Poll: Ultimate Question - Should Al Gore Concede the Election?

[Zucchini]

A poll on this? On a heavily conservative board? hah oh well. Conceed, no way! Bush in his arrogance declared victory as a political move. He should have taken the high ground.. a wait and see attitude to make sure the election was completely sorted out. Of course instead he just takes a wild grab for power

 

[MrChicken]

I think Gore should keep fighting. In the end he will show his true self to the extent that even his most ardent supporters wont back him. Gore doesnt want "fairness", he wants his way, period. Fairness is just a cover for getting what Albert Gore wants. Counting all the votes is another cover. Only the votes in Fla count to him, otherwise he would be insisting on all the votes being counted everywhere in the US, not just three counties in Fla. Of course the votes everywhere else wont get him elected, just the votes in those 3 counties will.
This will allow the Reps to win both houses again in the mid-term election, no matter who wins the presidency.

He lost the first count....
He lost the machine recount....
He won in the Fla Supreme Court, and got the extension he wanted. The Dems were declaring victory based upon Palm Beach county alone. In the end PB didnt finish and even if they had, he still fell short. Also I think it worth noting that if the canvassing board had spent more time canvassing than interviewing on TV, they would have easily finished on time. It may not be fair that the hand recount doesnt count because the deadline passed, but it was the three Dems on the PB canvassing board that were at fault and nobody else, they had enough time and they squandered it.
He has lost, his only savior now is legal wrangling. They have already counted the heavily Dem, most favorable precincts(sp?) in Miami-Dade, and he still doesnt have enough. When they get to other precincts that are Rep or even, he will start losing votes again to Bush and they know it, that's why he wants to mine these "10000" undervotes.

What happens and happened in Broward where the canvassing board "devined" the intent of the voter is not 1 vote for 1 person. What it becomes is 3 canvassers voting 10000 times through their "devine" estimation. What if it was to proposed that 3 Republicans make up the Miami-Dade canvassing board and let them "devine" voter intent, do you think it be fair to Gore?

Count loose chads, I'm ok with that, "devine" a voters intent? No way!

 

[stonythug]

I think I remember Al Gore asking for a complete manual recount. He's actually asked for it a few times and I think a certain someone has been too scared of the result. They asked for only those counties because those were the counties where there seemed to be irregularities in the vote tallies. Palm Beach obviously had a huge irregularity because 20,000 votes they were expecting for Al Gore weren't there(due to the butterfly ballot). They weren't sure that was the reason then, but it was obvious something was wrong. If Bush isn't afraid of the result why doesn't he ask for a manual recount. For a person who ran on the campaign of trusting the people, Bush sure didn't trust them enough to count ballots. Don't give me that crap about human error and stuff because yes there is human error but it is so much less than the error generated by these stupid machines. Ask anyone who knows anything about these machines and they'll tell you that they're innaccurate. If Bush thought there was something wrong with manual recounts and dimples why did he sign that bill in Texas? Did he agree with the law he was signing as long as it was never applied to him? If this happened in Texas would he be saying that the manual recount is more innaccurate even though he just signed that bill stating just the opposite? Or is it that he believes that Floridians are more prone to corrruption and the only people he can really trust are Texans? Interesting hypocracies if you ask me.

 

[Format C:]

YAWN

 

[Format C:]

Oh, well. YAWN again

 

[stonythug]

etech what you fail to mention is all of the democratic absentee ballots that never got the chance to be fixed. Therefore by only allowing the republicans to fix the republican ballots and not allowing the democrats to do the same for the democratic ballots, she was discriminating against the democratic voters and not giving them the same opportunity to vote that the republicans had. There doesn't have to be tampering for the actions of an elections officer to affect the outcome of the election. If she had allowed the democrats to do the same for democratic ballots that had been messed up I think Al Gore might have been able to pick up the 500 votes he needed to beat Bush. That if is irrelevant however because no one knows what would have happened and no one will. As I said in my earlier post all precedents set say that when there is a descrepency that the votes must be thrown out. Al Gore and his team have not been working on this case, it was brought by a private citizen and is still being fought by a private citizen who has a legitimate complaint. This was wrong and even if Al Gore did support it, he's just supporting this voters right for a fair election. I love how you quote the Wall Street Journal, it being an extremely conservative newspaper. If you want the facts, look elsewhere because they will give you the spin in the WSJ.

