Poll: Do you care about ray tracing / upscaling?

[SolidQ]

Ray tracing won't become standard till the PS6 or Next gen xbox

i think it's come when need only RT card for running game, like Metro EE

 

[MrTeal]

That poll and this poll are quite different though. It's pretty reasonable to care about upscaling and raytracing even if your primary concern when buying a GPU is raster and value. All manufacturers seem to be moving in that direction, so even if you aren't turning RT on in games right now, it's something to pay attention too if you're a fan of hardware.

 

[Golgatha]

TPU poll makes my brain hurt worse. Over 70% of respondents say either raster or price are most important.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/next-gen-gpus-what-matters-most-to-you.326792/

In the comments is where my head is at. I want a gaming laptop that performs better than a 2070 mobile chip from 2019 in raster, has more than 8GB of VRAM, and doesn't cost $2k+. Unless you have a 4090 mobile, you don't have enough performance to play with RT and maintain high framerates in current games, and even then you probably need fake frames. Also, this marketing junk of calling a mobile part a xx70 or xx80 series and the desktop equivalent being one full step up in performance is just pure and utter nonsense, and part of the reason 8GB mobile parts haven't noticeably increased in pure raster performance for like 5 years at the roughly $1000-$1500 price point. After 5 years, I demand better raster performance for the same amount of money, or you don't get my money.

 

[SolidQ]

Found this C2077 PT Xess + AFMF2 7900XTX

 

[jpiniero]

and part of the reason 8GB mobile parts haven't noticeably increased in pure raster performance for like 5 years at the roughly $1000-$1500 price point. \

Just a quick look at NBC's results and the 4070 laptop is roughly 50% faster than 2070 in the games they tested. Although yes you do only get 8 GB.

I do expect Blackwell mobile to be a decent jump in performance above that (unlike Desktop). No VRAM bump though (for now...) and pricing will be very questionable.

 

[Golgatha]

Just a quick look at NBC's results and the 4070 laptop is roughly 50% faster than 2070 in the games they tested. Although yes you do only get 8 GB.

I do expect Blackwell mobile to be a decent jump in performance above that (unlike Desktop). No VRAM bump though (for now...) and pricing will be very questionable.

Ok, the 50% comment is objectively fair. I guess what I'm really more salty about is that when I bought my gaming laptop, there was barely a price premium over getting a desktop equivalent since the graphics chips were very comparable from both price and performance perspectives. Fast forward 5 years and I was looking at using the 2nd system in my signature versus upgrading to a different laptop. To get the same performance I got for roughly $1400 (excluding the excess storage because that's not even an option in a laptop) I have with my desktop, I'd have to shell out 2-3 times more money to get equivalent performance. Now, it was nice to travel with that laptop from time to time; just not an additional $2000 nice.

 

[jpiniero]

Ok, the 50% comment is objectively fair. I guess what I'm really more salty about is that when I bought my gaming laptop, there was barely a price premium over getting a desktop equivalent since the graphics chips were very comparable from both price and performance perspectives.

A lot of that is because of power consumption. 2080's TDP is only 215 W remember and the Super is 250.

Same deal with the consoles - PS5/Slim is 200 W or so, and that's at the wall.

 

[poke01]

This is how I want Ray tracing to be used.

Great game.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813197502411092186

 

[marees]

This is how I want Ray tracing to be used.

Great game.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1813197502411092186

Is this the future of Ray Tracing ?

The game uses a Vulkan renderer with zero shader compilation stutter and makes extensive usage of compute shaders to drive the rendering. Tiny Glade's diffuse global illumination uses software ray tracing, so it scales down to ultra low-end and older GPUs. According to the developer, the game traces against lower complexity proxy geometry and shots rays at sub-native resolution, with one ray for every 4x4 pixel grid. Like a lot of games using RTGI, such as Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition and Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora, rays first start in screen space, and then move out of screen space to trace against the proxy geometry in a BVH only when they need to. This further reduces costs and gives the game extra detail in the lighting in areas within screen space. To keep noise down, the lighting is encoded into a spherical harmonic to smooth things out and is simply denoised as a post process. Essentially, every part of the RTGI is just at the threshold of the quality necessary to fit the art style, which keeps performance up.

