Sunny129
Diamond Member
- Nov 14, 2000
- 4,823
- 6
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If you go back and read what i originally had to say about Bush as governer, you'll realize that whether he was the governer of Texas, Florida, or any other state doesnt matter one bit as far as what i'm saying about his policies. and of course florida has a recount bill that says if the polls close with a race 0.5% or less, the votes shall be recounted. whether texas state law says the exact same thing, or a variation of the above law doesnt matter. the fact is that the same law he imposed at the state level is now coming back to haunt him at the federal level. now he might not have this problem if the debate were in a state with no recount laws, but he's not.
well I hope for you guys that this brings changes to the electoral process, this is just insanity. It's like pissing on your own constitution and saying no big loss. There should be an indipendent electoral office that takes care of all of this, everyone on both side are all biased. I don't know how one or the other can claim victory in this situation. I just think that the first nation of democracy that is a model to the rest of the world is treating this like a big joke.
No Nick, not a big joke.
You & the rest of the world gets to see what happens... That is a big part of things... Everyone gets to see.
There is a mechanism in place for the peaceful resolution of results... no tanks rolling down the street... no armed troops...
This system may not even always give the perfect result... it does however give a good result... The loser of this election does not have to fear imprisonment or execution because he lost.
If there was an independent ELECTOR OFFICE, how long would it be before they unethically decided to help a candidate or even themselves.
Current balance is provided at least in part by the losing side...
It doesn't matter which side wins or loses... the system still works
You & the rest of the world gets to see what happens... That is a big part of things... Everyone gets to see.
There is a mechanism in place for the peaceful resolution of results... no tanks rolling down the street... no armed troops...
This system may not even always give the perfect result... it does however give a good result... The loser of this election does not have to fear imprisonment or execution because he lost.
If there was an independent ELECTOR OFFICE, how long would it be before they unethically decided to help a candidate or even themselves.
Current balance is provided at least in part by the losing side...
It doesn't matter which side wins or loses... the system still works
Sunny... You are full of crap...
the legislature makes & passes laws... so explain to me in some logical manner... not this pap you have been spouting...
How is a law written by the LEGISLATURE in Texas is going to haunt Bush at the federal level ???
Is this Law going to die & become a ghost ?? Will it jump out from behind a tree & say BOOOOOO ! Since it is a Texas law will it go to Bush's Texas ranch & rattle chains in the dark hours after midnight ?
the legislature makes & passes laws... so explain to me in some logical manner... not this pap you have been spouting...
How is a law written by the LEGISLATURE in Texas is going to haunt Bush at the federal level ???
Is this Law going to die & become a ghost ?? Will it jump out from behind a tree & say BOOOOOO ! Since it is a Texas law will it go to Bush's Texas ranch & rattle chains in the dark hours after midnight ?
I don't think Gore should concede one bit. People, thousands and thousands of votes have been disqualified due to suspicious voting in several counties. There is a watchdog group down there right now preparing a full summary of the ballots for public record because neither side can be trusted.
To just hand over the election because of a measly handful of votes (while at the same time disqualifying thousands and thousands (for both sides)) is ridiculous and short-sighted. Any rational person should see that the margin of error is so much higher than either Bush or Gore's margin of victory. It doesn't make sense why Americans are so willing to just hand it over to either side because they're tired of hearing about it for the past 3 weeks.
Look at the election of Rutherford B. Hayes in 1876. That struggle went on for 6 months with results not being certified until the day before inauguration.
To just hand over the election because of a measly handful of votes (while at the same time disqualifying thousands and thousands (for both sides)) is ridiculous and short-sighted. Any rational person should see that the margin of error is so much higher than either Bush or Gore's margin of victory. It doesn't make sense why Americans are so willing to just hand it over to either side because they're tired of hearing about it for the past 3 weeks.
Look at the election of Rutherford B. Hayes in 1876. That struggle went on for 6 months with results not being certified until the day before inauguration.
shirf.... thousands of votes were not disqualified...
thousands of ballots were discarded.. it was a small percentage. the usual percentage. The same way it has been for many years.. The same way it was in 38% of the US in this election.
Most people agree that there is about a 1% no vote for president nationwide... This is not mismarked or error on the ballot. The exit polls also get about 1% no vote for president.
Now look at the number of 'contested' ballots... close to 1%..
Look at Palm Beech county... They hand counted over 10,000 ballots & found maybe 4-500 votes out of those 10,000.
This would be 5%... 95% were still no votes.. this does not include the 19,000 that were double voted.
Do any of these numbers make sense to you ?
There was no 'suspicious' voting
thousands of ballots were discarded.. it was a small percentage. the usual percentage. The same way it has been for many years.. The same way it was in 38% of the US in this election.
Most people agree that there is about a 1% no vote for president nationwide... This is not mismarked or error on the ballot. The exit polls also get about 1% no vote for president.
Now look at the number of 'contested' ballots... close to 1%..
Look at Palm Beech county... They hand counted over 10,000 ballots & found maybe 4-500 votes out of those 10,000.
This would be 5%... 95% were still no votes.. this does not include the 19,000 that were double voted.
Do any of these numbers make sense to you ?
There was no 'suspicious' voting
cxim -
Thanks for bringing up the 19,000 double-punched ballots in a state where Bush is receiving less than a 1% margin. Sorry, but this will always make me cautious. Especially as I see with every recount, the margin of error becomes even clearer as Bush's lead has steadily trended downward (according to CNN's website). Why do you think the Bush team is trying to stall any more recounts. They're hoping to squeak by as the American public's attention span is no greater than that of your average 2-year old.
