Originally posted by: Sid59
The matter with that is for the reasons I have stated thus far. It was established with the intention of providing a holiday to seperate blacks from whites. Christmas has never had such intentions, and is meant as a time for everybody to enjoy the season. Christmas is completely race-free, while Kwanzaa is exclusively black
The birth of Christ was race free? I gotta look up the people who celebrated the birth of Christ. Maybe im thinking it's a religious thing.
Christmas doesn't have tags on it that says "White's only", whereas Kwanzaa is described as "an African American and Pan-African holiday" (taken from the official Kwanzaa website - said by the founder)
Christmas is no longer celebrated as teh birth of Christ. it's a testatment about giving and loving. "bringing family together and having good times"
"Kwanzaa is exclusively black"
I don't know where you live but in California, the Bay Area and specifically in the community i work in, Berkeley, Kwanzaa is not just a Black thing. It brings the community together. Whites, Blacks, Latinos, and Asians.
No offense, but CA is completely different from the rest of the world. Not saying that it is a bad thing... I did not know that Kwanzaa was celebrated this way, your point is taken.
If Kwanazaa wants to reach the Christmas status of giving and loving and "brining family together and having good times" then people need to adopt things.
The problem is, that Christmas already exists for this reason. If the goal of Kwanzaa is to reach the level of Christmas, then what other point is there in creating it than to provide a holiday which is for lack of a better term, black? The way Kwanzaa is portrayed everywhere in society these days is as a black holiday, because that is the principal upon which it was founded
Hanukkah brings family together and having good times. Is it a holiday? Isn't it exclusicvely a Jewish holiday? Granted that Hanukkah prolly wasn't founded by some "seperatist" looking for ways to segregrate Jews and Christians but it's still a holiday.
As I said earlier, it is unfair to compare Kwanzaa to most religious holidays such as Chanuka, as Kwanzaa is not a religious holiday.
All ethnicities have their own holidays. Are you trying to say that the holiday they want to find positivity in is no good?
I am not disagreeing with the existance of a black holiday, this is not at all about racism, On the contrary, I feel that the circumstaces of its creation and nature are out of line, for lack of a better term.
in which the founder of Kwanzaa stated in his own book, that blacks should "think black, talk black, act black, create black, buy black, vote black, and live black,"
Did you read the book or are you just pulling quotes out to fill your arguement? Do you know the reason he said such a thing? I don't but i would be interesting in checking the book out at the library and reading more on in. Because it's posted on the net, doesn't mean it has reveleance.
how much credibility does that first quote have?
That was a quotation made by the founder of Kwanzaa while he was the leader of a black national group which aimed to free blacks from white oppression by embracing their own culture and shutting out white influence.
...detailed in The Quotable Karenga, authored by Karenga himself. "The sevenfold path of blackness is think black, talk black,
act black, create black, buy black, vote black, and live black," the book states.
he psychiatrist's report stated, "This man now represents a picture which can be considered both paranoid and schizophrenic with hallucinations and elusions, inappropriate affect, disorganization, and impaired contact with the environment." The psychiatrist observed that Karenga talked to his blanket and imaginary persons and believed that he had been attacked by dive-bombers.
so a person who was diagnosed with paranoia an schizophrenia is the same person you're gonna blame? You are attacking his credibility of starting Kwanazaa but you didn't mention he was a paradnoid schizo? - all from the link you posted.
He was diagnosed with these conditions after he had created the holiday, when he was on trial for involvement in the shooting deaths of 2 Black Panthers by his US organizations
Kwanzaa - KWANZAA is derived from the Swahili word, KWANZA which means first fruits. -- objections to this definition?
KWANZAA "as a holiday of the first fruits" comes directly out of the traditoin of agricultural people of Africa, who celebrated and gave thanks for harvest at designated times during the year.
Each tribe or community in Africa would come together to sing, dance, eat and drink and celebrate the harvest of the first fruits and vegetables. The would bring food they grew or items they made to give to the feast.
so .. Kwanzaa, on it's own, the way it stands in ORIGIN, was not not founded by Dr. Maulana Karenga. He gets credit for adapting it from Africa to fit the African Americans of the 60s-70s. --- whats the problem with that?
His motives for taking this custom and adapting it to American black culture are what are being questioned. If this were simply a case of adapting a cultural tradition, that would be perfectly fine, however it is obvious that this is not the case
Again you have problem with the person who adopted the festivities of Kwanzaa with African Americans with the "INTENDED PURPOSE OF CELEBRATING AND ENJOY KWANZAA"
I would not have a problem with the holiday if it did not so blatantly stand for racial isolation. That's my opinion on the matter
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