For specularity or reflections, RT is also used, but this shows up more seldomly in game, primarily on surfaces of water or ice. There, rays are traced into the proxy geometry again, but notably blended over with screen-space reflections. So if you move the camera up and down while using a camera closer to the ground (like in the game Teardown) you can see how most of the colour and detail from reflections is culled out of screen space and you see the lumpier proxy geometry instead. That does not stop the reflections from being handsome for what they are, but there are clearer visual limitations there than with the diffuse global illumination, which can be a lot coarser in detail before it starts to fall apart.

I think this game also goes to show that RT and high-tech rendering is not just for the AAA space or genres that chase photo-realism. It also ably demonstrates the power of custom technology and why bespoke engines are still needed in our day and age. I can't imagine an Unreal Engine game running this fast or this well without a tonne of work.

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...wer-of-bespoke-game-engines-and-graphics-tech

 

[marees]

Is this the future of Ray Tracing ?

The game uses a Vulkan renderer with zero shader compilation stutter and makes extensive usage of compute shaders to drive the rendering. Tiny Glade's diffuse global illumination uses software ray tracing, so it scales down to ultra low-end and older GPUs. According to the developer, the game traces against lower complexity proxy geometry and shots rays at sub-native resolution, with one ray for every 4x4 pixel grid. Like a lot of games using RTGI, such as Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition and Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora, rays first start in screen space, and then move out of screen space to trace against the proxy geometry in a BVH only when they need to. This further reduces costs and gives the game extra detail in the lighting in areas within screen space. To keep noise down, the lighting is encoded into a spherical harmonic to smooth things out and is simply denoised as a post process. Essentially, every part of the RTGI is just at the threshold of the quality necessary to fit the art style, which keeps performance up.

For specularity or reflections, RT is also used, but this shows up more seldomly in game, primarily on surfaces of water or ice. There, rays are traced into the proxy geometry again, but notably blended over with screen-space reflections. So if you move the camera up and down while using a camera closer to the ground (like in the game Teardown) you can see how most of the colour and detail from reflections is culled out of screen space and you see the lumpier proxy geometry instead. That does not stop the reflections from being handsome for what they are, but there are clearer visual limitations there than with the diffuse global illumination, which can be a lot coarser in detail before it starts to fall apart.



https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...wer-of-bespoke-game-engines-and-graphics-tech

https://twitter.com/x/status/1841480384812360166

 

[SolidQ]

Unreal Enigne 5.5 looks crazy

While playing old games they have superior image quality, compared today games.
NVIDIA PR

Fail from NV. More Detail?

 

[cherullo]

Very interesting video showing how TAA algorithms are garbage. Worse yet, other rendering algorithms are starting to rely on TAA to work properly, practically making it a requirement. Fake pixels win. Well played, nVidia.

 

[poke01]

Unreal Enigne 5.5 looks crazy

While playing old games they have superior image quality, compared today games.
NVIDIA PR

Fail from NV. More Detail?

Lol marketing blunder

Edit: both look bad. Look at the edge of the dome in the native pic, it’s more jagged but the DLSS has worse reflections but better dome

 

[Ranulf]

Very interesting video showing how TAA algorithms are garbage. Worse yet, other rendering algorithms are starting to rely on TAA to work properly, practically making it a requirement. Fake pixels win. Well played, nVidia.

Another video by these guys on Jedi Survivor and gpu optimization fails.

