85% efficiency PSU.

Their reference for a 4890 is 268W. Considering their 4870 value I would consider they already applied the efficiency in the numbers, but even if not, it would still be 227W.

Now, I've seen really different numbers - sites like Anandtech and HardOCP put the 4890 only slightly more power hungry than a 4870. Sites like guru3d and techpowerup have the 4890 as quite a bit more power hungry.

All those variances can be attributed to clock and memory config. If you go back to my ratings for idle, gaming and synthetic, they fall right in line. Except for a 4870 doing 133w synthetic, that's way too low.

(snip)
So, is there anything I left out? If you need to know anything else, or for me to run anything else, I'll do it. Thanks guys!

I would advise not running synthetic benchmarks on the videocard and any PSU test. Even if the core can handle the heat, the VRM (voltage regulator modules) especially for the video card are not designed for that level of power and heat and generally lack the cooling to run at that level. Add to that the justified concern over you aging PSU, and you have a recipe for trouble.

Everything else above is spot on and I hope I'm wrong about it not being the PSU and it solves all your problems. Either way, you're getting a good PSU that is much more in line with that level of system.

Hopefully your next questions will be on the line of does my motherboard support the q9550s that can be found for near $180.

 

[crackshot91]

Hopefully your next questions will be on the line of does my motherboard support the q9550s that can be found for near $180.

I was actually planning an entirely new build in a few months ($1500) This 4890 is more like an interim upgrade for a pc that will be relegated to backup status. I was looking at the Q9550 too (yes my mobo supports them), but I can't justify spending another $180 on a system that will be replaced by a Core i7/6GB/5870 monster.

 

[shangshang]

...snipped...

I've had no problems with my system shutting down up to this point as if I unplugged it from the wall. My PSU has two 6-pin PCIe power connectors which are both plugged in to my XFX 4890. I had no problems with the system (including the 4890) until I put some load on the card.

.....

Ok you didn't mention this or wasn't clear about this in your previous posts. In your previous posts, you said your system would run like it's normal only that your framerate was lower than expected. You also only mentioned that your system would only hard crash when you oc'd the vid card. But now that you said the above, then I would say it's becoming more likely to be a PSU issue.

However, I would have done a Windows repair first. Don't have to format anything and you still keep all your programs and most of your settings.

Be sure to report back, and could you also PM me too so I can check up on this thread.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Found this when searching for power consumption of 5850.

http://en.inpai.com.cn/doc/enshowcont.asp?id=7001

This put 4890 at 190W max and 4870 at 157W max - according to AMD sources if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Absolution75]

I don't see how this is such a disputed topic. It has been confirmed in the past (back when the nVidia 6800's came out) that the PSU can be a limiting factor as far as GPU performance is concerned. I've read dozens of threads all saying they upgraded their PSU it brought their system up with the expected performance.

 

[crackshot91]

Well, I just got my 4890 installed with the new PSU and....




It works!!! I'm able to play everything perfectly! I get 35-45FPS in Crysis all high/dx10/4xAA! However, I ran 3dMark06 and I only got 13500... about a 2000 point increase over my 8800gt. Is this normal? My CPU (C2D 3.2GHz) might be holding me back though. IDK.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Well, I just got my 4890 installed with the new PSU and....




It works!!! I'm able to play everything perfectly! I get 35-45FPS in Crysis all high/dx10/4xAA! However, I ran 3dMark06 and I only got 13500... about a 2000 point increase over my 8800gt. Is this normal? My CPU (C2D 3.2GHz) might be holding me back though. IDK.

Have no clue about 3dMark06 - but who cares about that crap... Still, make sure you have no old nvidia drivers in your system - running something like Driver Sweeper or
nVidia Nasty File Remover might help.

If you have time I recommend a fresh windows installation.

By the way, what PSu did you end with?

Glad that you solved your problem. Have fun.

 

[crackshot91]

The OCZ ModXStream Pro 600 Watt.


I ran driversweeper in safemode and got rid of a few files. re-ran 3dmark06 and still got 13.5k. I don't really care though, all my games run much smoother at much higher settings. I can't believe it but there's absolutely no performance hit using 4xAA in crysis! In DX10 mode at least. With DX9, there is a performance hit. Tried 8xAA just for lulz and git 18fps. not terrible.

