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POLL: Should the US step up if Taiwan gets attacked?

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Originally posted by: Proletariat
Again, this is why the smart people go to P and N.

http://www.taiwandc.org/wsj-2000-03.htm">Taiwans maturing democracy</a>

If America does not stand up for its ally and fight the Imperialist Chinese, it will look very bad for the 'beacon of worldwide democracy'.
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Right, it's democratic, but it's not sovereign, and there is nothing imperialistic about wanting to keep part of one's country intact. The US would not tolerate California wanting to split now, would it?
 
Originally posted by: yllus
Absolutely. The alternative is to prove with finality that the U.S. will not stand up against the destruction of democratic countries.
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If it's not about ensuring the constant supply of cheap oil into the US - do you think that we would bother wasting the $$$ to get involved? Sure, plenty of cheap computer goods are made in Taiwan, but so are they in mainland China, and somewhat cheaply in Japan too.
 
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Originally posted by: yllus
Absolutely. The alternative is to prove with finality that the U.S. will not stand up against the destruction of democratic countries.
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If it's not about ensuring the constant supply of cheap oil into the US - do you think that we would bother wasting the $$$ to get involved? Sure, plenty of cheap computer goods are made in Taiwan, but so are they in mainland China, and somewhat cheaply in Japan too.
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In this impossible scenario, yes, no matter who was in the White House - the U.S. would get involved. As cynical as may sound, it would be best to give China a little slap and keep their hands off of Taiwan rather than enbolden them to expand, knowing that the U.S. will do nothing. It's a must-do.

(The cynicism is completely fitting considering the scenario being discussed.)
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Proletariat
Again, this is why the smart people go to P and N.

http://www.taiwandc.org/wsj-2000-03.htm">Taiwans maturing democracy</a>

If America does not stand up for its ally and fight the Imperialist Chinese, it will look very bad for the 'beacon of worldwide democracy'.
Click to expand...
Right, it's democratic, but it's not sovereign, and there is nothing imperialistic about wanting to keep part of one's country intact. The US would not tolerate California wanting to split now, would it?
Click to expand...
Hmm reading my post I seemed very rude. Sorry about that.

I don't understand the attitude of apologists like you, though. Should we let the Chinese attain their dream of a one China that stretches across Asia. They don't play by any rules at all. How are they imperialist you ask? Over 1/3rd of their land was stolen after 1950. They have a horrible record with minorities and participate in assimilation. If they take Taiwan it will just be another example of their inability to work with the world at all.
 
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Hell strike a deal with the ChiComs. They can have Taiwan if they take out North Korea first! We'll promise them that we will detonate the self destruct mechanisms in the Military Equipment we sold Taiwan if they do.
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National Security=Big Business=Money

This is a great compromise. Everyone, PRC, Russia, Japan and US would like the maniac in charge of NKorea be thrown out.

N Korea is part of the axis of evil according to Pres Bush.

We took out Iraq, next is Iran and then we can finish the job w/ N Korea. I think its responsbile to let China try to clean up this mess. Its in their backyard so they should do it.

Haven't we lost enough of your young men and women in Iraq. We will lose more in Iran.

Let the PRC take on the zealots in N korea! Taiwan is a minor issue.

 
I don't know on this one. I have a feeling this latest stuff in the news is just more idle chest beating between the two as usual.

It just seems like this would be an extremely costly war. I've heard "once we bomb the center of industry...we've won" before, it was called Iraq. We could almost certainly destroy China's ability to make war...but there is no way we could occupy and control China. It would take some sort of super draft to be able to do that. I doubt we would nuke the hell out of them.

China isn't stupid though. They're waiting until they are powerful and US is weak. Then they'll move in. They're an old nation, they know how to wait. Perhaps by that time they'll have become sufficently capitalistic that it would be a smooth transition though. I dunno. I don't like to think about the USA and China fighting though, but neither could really force the other into an unconditional surrender were they determined. Maybe the US if nukes were used.

Should the USA defend? I have no idea, it seems like it would be a sh|tty mess, especially since we aren't exactly rolling in friends around the world these days.
 
We already have our hands full with the mid-East.
Let the Chinese duke it out themselves.... they've got a population crisis anyway.
 
