Poll: Lower the drinking age to 18?

[Anghang]

keep it at 21...i know there are a lot of mature people out there at 18, but the number of immature outnumbers them by far...from what i've seen at parties where they have age requirements, the younger crowd contains so much more immature people, fights break out over very stupid shi!t...i'd imagine the amount of stupid sh!t happening would increase a lot if the drinking age were lowered to 18...all IMHO

 

[Linflas]

<< Many states did lower the drinking age to 18 in the '70s. I was pretty universal, states with the lower drinking age saw auto accidents/deaths in the 18-20 age groupe sky rocket. It was rationalized that learning to drive and drink at the same time was a fatal combination. This is what led states through the '80s and '90s to reinstate the 21 yr old drinking age. Accident rates have reflected the change. I am very surprised to hear that they are again considering reducing the drinking age. Perhaps we should raise the driving age to 21? >>


What you fail to mention is that the age limit varied from state to state in the 70's and prior. Some states did choose to lower it after the 18 year old voting amendment was passed but many others already had it there or some combination of ages depending on beer/distilled spirits. In my area when I was 18 we had Virginia at 21 for everything, Maryland county option varied 18-21, West Virginia 18 for all, Washington DC 18 for beer and wine, 21 for liquor. I guarantee one thing that happened when Virginia lowered its age to 18 was a decrease in cross border drunk driving.
Another reason comparing today to the 70's does not apply in my opinion is due to the vast change in the way we as a society view drinking and driving. In the 70's when I was stationed in Florida every liquor store had a drive through window. You could pull up and buy what was called &quot;Cocktail by the Drink&quot;. Example you could buy a pre mixed and retail packaged Screwdriver and they would give this to you along with a plastic cup with ice. If you were stopped for DWI the penalties were mild and no one much cared. This was not unique to Florida, you could do the same almost anywhere. We never got to see how 18-21 year old people would have responded to this because the crackdown on drunk driving occured at the same time the Federal Government forced states to raise the age limit. I suspect that they might have been a few percentage point higher in DWI incidents but not the dramatic numbers people are proposing here.

 

[thraashman]

I think the problem with lowering it to 18 is that there are alot of people who turn 18 their senior year in high school. they'd be buying alcohol for all their friends, or anyone who paid them enough. I've noticed that their is a maturity change between 18 and 21 and sometimes I think 21 may be too young for alot of the drunks I've met. I'm gonna turn 21 in a little more than a month, and I have no real desire to drink.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

I think many of you are pulling way much more into this decision than is essential. This is a case of the restriction of a basic personal freedom. Thats it. Drinking and driving is a completely different issue. It will still be wrong, and it will still be illegal - no matter how old you are, a DUI is a DUI. It doesnt matter that *perhaps* alchohol related deaths will increase - there has always been a price to pay for freedom. And frankly, I don't give a SHlT if some guy I never met drinks too much and wraps himself around a telephone poll. The government is not going to be able to tell this guy not to drink and drive... they have been trying forever. But you know who will? That guy's friends and family - the real people in control of one's moral education. Ok back to the point. Im a firm believer that what someone doesnt know cant hurt them. More specifically, if I can do something and no one else is either aware or affected by it, it should not be restricted in any manner, no matter how dangerous it has the potential to be to myself or others. Drinking a beer, smoking a joint, whackin it, owning (carrying) a gun, cutting my fingernails etc. all fall into this category as well as many other personal freedoms we take for granted. For the record, i drink occasionally, dont smoke pot, whack it... well thats none of your business, would never consider owning a gun, and dont cut my fingernails (i bite them - nasty habit). Just because I think owning a gun is an invitation for disaster (it is afterall an instrument designed for the sole purpose of killing), does not mean I dont think people should own guns. It means I think people should use guns responsibly and suffer the consequences of their irresponsibility. Okay, enough for now.


