sourceninja
Diamond Member
- Mar 8, 2005
- 8,805
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Except for the only actually fight we have on record is so sketchy we dont even know if bruce won or not against Wong Jack Man. Bruce was an awesome showman, that is why people remember him. He took what a lot of people were saying at the time and put a light on it. But he also left behind a horrible legacy of bad martial arts (just go to most Jeet Kune Do schools). He was not a professional fighter. You can't really belive that someone who is not a pro has a chance in the ring with a pro. Whats next bruce lee vs mike tyson? Bruce was alive in the time of the gracies, like other great martial artists he could of went down there and fought them. If he would of went down there, i'm sure he would of ended up training and adding jiujitsu to his skills. He could of fought Carlson Gracie who was fighting in the 60's and was undefeated in over 500 fights went on to train some of the best fighters in the world.
Would he of beaten Royce? In the cage I dont think he had a chance. Speed and power wouldn't stop him from getting taken down by hoyce when he got cornered. On the street he might have a chance at staying up and striking. But in the cage there is no where to run. Remember Royce is one of the worst the gracie family has to offer. Rickson, Carlson, etc are all much much better fighters.
In the end you bet on a fighter in a fight. Bruce was not a fighter. He was an a great showman and a decent athlete. All the quotes about bruce are simply because he died young and people wanted to cash in on his fame to make their own huge martial art empires. Thats why a lot of kung fu clubs still reference that bruce trained wing tsung (even though he didnt' train long and abandoned the art). Jeet Kune Do schools exist and talk about how bruce invented it and how it was the ultimate idea. Of course they dont mention lee had abaonded the style saying have a style at all was a problem. If bruce as serious about Jeet Kune Do i'm sure he would of seeked out and tested guys like Helio Gracie, the top judoka of the day, and aikido's O'Sensei. But he was an actor first and marital artist second.
Would he of beaten Royce? In the cage I dont think he had a chance. Speed and power wouldn't stop him from getting taken down by hoyce when he got cornered. On the street he might have a chance at staying up and striking. But in the cage there is no where to run. Remember Royce is one of the worst the gracie family has to offer. Rickson, Carlson, etc are all much much better fighters.
In the end you bet on a fighter in a fight. Bruce was not a fighter. He was an a great showman and a decent athlete. All the quotes about bruce are simply because he died young and people wanted to cash in on his fame to make their own huge martial art empires. Thats why a lot of kung fu clubs still reference that bruce trained wing tsung (even though he didnt' train long and abandoned the art). Jeet Kune Do schools exist and talk about how bruce invented it and how it was the ultimate idea. Of course they dont mention lee had abaonded the style saying have a style at all was a problem. If bruce as serious about Jeet Kune Do i'm sure he would of seeked out and tested guys like Helio Gracie, the top judoka of the day, and aikido's O'Sensei. But he was an actor first and marital artist second.
Gibson486
Lifer
- Aug 9, 2000
- 18,378
- 2
- 0
Go read (not watch) any Bruce Lee Biography (and not the one based n the US movie). All the details are there. He is a multidisciplinary martial artist. If you actually read his books, you'll see two things....1. he is a dirty fighter (lots of low hits, and he even displays how to use a trashcan lid in a fight) 2. His fighting method is very N-demensional.
Gibson486
Lifer
- Aug 9, 2000
- 18,378
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Bruce lee did not abandon the "style". He simply abandoned the name. he refused to have his art called by one style b/c that would go against his philosophy of fighting with a "style of no style". By keeping JKD, he would be limiting him self to the style of JKD.
He street fought quite a bit when he was younger, and he was one of the best fighters out there at the time when he started perfecting his techniques. With his philosophy on fighting, chances are he would incorporate BJJ into his fighting techniques and train harder than any of the other people. That being said part of the reason he died was because of training too hard. It is suspected that by training so hard, he slightly ruptured a blood vessel in his brain causing an aneurysm.
:roll: that shows how much you know.
- He was instrumental in getting sparring into Western martial arts.
- He was known as a street fighter and a hooligan in Hong Kong for a while.
- He taught by sparring with his students when he actually had a Dojo. He later closed it down because he felt people didn't truly understand his philosophy on Jeet Kun Do.
It is true. They even have video clips of him street fighting because his father was a film director and he had access to film equipment at the time.
QFT.
Film Directors would tell him to slow his moves down because the film wouldn't capture it.
I remember seeing a documentary of a comparison of a shot they tried to film before they told him to slow it down. It is really choppy and blurry because he moved way too fast.
He trained nearly all of his free time. The guy was a freak of nature. Sadly that dedication was part of the reason he died.
Ok if Bruce Lee lived forever and trained, he would have learned BJJ and would beat Gracie but you guys are retarded.
Bruce Lee in his prime had certain skills
Gracie in his prime had certain skills
Gracie's skills were unknown to Lee. Lee never saw them. On the other hand, Gracie fought many many standup fighters. Yeah they were better at the standup game but Gracie took every fight to the ground. There are easy ways to protect yourself in the standup game if you are that much superior on the ground.
Gracie would win easily
Technique > strength
Now if Bruce trained in BJJ then his athleticism would have been an advantage and he would own Gracie.
It is just a fact that BJJ > Jeet Kune Do(during Lee's lifetime)
Bruce Lee in his prime had certain skills
Gracie in his prime had certain skills
Gracie's skills were unknown to Lee. Lee never saw them. On the other hand, Gracie fought many many standup fighters. Yeah they were better at the standup game but Gracie took every fight to the ground. There are easy ways to protect yourself in the standup game if you are that much superior on the ground.
