Poll regarding Obamacare

[soundforbjt]

You can blame the AMA for restricting the available supply, but they are not the ones adding 30 million new patients to a pool when there's an existing shortage or providers. The end result will be the same regardless: much lower level of care, much longer wait times to see a PCP, and much higher costs. Thanks obummer!

And thanks AMA, fighting to keep providers and competition low and costs & salaries higher.

 

[rudder]

Does anyone really know much about the details of any legislation before it is passed? People generally know broad strokes about what's going on. The ACA was subject to a heavily coordinated misinformation campaign for months however, so there was a lot of bad information floating around.

I bet you that Pelosi is eventually proven 100% correct.

Of course what she said was correct. Congress would have to pass PPACA to know what was in the bill. Congress did not know that they stripped themselves of healthcare until after the bill passed... probably because no one really analyzed it very deeply.

 

[fskimospy]

Of course what she said was correct. Congress would have to pass PPACA to know what was in the bill. Congress did not know that they stripped themselves of healthcare until after the bill passed... probably because no one really analyzed it very deeply.

Ooh, you would be a perfect example. Pelosi was not stating that Congress would need to pass the bill so that Congress would know what was in it, she said that they needed to pass it so that Americans would know what was in it.

Thanks for helping me prove my point though.

 

[monovillage]

Ooh, you would be a perfect example. Pelosi was not stating that Congress would need to pass the bill so that Congress would know what was in it, she said that they needed to pass it so that Americans would know what was in it.

Thanks for helping me prove my point though.

You say that like it's a good thing.

 

[rudder]

Ooh, you would be a perfect example. Pelosi was not stating that Congress would need to pass the bill so that Congress would know what was in it, she said that they needed to pass it so that Americans would know what was in it.

Thanks for helping me prove my point though.

Wow... my hack-o-meter just hit 11.

Well apparently Congress did not know what was in the bill so how the hell would Americans know.... why bother apparently you refuse to see the idiocy of Pelosi's statement... regardless of who it was directed at. I mean this wasn't a bill some about some minor nonsense... it is a major deal. That you would accept Pelosi's crass attitude when the bill was making it's way through congress astounds me... well not really.. you did spike my hack-o-meter just now.

 

[fskimospy]

You say that like it's a good thing.

I didn't say anything about whether it was a good thing or a bad thing, I was just correcting our good friend rudder while noting the sad state of information about the ACA out there.

 

[Fern]

Ooh, you would be a perfect example. Pelosi was not stating that Congress would need to pass the bill so that Congress would know what was in it, she said that they needed to pass it so that Americans would know what was in it.
-snip-

Didn't they work that thing out in private sessions?

Didn't they deliver the bill right before the vote?

If so, regardless of what she said, many in Congress didn't know what was in it until after it passed.

And depending upon how many of the actual rules are left to be fleshed-out by bureaucrats, nobody will know all the details until they're finished.

Fern

 

[fskimospy]

Wow... my hack-o-meter just hit 11.

Well apparently Congress did not know what was in the bill so how the hell would Americans know.... why bother apparently you refuse to see the idiocy of Pelosi's statement... regardless of who it was directed at. I mean this wasn't a bill some about some minor nonsense... it is a major deal. That you would accept Pelosi's crass attitude when the bill was making it's way through congress astounds me... well not really.. you did spike my hack-o-meter just now.

I seriously have no idea what you're trying to say. What I am pretty sure of however is that you didn't say 'whoops, I was wrong, thanks for the correction'. Members of Congress most certainly knew what was in the bill. You misunderstood a quote that someone else probably misinterpreted for you.

If you can't figure out why having those voting on Congress not knowing what's in a bill and why having people in America who are not voting on it not knowing what's in it are hugely different, I can't help you. (I can point you to the 'how biased are you?' thread though)

In case you've never followed my other postings on here, I should let you know that I'm nearly entirely contemptuous of the average American's ability to understand legislation. Americans don't understand ANY legislation.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I'm actually still stuck on how mandating that I give my money to a privately run health insurance company is socialism but I'm just dumb like that so I won't vote in your poll.

 

[bfdd]

And thanks AMA, fighting to keep providers and competition low and costs & salaries higher.

Take away their monopoly on who they allow to practice medicine, aka allow whom the fuck ever to practice, and you can do away with that. Or do you just want to central plan everything? That isn't possible you know. The world isn't SimCity.

 

[fskimospy]

Didn't they work that thing in private sessions?

Didn't they deliver the bill right before the vote?

If so, regardless of what she said, many in Congress didn't know what was in it until after it passed.

And depending upon how many of the actual rules are left to be fleshed-out by bureaucrats, nobody will know all the details until they're finished.

Fern

No, none of those things happened.

This just happened a few years ago, how have people's understanding of history become so warped so quickly? Don't answer that, it's pretty obvious considering that the warping always happens in a way that conveniently reinforces their already held opinions.