&quot;Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other &quot;sins&quot; are
invented nonsense.&quot;

-- Robert Heinlein

 

[HardcoreRobot]

<< i know there are a lot of mature people out there at 18, but the number of immature outnumbers them by far...from what i've seen at parties where they have age requirements, the younger crowd contains so much more immature people, fights break out over very stupid shi!t...i'd imagine the amount of stupid sh!t happening would increase a lot if the drinking age were lowered to 18 >>



I agree wholeheartedly. In general, I have no faith in the maturity of my peers, and as college student, encounter evidence on a daily basis to support this. But I have a question. Do you really think these immature, fight-starting assheads are going to START drinking if it is legal? Perhaps they will drink more if it is legal, or perhaps they will drink less, now that the element of rebellion is gone. Basically no one can substantiate any of these claims and whoever does is trying to justify some firmly embedded bias that they refuse to question.

 

[RossGr]

I have to admit that this whole issue buts stress on my general philosophy government should keep its hands off personal freedoms. In some respects I would have to argue for no drinking age, it would be the parents responsibility to teach their children to drink or not. This really raises some interesting questions. Some ways I would like to see the Federal gov restricted to international affairs, maintenance of the armed forces and not much else. Let the states regulate internal affairs as they see fit. Hmmm... maybe time for another revolution.~^

 

[HardcoreRobot]

<< Hmmm... maybe time for another revolution >>



Anybody else wanna privatize schools? (We can save that for another ineffective forum poll thread (argument))

 

[DaLeroy]

Hi, haven't really followed the whole discussion, but from it I understand that Americans aren't allowed to drink at all till they are 21???

I'm from Australia, we can drink in pubs etc at 18, but can drink before that in private etc. Driving age is 17 but you can still have a small amount of alcohol in you and drive then. Just seems strange that you can't drink at ALL till you are 21.....anyone care to confirm this?

 

[Cerb]

Why not just get rid of a drinking age altogether? That'd put the responsibility right where it belongs: friends and family.

If that won't happen, does it really matter what the age is? Not much.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

Illegal to possess, purchase, imbibe under the age of 21. There are some exceptions. Some states allow you to consume alcholic beverages under the supervision and control (eye contact i believe) of a parent/legal guardian (texas is one im sure). Ive also become aware or certain military exceptions as well.

Quick thing about the Jenna Bush situation part 2 - i go to school in austin and am familiar with the restaurant where she got in trouble (chuys). the owner is a very shrewd businessman and there is no doubt in my mind he did all he could (ie call 911 - like that was necessary) that he milked the situation as much as possible to make sure the name of his establishment show up on every newspaper across the country...

ok enough for me today - but ill be back at lunch break tomorrow

 

[OutHouse]

yip you got it DeLeroy.

In America we can not touch any booze until we reach the ripe mature age of 21.

 

[hpkeeper]

personally I don't really care what the drinking age is... I'm 18 years old... I have never had any alchohal... the stuff tastes like crap. But aside from that... all my friends are 18... they've all at least come into work once or twice hammered... it's not like they don't get access to the stuff... we do have friends that are over 21 that can buy alchohal, and even if there isn't one of those friends around, my friends are crafty enough to make their own Fake ID's, they have the tools. Often they do chalk their ID's which is the fastest way to do things around here... I have friends that do worse things than drink... one of my friends came into work today stoned. He had something like 7 bowls before he came to work... at least that's what he said.. whatever that means... I'm not in with the drugs. Alchohal isn't hard to get your hands on if you just try a little... personally I don't think there should be an age limit on alchohal... it's not like we can't get it anyways.

 

[lowfatbaconboy]

the prefrontal cortex doesn't full develop till around 21-22 and drinking before then can cause damage in the developing parts of hte brain

but if we did lower the drinking age and were like england people wouldn't drink as much and would drink in moderation b/c with it prohibited until 21 people think when they do get alcohol(well kids atleast) they needa consume as much as possible well over moderation

 

[sparkle]

I am 22 and say no. But not because I am bitter I had to wait.

The average person's body is usually not fully mature till around the age of 21, which has a lot to do with why they choose 21 as the drinking age.

 

[Phil21]

IIRC the legal drinking age in NEw orleans is 18. Why doesn't someone get the statitics from that city vs the entire US and see what happens?


-Phil

 

[Urinal Mint]

<< IIRC the legal drinking age in NEw orleans is 18. Why doesn't someone get the statitics from that city vs the entire US and see what happens?


-Phil >>


If you've seen The Waterboy you could easily tell what happens.