Gracie would win easily
Technique > strength
Now if Bruce trained in BJJ then his athleticism would have been an advantage and he would own Gracie.
It is just a fact that BJJ > Jeet Kune Do(during Lee's lifetime)
Forearm training is vital for regular hand to hand combat, especially in Chinese Martial Arts. If you know a Tai Ji instructor that knows forearm exercises and can do them proficiently, you should learn from him. My dad once brought a guy over, that he said was even better than him at martial arts (knowing that my dad is over 60 and trains like a MoFo every morning makes that statement more significant). The guy told me to grab him and put his arms in a lock, the guy was older than my dad and tiny. Being very strong and having strong forearms myself from training I figured it would be at least difficult for him to get out of that locked. He did a very slight movement with his forearm and had my upper hand in a bind. And because of this specific training the harder I would have held the harder the bind would have been.
************************************************************************
Yes training and experience will do that, but you have to realize that he started to perfect his technique as he got older. He did lose some streetfights as a kid though, but later on in life, he was undisputed as a great, great fighter.
Yeah, that government Martial Arts crap is a joke. It is mostly stylized crap, and not meant for real fighting.
**EDIT**
Of course to try to make it legitimate, they leeched a few different types of fighting techiniques from legitimate Chinese Martial Arts and made it stylized.
You fail to understand that Bruce Lee when he was older didn't like the competitive nature of Martial Arts. He started to say that martial arts and fighting was a reflection of yourself and your "self knowledge" (In other words Martial Arts was mainly to better yourself). He thought fighting and western sparring was just for show and was a sign of disrespect. Sparring on the other hand was a way to better yourself.
And the mention of Chuck Norris, even Chuck Norris was a good friend of Bruce Lee, and he highly respected the guys martial arts. I am sure they sparred before IRL, but Norris being the standup guy he is probably doesn't talk about it.
I am sure there are a few people that could fight him, Gracie included, but with Bruce Lee's training and philosophy. He would learn BJJ and take anyone down, even though he would only spar with them. He probably would even need BJJ because he was so fast.
**EDIT**
Another thing. A lot of great martial artists would not fight in competitions. My dad never fought in competitions, but he was a military martial arts instructor. He would go to parks in Taiwan and challenge people to spar though all the time. My cousins who were kids at the time would go a long with him (they would beg my dad to bring them along). My dad was a small child as a kid, that is why his father taught him and got some other people to teach him martial arts. He was also an unfocused kid, a lot like me as a child, so martial arts was good for him. He doesn't like competitions, but he did train a guy in the states to do competitions (I remember going to one of these matches with my dad and his pupil). A guy who lost a match to my dad's student tried to pick a fight with my dad. He threw him to the floor, and the guy backed down. Being a kid and seeing your dad throw a guy who was huge across a hallway really makes you think your dad is invincible.
There is a story of one martial artist (I will look up the name), who was being mugged by a man. Rather than fighting back, he chose to be passive and let the guy rob him even though this guy could have killed him (the man had made a pact of nonviolence).
Another story of a martial artist who was so well trained that when he went to sleep under a tree a student of his came to wake hime up to tell him something and on instinct and muscle memory he did a killing strike with his foot, and later found his student dead when he woke up.
Actually the 1-inch punch is an old martial arts strike. Bruce Lee never really fully mastered it because he was never taught it. It is a sternum kill strike if you are in a hold. Yes, it would break your bones. His 1 inch punch was not correct in how it was done, but it did show his incredible strength. It was more like a 1 inch push. Also, you will see that everytime he demonstrated this punch the person was supposed to hold something in front of him to lessen the sharpness of the blow.
Of course, maybe he perfected it later in life, but chose not to use it. If you practice the 1 inch punch, you are supposed to practice on a door or a sparring partner. The Sparring partner must hold something that will absorb the blow, like a telephone book at his sternum. I wanted to learn it myself, and in college I tried it on my doorway for a while. You get a bloody knuckle, but it does make you understand a little more how hard the blow actually is to perfect.
**EDIT**
First clip of Bruce Lee doing the inch blow
It might not be perfect because his stance is off from the traditional stance. He is using a ByJong stance for some reason, but you can see his 1 inch punch would still break bones if he used it fully on a person.
You will find in that same clip around the 1 mintue mark a good example of forearm exercises and sparring. At the 2:14 mark, too. The reason his fast strikes were incredible as well was because of his understand of movement in hand to hand. Because of these arm to arm techniques, people who practice it can begin to instinctually know what the other person is doing just by the slight changes in movement of just the persons forearm. Put together with incredible speed, there is practically no way of moving and hitting a person because he can feel (body listen <ting jin>) what you are about to do and react instinctually to it.
Bruce Lee Screen Test
He is asked the difference between Jiujutsu and Chinese Martial Arts at the 2:14 mark. Remind you, this is an early video clip when he was younger and hadn't perfected his body or his techiniques. You will see he doesn't use the ByJong stance, but the more traditional prone stance as well.
Bruce Lee reading a newspaper editorial about his teaching methods
Dan Inosanto JKD Expert
Bruce Lee locks and grapples shown by his favorite student
There were martial artists that would practice the one inch blow, get pissed off, and then just rip the telephone book in half.
with bruce's speed and power of his strikes, i don't think royce would be able to get close enough to take bruce to the ground
?Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless, like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.?
?Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless, like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.?
Dan Inosanto
He was one of Bruce Lee's star pupils.
**EDIT**
He was still a lot slower and less skilled than Bruce Lee though.
He was one of Bruce Lee's star pupils.
**EDIT**
He was still a lot slower and less skilled than Bruce Lee though.
middlehead
Diamond Member
- Jul 11, 2004
- 4,573
- 2
- 81
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