Originally posted by: PingSpike
It just seems like this would be an extremely costly war. I've heard "once we bomb the center of industry...we've won" before, it was called Iraq. We could almost certainly destroy China's ability to make war...but there is no way we could occupy and control China. It would take some sort of super draft to be able to do that. I doubt we would nuke the hell out of them.
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the US would not invade China, they would just destroy China's ability to transport troops to Taiwan in an invasion. Which could possibly be done just using the US Navy and Air Force from Japan and Guam.
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Proletariat
Again, this is why the smart people go to P and N.

http://www.taiwandc.org/wsj-2000-03.htm">Taiwans maturing democracy</a>

If America does not stand up for its ally and fight the Imperialist Chinese, it will look very bad for the 'beacon of worldwide democracy'.
Click to expand...
Right, it's democratic, but it's not sovereign, and there is nothing imperialistic about wanting to keep part of one's country intact. The US would not tolerate California wanting to split now, would it?
Click to expand...

Skoorb, fellow Canadian, your not going to find any common ground with Americans 🙂

That said, I agree it will be necessary to intervene against the Chinese. Stepping up now when China is still a fledgling superpower will be significantly easier than when they match or exceed the USA...
 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
But taiwan is not a democratic, sovereign nation.
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But according to Wikipedia:

The ROC maintains formal diplomatic relations with 25 countries, mostly in Central America and Africa. Interestingly, the Holy See also recognizes the ROC, mainly out of protest of the PRC's suppression of the Catholic faith on the mainland.
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So if you live in one of these countries, or are a REALLY, REALLY devout Catholic, Taiwan is a sovereign nation. But I digress, this belongs in P&N. Here, it just brings danger to the masses. 😛

EDIT: While I support a defense of Taiwan, or at least all the necessary posturing to keep cooler heads prevailing and war from breaking out, I can't help but be reminded of this:
You only think I guessed wrong - that's what's so funny. I switched glasses when your back was turned. Ha-ha, you fool. You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is "Never get involved in a land war in Asia", but only slightly less well known is this: "Never go in against a Sicilian, when *death* is on the line.". Hahahahahah...
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I dont know, you better ask bush if theres enough oil to steal, I mean save in there for us to go in there and loose more of our troops lives.


i say we stay out. we should clean up our own yard befor looking to clean up a neighbors
 
It depends on who you ask as to whether ROC has sovereignty. There are a lot of tests/definitions of sovereignty that ROC does fit. It does rule itself, and while it is a bit murky as to the "official" status, most nations do recognize taiwan as being under its own rule. I don't know where you are getting your seemingly biased information, skoorb, but it isn't really in keeping with international relations at the moment, which are more like recognizing taiwan without trying to upset china. In order to do so, we call our embassies pseudo embassies or quasi embassies. It's kind of like "civil union" versus "marriage". You seem to be suggesting that even "civil unions" don't exist.
 
Originally posted by: nakedfrog
How's Tibet these days?
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You know you have a point.....lets let the South cede from the Union. I think the folks in Alabama have been oppressed too long too!

 
Originally posted by: maddogchen
Originally posted by: PingSpike
It just seems like this would be an extremely costly war. I've heard "once we bomb the center of industry...we've won" before, it was called Iraq. We could almost certainly destroy China's ability to make war...but there is no way we could occupy and control China. It would take some sort of super draft to be able to do that. I doubt we would nuke the hell out of them.
Click to expand...

the US would not invade China, they would just destroy China's ability to transport troops to Taiwan in an invasion. Which could possibly be done just using the US Navy and Air Force from Japan and Guam.
Click to expand...

But what is to stop China from launching missles at Taiwan? Not necessariy nuclear, because that would just turn everyone against them.
 
I don't think the US should step in like it did for Kuwait. The situation with Taiwan is different because their soveriegnty is debateable. Really, I believe the best course of action would be diplomatic at most....and this time with the UN...not just on our own.
 
Legally the US has to defend Taiwan if China attacks. It was enacted 10 April 1979, Taiwan Relations Act. This was passed when US moved official recognition of "China" from Taipei to Beijing (Peking).

As to whether China has legit "rights" to claim Taiwan as a province or not is debatable and changes with who you ask. If you ask my parents, no China has no claim on Taiwan. But if you ask people from mainland China, China has claim to Taiwan.
 
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