 

[bigd480]

bull$hit... &quot;personal freedoms&quot; are nothing more than privileges granted by the government... Do you have the peronal freedom to vote, drive, or smoke at 13? No.


<< I think many of you are pulling way much more into this decision than is essential. This is a case of the restriction of a basic personal freedom. >>


if you get hit by an 18 year old drunk one day, you may start to give a SH1T


<< Drinking and driving is a completely different issue. It will still be wrong, and it will still be illegal - no matter how old you are, a DUI is a DUI. It doesnt matter that *perhaps* alchohol related deaths will increase - there has always been a price to pay for freedom. And frankly, I don't give a SHlT if some guy I never met drinks too much and wraps himself around a telephone poll. >>


Again &quot;personal freedoms&quot; mean nothing... In this country you don't even have the personal freedom to kill yourself (they'll try and stop you)... If you want to be able to do anything you want at anytime then go find a country established in anarchy... Oh wait there aren't any...


<< More specifically, if I can do something and no one else is either aware or affected by it, it should not be restricted in any manner, no matter how dangerous it has the potential to be to myself or others. Drinking a beer, smoking a joint, whackin it, owning (carrying) a gun, cutting my fingernails etc. all fall into this category as well as many other personal freedoms we take for granted. >>


So if an 18 year old gets drunk and kills somebody he should pay the consequences, while the other person dies... If the government allows the 18 year old to do so aren't they partially morally responsible? I'd rather have a government that's trying to protect me...


<< It means I think people should use guns responsibly and suffer the consequences of their irresponsibility.

&quot;Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other &quot;sins&quot; are
invented nonsense.&quot; >>

 

[OutHouse]

I'd rather have a government that's trying to protect me...

Yea nothing like uncle Sam with his protective arm around you sheilding you from all the bad things. Boo Hoo

Im curious about New Orleans. I didnt know the drinking age is 18 down there. Im gonna have to look into some stats and post them here.

 

[Shmorq]

Yes... New Orlean's limit is 18. Because of this, I believe they get less aid financially from the Federal Government than they normally would.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< Yea nothing like uncle Sam with his protective arm around you sheilding you from all the bad things. Boo Hoo >>

Protecting us from Stupid assholes is more like it dipsh!t. You don't see whole groups of adults (over 21 ) going on drinking binges like you do Teenage Morons. The only reason some want the drinking age lowered is so they can go out and get hammered in bars. Most 18 year olds I know that drink only do so to get hammered.

 

[Red Dawn]

<< Yea nothing like uncle Sam with his protective arm around you sheilding you from all the bad things. Boo Hoo >>

Protecting us from Stupid assholes is more like it dipsh!t. You don't see whole groups of adults (over 21 ) going on drinking binges like you do Teenage Morons. The only reason some want the drinking age lowered is so they can go out and get hammered in bars. Most 18 year olds I know that drink only do so to get hammered.

 

[bigd480]

<< Yes... New Orlean's limit is 18. Because of this, I believe they get less aid financially from the Federal Government than they normally would. >>

it's probably 18 because they know it would cost more to police it and it would be very difficult... N.O. has enough of a &quot;real&quot; crime problem... Also, much of the revenue for businesses there in the Quarter would be alcohol sales so that probably plays a part...

 

[Linflas]

<< Protecting us from Stupid assholes is more like it dipsh!t. You don't see whole groups of adults (over 21 ) going on drinking binges like you do Teenage Morons. The only reason some want the drinking age lowered is so they can go out and get hammered in bars. Most 18 year olds I know that drink only do so to get hammered. >>


Most people I know continued this type of behavior until they got into a serious relationship or married. Age had little to do with it and to be honest I could not tell you now looking back what the motivation was. I do know we started to curtail it somewhat as the drunk driving problem began to be focused on in the early 80's.

 

[Red Dawn]

Actually you have a point Linflas. The only thing that would be different is that most people over 21 have jobs and other responsiblities that would curtail that type of behaviour plus most people over the age of 21 don't congregate in such large groups like teenagers do. There is also less peer pressure on those over 21.

 

[JonJon]

the problem isn't with the people that are 18 not being able to handle it, but it's the fact that now people in highschool will have legal access to alcohol and thus make it much easier for someone who is 16 who can't handle it to get thier hands on it.