 

[Zucchini]

Yup gore did ask bush to cooperate with him for a recount of every county, bush of course refused. So gore was left to choose 4 counties to recount, i think thats the limit by law. Bush just feared the results.

 

[PCAddict]

Al Gore should have conceded days ago. But, he is showing us again that he is not a man of integrity.

 

[etech]

Dems just don't want the votes to count. There was no tampering with the ballots. There is no evidence of any democratic ballots being diqualified because of this.

I repeat, Gore wants all votes to count, but only when they are for him.

Bush did not want the democrats hand recounting because of what has happened, the democrats are divining voter intentions.
"Is that a dimple,let me get my magnifying glass, yep must be a vote for Gore"

It's scary to the election process when they start guessing what the voters intended to do instead of what they actually did. That is what is fscked up with the manual recounts, recounts, recounts.

 

[stonythug]

Mr. Chicken

He lost the first count....
He lost the machine recount....

Both done by the same innaccurate machines that even the manufacturer said shouldn't be trusted

In the end PB didnt finish and even if they had, he still fell short.

If the votes had been counted as the judge had ordered them too, and how they are counted in many other states including Texas and Mass. it would have been enough.

Also I think it worth noting that if the canvassing board had spent more time canvassing than interviewing on TV, they would have easily finished on time

I think it is worth noting that if the Bush team hadn't tried to stop the recount from going forward so many times and hadn't used their elections pawn Harris to say that she wouldn't accept the recounts they would have finished in plenty of time. Why couldn't Bush just let the recounts go forward and then have the courts dissallow the results rather than trying to get an injunction against the act of counting, thereby slowing the whole ordeal. Also if the Bush team hadn't been so opposed to Gore's lawful right to a recount it would have gone a lot quicker.

that's why he wants to mine these "10000" undervotes.
You mean the votes that should have been counted the first two times in the innaccurate machines but weren't? So because a machine couldn't read the vote that it doesn't count?

Gore doesnt want "fairness", he wants his way, period. Fairness is just a cover for getting what Albert Gore wants

You mean the same way that George wanted to be a drunk for the first 40 years of his life and was. Then he decided he wanted to be in the oil business then was(thx dad). Unfortunately he failed miserably so he decided he wanted to try and own the Texas Rangers, that really sounds neato(thx again dad). That he actually did alright at(maybe he should go back to baseball, I trust him more with a baseball than a nuke). Then the way he decided he wanted to be governor(extra thx dad). Now he wants to be President(you're the best dad!), and a full hand recount could really get in his way so he decided that he wanted to go back on what he had said about trusting the people and on the bill he signed about hand recounts. Bush really wants to be president. Too bad he didn't earn it like the 20+ years of public service that Al Gore has put in.

 

[etech]

Stoneythug, now I know you have lost it.

"Too bad he didn't earn it like the 20+ years of public service that Al Gore has put in. "

I can't even express just how wrong that statement is.

 

[stonythug]

etech,
I repeat Gore has nothing to do with this challenge.

How about if next year the democrats hide the polling place in the democratic counties in a secret democratic spot. Then when the votes are tallied there would be no tampering at all, the democrats would just have an unfair advantage.

The counters are "divining" the will of the voter because they have to, that's what the courts say. You must make every effort to make every vote count, that's how it should be. If George thinks that this diving is so bad, why did he sign the bill in Texas which is actually more lenient in "divining" votes than the procedure that has been used in Florida?

 

[Zucchini]

Did you somehow forget that there are republicans sitting there helping "devine" the intentions of the voters? Its not just a bunch of democrats in a dark room like you would like it to appear. Hand recounts are considered fair ways to determine elections, even bush thought so at 1st.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Concerning the recount BS, as I said before:

Every election tens of thousands of votes are thrown out due to voting errors, all across the USA (more votes were thrown out in Florida last election than this time around btw). There's no telling who would have won if every ballot had been filled out properly and counted properly. So why not just do the whole election over, or do one big recount? It's not feasable, it's unconsitutional and there would still be the same problems. Thus, as a matter of principle, there's no point in making a fuss over just Florida.