When Botched GPU Optimization is Eclipsed By CPU issues: Jedi Survivor Full Frame Analysis​

 

[SolidQ]

for me looks like TIE, some area DLSS better, some PSSR, but zoom edition is boring comparision

 

[DAPUNISHER]

for me looks like TIE, some area DLSS better, some PSSR, but zoom edition is boring comparision

If it holds up at lower resolution and FSR 4 is similar or better, cool. There will be basic parity in upscaling. One more marketing checkbox no longer left blank. Next will be non RTX optimized RT v. Nvidia sponsored games. Seeing how Redfall, Gollum, outlaws, and Alan Walks 2 are financial failures to date.Yeah man, RTX has the only playable FPS in games no one plays, congrats.

 

[marees]

If you're playing your game and sunlight is coming through your window onto your TV, you’re not seeing any ray tracing. It has to be super optimal, you have to have an 8K monitor in a dark room to see these things.

ex-Sony CEO Shawn Layden, who reckons that the console arms race has now played out: "It has plateaued. We're at the stage of hardware development that I call 'only dogs can hear the difference'.

DF Weekly: Xbox's new 6nm processor emphasises the console price challenges to come

Console cost reductions aren't making their way to gamers - and the whole concept of more powerful hardware is being challenged. Why?

www.eurogamer.net

 

[coercitiv]

Ray tracing time!

 

[marees]

Ray tracing time!

View attachment 110065

👇

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Reinforces my tactic of only using reflections in most games. It is by far the most impactful, and all of my RDNA 2&3 cards can use the feature and without tanking performance.

Metro EE was interesting as it looks much better than the RT implementation in the OG. But, and this made me chuckle, it looks on the same level as Red Dead 2 on how the presentation with mist and sunlight influences visuals at certain times of day. Even god rays in Fallout 4 looks better than the RT in the OG IMO.

Of course he fapped to the ones of titles that are RTX showcase games. The juice is not worth the squeeze. This 2 part series is to prepare for the 50 series launch. So they can show you how you wasted your money buying RTX 20-40 for ray tracing.

His speculation that ray tracing is about to take off, I agree with. Even console now has the upscaling and hardware support to use some of the features with playable FPS. Someone should quote him about 8GB cards in the vram thread too.

 

[poke01]

Reinforces my tactic of only using reflections in most games. It is by far the most impactful, and all of my RDNA 2&3 cards can use the feature and without tanking performance.

Metro EE was interesting as it looks much better than the RT implementation in the OG. But, and this made me chuckle, it looks on the same level as Red Dead 2 on how the presentation with mist and sunlight influences visuals at certain times of day. Even god rays in Fallout 4 looks better than the RT in the OG IMO.

Of course he fapped to the ones of titles that are RTX showcase games. The juice is not worth the squeeze. This 2 part series is to prepare for the 50 series launch. So they can show you how you wasted your money buying RTX 20-40 for ray tracing.

His speculation that ray tracing is about to take off, I agree with. Even console now has the upscaling and hardware support to use some of the features with playable FPS. Someone should quote him about 8GB cards in the vram thread too.

Come on you don’t know? The MoRe yoU buY the MoRE you SAVe. /s

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Come on you don’t know? The MoRe yoU buY the MoRE you SAVe. /s

Then all the gamers lining up for 50 series are about to save big!

 

[marees]

Someone should quote him about 8GB cards in the vram thread too.

Will listen later & take notes !!!

 

[coercitiv]

👇

The video takes the point across too: the only games where RT makes a clear difference are the ones built with RT in mind or heavily adapted afterwards. This reinforces the idea that RT will become really good only when devs build with this tech in mind, and this will happen when enough people have more advanced cards in their systems.

There's a paradox here, as the $300-400 cards from the new generations are likely to sport only tokenized perf increases to keep margins juicy. The "cheap" hardware will probably lack the compute to justify RT adoption at scale. Devs might continue to cater to the lowest denominator and enthusiasts will be playing with full RT enabled but mediocre artistic implementation for that level ot RT. If this happens we can always call it "the 8GB syndrome".

 

[marees]

Ray tracing time!

View attachment 110065

Summary screenshot (i have not watched yet)