Face it, the Republicans will stalwart this election until they win. However, as any intelligent person knows, their margin of error will always be greater than their margin of victory. At this point, Democrats should be rallying to throw Florida out based upon numerous irregularities and let the contest go to the Congress as it did in the Hayes/Tilden election of 1876.
Oh well, Bush will be yet another "Dark Horse" in the White House. And if history repeats itself, as it usually does, his administration will accomplish nothing and he'll be gone in 4 years (just like his father, just like Hayes) and the American public will scarcely remember his name.
Thanks for bringing up the 19,000 double-punched ballots in a state where Bush is receiving less than a 1% margin. Sorry, but this will always make me cautious. Especially as I see with every recount, the margin of error becomes even clearer as Bush's lead has steadily trended downward (according to CNN's website). Why do you think the Bush team is trying to stall any more recounts. They're hoping to squeak by as the American public's attention span is no greater than that of your average 2-year old.
Face it, the Republicans will stalwart this election until they win. However, as any intelligent person knows, their margin of error will always be greater than their margin of victory. At this point, Democrats should be rallying to throw Florida out based upon numerous irregularities and let the contest go to the Congress as it did in the Hayes/Tilden election of 1876.
Oh well, Bush will be yet another "Dark Horse" in the White House. And if history repeats itself, as it usually does, his administration will accomplish nothing and he'll be gone in 4 years (just like his father, just like Hayes) and the American public will scarcely remember his name.
shif.. what I am getting at is that these numbers are pretty much the same in a large part of the US. Cook county, for instance, discarded 180,000 ballots this election.
There has been this loud democrat outcry that something is unusual in Florida.. there is not..
The other funny part is that in most of the republican counties, the discard ballot rate is lower.
Some useful information is that the voting machines are basically chosen by the county commissioners. In south East Florida, It is democrats that decided what machines to use. They have been perfectly satisfied with the machines up until now.
The governor doesn't make that choice. Neither does the legislature... it is made locally.
Bush team stalling ? Yes & no...
Most of them feel like I do, I think...
The democrats knew that the discard rate was high in these counties. It has been for the past 15yrs or so... no matter who was in the election & no matter who won.
It was part of the election game... both side accepted it....
This year the democrats decided to play with new rules... & not accept the machine counts....
Look up the definition of gerrymander... it means to pick a limited voter area where one side has an advantage. Thats what the dems did in this race.
They did it in a new & novel way... only demand recounts in areas where they have a very large majority. In many states a victor in a county can not obtain a recount...
The democrats have tried to exploit a loophole.... state wide election but don't demand statewide exam of the ballots... only demand recount in your area of strength... & where local partisan party members control the election process top to bottom.... ignore ares where there is weakness.
There has been this loud democrat outcry that something is unusual in Florida.. there is not..
The other funny part is that in most of the republican counties, the discard ballot rate is lower.
Some useful information is that the voting machines are basically chosen by the county commissioners. In south East Florida, It is democrats that decided what machines to use. They have been perfectly satisfied with the machines up until now.
The governor doesn't make that choice. Neither does the legislature... it is made locally.
Bush team stalling ? Yes & no...
Most of them feel like I do, I think...
The democrats knew that the discard rate was high in these counties. It has been for the past 15yrs or so... no matter who was in the election & no matter who won.
It was part of the election game... both side accepted it....
This year the democrats decided to play with new rules... & not accept the machine counts....
Look up the definition of gerrymander... it means to pick a limited voter area where one side has an advantage. Thats what the dems did in this race.
They did it in a new & novel way... only demand recounts in areas where they have a very large majority. In many states a victor in a county can not obtain a recount...
The democrats have tried to exploit a loophole.... state wide election but don't demand statewide exam of the ballots... only demand recount in your area of strength... & where local partisan party members control the election process top to bottom.... ignore ares where there is weakness.
Yes Algore should give it up, I mean I agree with what's worng with the American people having their votes counted, but how many times does it take to prove you've lost, we're at 4 now so when do you stop?
Besides, it now seems Al Gore doesn't exactly want ALL the votes counted.....he has suits set for date that would disallow thousands of votes........Al, bud, what happened to ALL the votes? it shouldn't matter one bit....ALL is a very inclusive word! Maybe he should have said I want the votes I want recounted, recounted, but not neccessarily ALL the votes!
- What seems to be the stategy Gores team is now using is to file so many law suits in so many courts that somewhere along the line there will be a judge that will give him what he wants! Saul has not agreed to any recount, in fact, quite the oppisite, he stated that he hoped to avoid doing a recount by looking at some of the near 14,000 ballots disputed by Gore to see if there was even any just cause for this suit. How he expects to do that I have no idea! The hearing is set for Saturday, but in the meantime Gore has filed another suit with the FL Supreme Court to expidite his wishes.......problem is, they don't seem to be to happy with him at the momet because of last weeks decision they gave him and he is still not happy!
- One thing I have noticed, Gores team is now making very little of the Harris decision. Yes, they still dispute the outcome, but they have shifted to resoning of uncounted ballots instead of malice on Harris's behalf. They wanted to use as a main point that the Republicans disrupted the count in Miami/Dade, but even the Democrats there deny that it took place.
- Another count or not, things look bad for both sides.....Gore is now filing suit after suit after suit, and his public opinion ratings are slumping daily. Bush has to come out and refute all of this, and honestly, they seem to be at a point they don't know quite what to do......file more suits of their own, or wait and see if Gore burns himself out......at least thats what one anchorman said!
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