Bush won, it's time to move on. If the Democrats really care so much about fixing the system and "making sure everyone's voice is heard" (which they only do when it benefits them), they'll have plenty of time to do so over the next 4yrs.

And for the clowns who still claim Gore has the popular vote:

1) Only half of the population voted.

2) The news reported that Gore had won before the elections were finished on the west coast. Don't you think that had an impact on Republican voter turn out?

3) I don't feel like digging up a link to the map, but Bush won more counties by a VAST majority.

 

[stonythug]

What are you talking about? Do you know anything about Al Gore. Do you know what he's done for the past 20 years or do you just look at a ballot and put your vote next to whatever says republican. How much has Bush served this country and his people. I guess he served them by not hitting them during his drunken driving. Good thing he learned his lesson ten years after that. While George was taking his sweet time learning that he shouldn't drink so much(pretty slow learner if he didn't realize it until his forties) Al Gore held public office after public office. I can't believe that you would trust Bush with our country. What has he ever done? He's never earned one thing in his whole life.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Hey rockhead, Bush has been the governor of Texas for a while now. He's improved things quite a bit from how they were under the previous Gov. Ann Rice (Democrat). He also unified the Republicans and the Democrats in the state. This is why he has a 70% approval rating there...

 

[ManSnake]

LOL, Gore should definitely fight on, I don't wanna a felon to be my president, I don't wanna a dumbass who doesn't even know that Slovenia is not Slovakia, who doesn't even know how to pronounce the word nuclear to rule my country, I don't want people from other countries to laugh at my beloved US of A!!

So go Gore go, and bye dubya!!

 

[stonythug]

Thus, as a matter of principle, there's no point in making a fuss over just Florida

A matter of what principle? When it's close let's not count every vote, that's too hard and we're too impatient. I need to know who my president is now! now! now! now! I don't think so. Why do we have to have another election to do a full manual recount? Why can't we just do it on this one. By the way all of you people who are saying Bush won, it's over blah blah blah. Have you taken a statistics class? Have you looked at the margin of error of those machines? Do you realize this is a statistical tie or do you just see two numbers, one ever so slightly larger than the other and say "Gee that number is bigger, I guess he won". We don't know who won, it's just too close and the margin of error is too great. Since a full hand recount isn't going to happen then Gore has to fight to get every vote counted he can. If Bush cared about counting every vote then he should have asked for a full manual recount. Bush doesn't care about every vote being counted as long as he is ahead in the end. That is a moral and ethical weakness if you ask me. If he believed he won and he had the votes then count the whole state. Don't feed me that crap about manual recounts be biased especially since his votes would have been counted in Republican counties the same way they are being counted in Democratic counties. About winning more counties, who cares? You think winning the largest surface area has anything to do with winning the election?

 

[MrChicken]

Stony:

<Mr. Chicken

He lost the first count....
He lost the machine recount....

Both done by the same innaccurate machines that even the manufacturer said shouldn't be trusted>

The county is controlled by Dems, has been for years, maybe decades, why didnt they buy better machines? No whining....


<In the end PB didnt finish and even if they had, he still fell short.

If the votes had been counted as the judge had ordered them too, and how they are counted in many other states including Texas and Mass. it would have been enough.>

I believe the the judge left it up the discretion of the county canvassing board, they used their dscretion.

<Also I think it worth noting that if the canvassing board had spent more time canvassing than interviewing on TV, they would have easily finished on time

I think it is worth noting that if the Bush team hadn't tried to stop the recount from going forward so many times and hadn't used their elections pawn Harris to say that she wouldn't accept the recounts they would have finished in plenty of time. Why couldn't Bush just let the recounts go forward and then have the courts dissallow the results rather than trying to get an injunction against the act of counting, thereby slowing the whole ordeal. Also if the Bush team hadn't been so opposed to Gore's lawful right to a recount it would have gone a lot quicker.>

Again, quit whining, the PB canvassing board had the time to fininsh even with the court challenges, they only needed 2 more hours to finish. they wasted way more tiome than that. Again they used discretion to take all of the Thansgiving holiday off, when the Broward county canavassing board opted to keep working, and of course, Broward finished on time.