The original version went through the House on 8 October, 2009. The Senate then negotiated over it until finally approving cloture on 19 December, 2009. The bill then was voted on by the Senate 4 days later, being passed on the 23rd.

The vast majority of the bill had been in place for quite some time at that point, giving the Senate more than two months to look over most of its provisions. There were a number of amendments that took place in the Senate, but the mostly final language was present for quite some time while the Senate tried to secure the last few votes for cloture. After cloture, Senators had 4 days to process what were at that point relatively small changes in total language.

The Senate version was passed in its exact form by the House almost exactly three months later.

Which part of that process do you believe involved the bill being 'delivered right before the vote'?

 

[soulcougher73]

Yes, because all the good was taken out of it and replaced with items to line the current insurance companies pockets even more. Lobbyist win and people lose.

 

[Fern]

Maybe I'm thinking of complaints about the Stim bill.

Edit: Back to thinking the complaint was about HC and that's why Pelosi made the remark about knowing what's in it after it passes. My google-fu isn't working, too much stuff about HC in general to effectively drill back to that time.

Fern

 

[Ausm]

Didn't they work that thing out in private sessions?

Didn't they deliver the bill right before the vote?

If so, regardless of what she said, many in Congress didn't know what was in it until after it passed.

And depending upon how many of the actual rules are left to be fleshed-out by bureaucrats, nobody will know all the details until they're finished.

Fern

What Bills aren't hashed out behind closed doors that's a Right Wing talking point.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Nice troll thread, but it's sort of funny that it's turned into unintentional ownage of the OP. He has repeatedly talked about how things like this were hidden from people.

The question is straightforward and accurate. I'm attempting to ascertain who knew what and when. I'll have other polls to determine other particulars. Remember this is P&N and the only thing we can know is what this sample knows.

 

[soundforbjt]

Take away their monopoly on who they allow to practice medicine, aka allow whom the fuck ever to practice, and you can do away with that. Or do you just want to central plan everything? That isn't possible you know. The world isn't SimCity.

I never said or implied that, but thanks for playing. I'll guess you think just the opposite when it comes to unions.

 

[bfdd]

I never said or implied that, but thanks for playing. I'll guess you think just the opposite when it comes to unions.

I actually don't have an issue with private unions as long as there is no government enforcing their monopoly(which is currently the case in certain industries). PS I was a union millwright and fully support private unions. I do not support public unions because government is already a union so that makes no logical sense to me.

 

[sportage]

Well before Obamacare we had a system. It was called GREED, or better known as the "F### the sick" policy. Hopefully in Obama's second term, and a retaking of the house and senate by the democrats, and with the purging of all so called blue dogs, we can finally have universal healthcare. You know... like the real world already has.

 

[monovillage]

Well before Obamacare we had a system. It was called GREED, or better known as the "F### the sick" policy. Hopefully in Obama's second term, and a retaking of the house and senate by the democrats, and with the purging of all so called blue dogs, we can finally have universal healthcare. You know... like the real world already has.

That's a fucking stupid position to take.

 

[dank69]

The most amazing thing to me is that according to Repub talking points, Obamacare is a handout to the insurance companies and will also raise our insurance costs. How exactly does that work? We give them more money and in return they charge us more money because it costs them more even though we are giving them more money?

Handout:

Yep, as soon as it became apparent that Congress and Obama had no intention of reforming health care but instead were set on implementing a humongous giant handout to the private insurance industry, I figured out that costs were going to rise for everybody even faster than they were already rising in the pre-ACA world. It didn't take a rocket surgeon to figure that out. Private, employer-based health insurance is trashing the American economy, rendering us unable to compete in the global market place. Until we slay this beast we will continue for export jobs and face a dwindling standard of living. Obama and Congress sold us out to their big medicine campaign contributors.

But costs will go up:

Of course I knew health care would become more expensive for younger and healthier workers. I knew that because with this steaming pile of dung of obummercare legislation, EVERYONE's cost of care is going to go way up and the level of care is going to go way down. No surprises there.

 

[IronWing]

The most amazing thing to me is that according to Repub talking points, Obamacare is a handout to the insurance companies and will also raise our insurance costs. How exactly does that work? We give them more money and in return they charge us more money because it costs them more even though we are giving them more money?

Handout:


But costs will go up:

Two points: 1) I'm not a Republican. I'm a pissed off liberal who wanted a single payer system. 2) Obamacare didn't hand the insurance companies money, it handed them a captive audience from which to extract more money.

 

[dank69]

Two points: 1) I'm not a Republican. I'm a pissed off liberal who wanted a single payer system. 2) Obamacare didn't hand the insurance companies money, it handed them a captive audience from which to extract more money.

Ah, okay, my mistake on the first point. However I have seen Republicans make that claim out of one side of their mouth while claiming the increased costs out of the other side.

As for the second point, it handed them a giant pool of low risk people that are now forced to make regular payments.