 

[lavaheadache]

3dmark 06 is extremely cpu limited, If you threw a quad in your rig the score would easily go up by about 2k points. 13.5 is pretty spot on for your system in that POS benchmark. Nice to see the rig is running smoothly for you now

 

[crackshot91]

awesome, thanks.

apparently my card is a shitty overclocker though. It crashed at 900/1000 :/

 

[crackshot91]

I was able to overclock my CPU to 3.4GHz stable at 1.2750v, my ram is overclocked to 850MHz with 5-6-6-15 timings, and I got my 4890 to 900/1025 stable. 14,446 in 3DMark06 and P8064 in Vantage. More importantly, Crysis (Ice level) runs at a smooth 35+fps with 2xAA!!!

I R VURY HAPY@!

 

[joshott]

pretty old, but ill say this. to the guy with the problem, when the 4890 is not using at least 80% load, it reverts its clocks to 500 from the stock. that is causing your problems i can bet. simply watching a movie or decoding a movie, as what the WEI does, will not force an 80% threshold on the gpu. in fact i think its more like 62 or something. i use a cheap 545w MIOS made in china power supply, and i can play far cry for 8 hours straight without a problem. im pretty sure its 32A, but it might be 26. the card says it should have 28, but 24a should be good.

 

[GaiaHunter]

pretty old, but ill say this. to the guy with the problem, when the 4890 is not using at least 80% load, it reverts its clocks to 500 from the stock. that is causing your problems i can bet. simply watching a movie or decoding a movie, as what the WEI does, will not force an 80% threshold on the gpu. in fact i think its more like 62 or something. i use a cheap 545w MIOS made in china power supply, and i can play far cry for 8 hours straight without a problem. im pretty sure its 32A, but it might be 26. the card says it should have 28, but 24a should be good.

Except he got a new PSU and problem is solved.

Skipping posts might not be a good idea...

 

[SolMiester]

All those numbers are at the wall which is 25% more than the actual numbers!

Bloody hell your a argumentative *****, take it elsewhere!

OP, my vote is for a PSU upgrade also!

Edit, I see that schmide was incorrect about the PSU and now the issue is fixed!

 

[Schmide]

Bloody hell your a argumentative *****, take it elsewhere!

OP, my vote is for a PSU upgrade also!

Edit, I see that schmide was incorrect about the PSU and now the issue is fixed!

Nice Monday morning quarterbacking Chief.

Way to troll a dead thread. I stand by everything I said in this thread.

Your friend the pillock.

 

[shangshang]

Bloody hell your a argumentative *****, take it elsewhere!

OP, my vote is for a PSU upgrade also!

Edit, I see that schmide was incorrect about the PSU and now the issue is fixed!

lol u for real? well you get 10 e-brownie points. you're a hero.

 

[SolMiester]

Nice Monday morning quarterbacking Chief.

Way to troll a dead thread. I stand by everything I said in this thread.

Your friend the pillock.

Monday, LOL, Wednesday night here,way ahead of you for sure. I replied to your aggressive posturing, half way through the 2nd thread as I was getting pi**ed off trying to follow the thread, but then again, seen that from you before...
Didnt see any backing down from you though once you had been proven wrong I might add....and you are calling me a troll!....

 

[Tattare]

I recently ordered parts for a new system and Iv been having the same problems with a xfx 4890.
Windows Experience Index comes in at 6.0. I didnt upgrade my PSU in my recent purchases as my old is from late 2008. OCZ Game x Stream 700w, GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI ~50A.
Flashed my new GA-P55-UD3R to F4 Bios, Fresh install of the OS, setup the motherboard drivers first then downloaded Catalyst 9.11.
new i5 thats not OC'ed is coming in at 6.9
new Gskill Eco ddr3-1600 currently running at 1333 1.5v coming in at 7.5

PSU issues?

 

[crackshot91]

Grow up, SolMiester. Schmide was right on the money with his troubleshooting suggestions. Unfortunately, I didn't report back after I tried them. They didn't work and if I'd have mentioned it, I'm sure Schmide would have come to the same conclusion I had. It was the PSU. Anyway, performance is great now, guys. Thanks for all the help!

 

[yh125d]

I recently ordered parts for a new system and Iv been having the same problems with a xfx 4890.
Windows Experience Index comes in at 6.0. I didnt upgrade my PSU in my recent purchases as my old is from late 2008. OCZ Game x Stream 700w, GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI ~50A.
Flashed my new GA-P55-UD3R to F4 Bios, Fresh install of the OS, setup the motherboard drivers first then downloaded Catalyst 9.11.
new i5 thats not OC'ed is coming in at 6.9
new Gskill Eco ddr3-1600 currently running at 1333 1.5v coming in at 7.5

PSU issues?

WEI reading low is NOT a problem. It's completely useless and should be removed completely


Now, if your GAMES are actually running slower than expected, that could be a problem