<that's why he wants to mine these &quot;10000&quot; undervotes.
You mean the votes that should have been counted the first two times in the innaccurate machines but weren't? So because a machine couldn't read the vote that it doesn't count? >

Again, the Dems had plenty of time to replace those machines, all they had to do was do it. If the Dems had all this time replace those &quot;unreliable&quot; machines and they know that they are unreliable, then why didnt they do something about it? Could it be that they really favor hand recounts that take weeks to finish? I love the way Dems think, the machines suck, we know it, they have sucked for many many elections, and now that Dem candidate is in trouble, they blame the machines that they didnt replace because they were too cheap do anything about it.

<Gore doesnt want &quot;fairness&quot;, he wants his way, period. Fairness is just a cover for getting what Albert Gore wants

You mean the same way that George wanted to be a drunk for the first 40 years of his life and was. Then he decided he wanted to be in the oil business then was(thx dad). Unfortunately he failed miserably so he decided he wanted to try and own the Texas Rangers, that really sounds neato(thx again dad). That he actually did alright at(maybe he should go back to baseball, I trust him more with a baseball than a nuke). Then the way he decided he wanted to be governor(extra thx dad). Now he wants to be President(you're the best dad!), and a full hand recount could really get in his way so he decided that he wanted to go back on what he had said about trusting the people and on the bill he signed about hand recounts. Bush really wants to be president. Too bad he didn't earn it like the 20+ years of public service that Al Gore has put in. >

Say what You will about GW, but he is a millionare, even if he inherited some of it, and he made his own millions on the Ranger deal. Yeah he was an alky, and he isnt now, your point is? He failed in a business, so what? How many businessman succeed the first time? How about everytime? BTW, when will you be a millionaire and a presidential candidate that gets 49 million votes?

Oh and BTW, IMHO anybody who doesnt take the capable help his parents offer is an utter fool.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

That margin of error applies to all the other states that were close. Recounting a few counties in Florida won't guarantee &quot;the voice of the people&quot; is heard

About winning more counties, who cares? You think winning the largest surface area has anything to do with winning the election?

Those are farming counties, where most of this country's food and resources come from.

 

[MrChicken]

<Did you somehow forget that there are republicans sitting there helping &quot;devine&quot; the intentions of the voters? Its not just a bunch of democrats in a dark room like you would like it to appear. Hand recounts are considered fair ways to determine elections, even bush thought so at 1st. >

The Republicans are &quot;observers&quot; they have no say whatsoever how the vote is &quot;devined&quot; and then counted. The three members of the canvassing board &quot;devine&quot; the vote. The Rep can object, but the board can just simply ignore him.

Board: That's a gore vote...
Rep observer: No it isnt!
Board, yes it is!, next !

You may be thinking of the general recount, in that case any objection forces the ballot into the &quot;questionable&quot; pile. those ballots are the ones that get devined by the board, and once there the board has final say.

 

[Zucchini]

and so? California also produces a massive pile of food.. its irrelevent.

 

[Zucchini]

So in other words your saying that hand counts like the ones bush supported in texas are inherently corrupt.

 

[Format C:]

stonythug I feel for ya slugger. Its just not fair and it really hurts to be a loser huh? Keep your chin up sport. Maybe next game you won't foul out. Now, be a good boy, suck it up, pull that lip back in and dry your face. Then get in line to congratulate the winners. And stop pulling your hair and jumping up and down. People are beginning to stare. Here, have a LifeSavers.

 

[Brambory]

As a lifelong Democrat I would like to see Gore concede, making it more likely that there is a decisive Dem win in 2002 and 2004. That way we keep Lieberman's Senate seat, making a greater argument for power sharing, which the Republicans won't do, leading to a backlash in the 2002 election (remember '94?). Please Al, concede for the good of the party, for America, and for a good career move for yourself.