Poll: Do you care about ray tracing / upscaling?

Do you care about ray tracing / upscaling?


  • Total voters
    161

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,674
2,824
126
Let's get a big poll running to see what everyone actually thinks.

"Upscaling" refers to any form of DLSS / FSR / XeSS.

NO to both for me. They're fine as optional side features, but they should absolutely never be pushed instead of legitimate hardware progression. I have a 2070 and voluntarily never use them aside from occasional testing.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,229
9,990
126
Well, I voted yes to both.

For one example, I sold a gaming PC to a fellow, if was one of my mining/gaming combo PCs that I refurbished for him.

It had a Ryzen 5 3600 CPU, Gigabyte B450 mobo, 2x16GB DDR4-3200, and a Radeon RX 5600 XT 6GB card. Running Win10 Pro. Also had a BR writer and 1TB SATA SSD.

All for the low, low price of $300, mostly because of it's mining history, I couldn't be sure how much longer it would last.

But he had an issue. He was connecting it to a 4K 65" HDTV.

He told me that he wanted to play FIFA '23. I looked it up, the recommended specs were a 2700X and an RX 5600XT. A nearly perfect match.

Yet, he said that the game was jerky/skippy. An internet search reveals that the game itself can have issues with smooth game play.

I had previously demonstrated running the Heaven 4.01 benchmark for him, it wasn't skipping, it was smooth, even at the highest settings.

I was going to have him run it at 1080P or 1440P, and use FSR to get 4K. I never got to sit on the phone with him and try that, though.

But I feel that the ability, through "software tricks" to "stretch the capabilities" of the base HW is useful, in some cases.

But it's kind of like, selling CPUs based on both their base and boost clock speeds.

We need new hardware, rated in both "Native rendering", as well as upscaled + fake frames.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StarFall

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,194
4,674
136
I voted both are important, but I'm not willing to pay Nvidia's prices, so I went with a 6800xt. Price is even more important.

I use upscaling in some games, as 5120x1440 is not easy to drive in modern games.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,229
9,990
126
It's really not all that unusual to have a high-resolution (4K UHD and above) display, primarily for desktop/office usage, but by the same token, may not want to spend the money or the size/power budget for a "true 4K native gaming card". Interpolation can fill that gap.
 

Timorous

Golden Member
Oct 27, 2008
1,538
2,536
136
Right now no to both but RT is going to be the future I just don't think it will be till PS6 at the earliest and current hardware won't cut it at all when that time comes.

Upscaling is a no but the TAA used in many games is shocking so a DLAA/Native FSR mode that uses those algorithms to replace the in-game TAA solution but not do any upscaling is a yes.

Also frame gen is a no. Would rather reflex or similar be used without to improve feel.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,151
11,686
136
NO to both for me. They're fine as optional side features
FYI: the way the poll question is formulated can lead to a situation such as mine where I disagree with your answer and still agree with you that they're fine as optional features.

I care about RT and upsampling, but I don't believe either of them should be baked in as mandatory right now. They're not that high on the priority list.

The hardware needs to evolve to a point where RT illumination can be handled by smaller GPUs, in the sense that developers will be able to build with global illumination in mind from day one, to calibrate the experience for RT knowing that most of the market will handle it appropriately. Until that happens we'll continue to get this half baked GI that is technically impressive but results in a different experience than game designers have intended. The best example for this is CP2077, where the latest RT mode changes the mood of the game for the worse in some situations. (while also being impressive in others)

Upsampling on the other hand is good enough today for people with weaker cards, including laptop owners. When used with the intention to save power (and thus fan noise) or help an old/weak card achieve playable framerates, it's just great. As time passes and everyone moves up ot higher resolutions, upsampling will only improve in quality. That being said, I assume we'll also get some NN based anti-aliasing methods soon, which should even the playing field for players using Native resolution.

As for frame generation, we need better techniques that improve perceived latency, not the reverse. Shockingly, it can be done:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Elfear

Timorous

Golden Member
Oct 27, 2008
1,538
2,536
136
It's really not all that unusual to have a high-resolution (4K UHD and above) display, primarily for desktop/office usage, but by the same token, may not want to spend the money or the size/power budget for a "true 4K native gaming card". Interpolation can fill that gap.

This is true. The way I handle it is to play older games or non GPU intensive games. Recently I have played Jedi Fallen order at 4k native, the outer worlds at 4k native and Skyrim at 4k native. All worked fine at 60fps on my 6600XT. I will be upgrading my GPU soon just waiting for the right deal to crop up.
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,674
2,824
126
Upsampling on the other hand is good enough today for people with weaker cards, including laptop owners. When used with the intention to save power (and thus fan noise) or help an old/weak card achieve playable framerates, it's just great. As time passes and everyone moves up ot higher resolutions, upsampling will only improve in quality.
But you don't need upscaling for any of that. We've been able to run games at lower resolutions for the last 30+ years. I played DOS games in the 1990s like Quake at 320x240 to get more performance over 480p.

And fast sharpening filters with fast post-filtering AA have been available for 15+ years. Likewise, Bluray players have been upscaling DVDs for 20+ years, no "aye eye" necessary.

Upscaling is nothing more than the Emperor's clothes. It's nVidia selling you overpriced tensor cores as a "solution" to a problem they themselves created: ray tracing, and con-artist VRAM.

As for frame generation, we need better techniques that improve perceived latency, not the reverse. Shockingly, it can be done:
nVidia will never back or encourage that because DLSS 3.0 locks you into their proprietary eco-system. Even Ampere owners aren't worthy of "the gift"(tm).

Also TVs have had motion interpolation for 15+ years. Then suddenly nVidia slaps the word "AI" on it and internet fanbois treat it as the second coming of the Messiah.
 
Last edited:

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
4,971
1,691
136
But you don't need upscaling for any of that. We've been able to run games at lower resolutions for the last 30+ years. I played DOS games in the 1990s like Quake at 320x240 to get more performance over 480p.
True. But getting the result scaled to the monitors native resolution* is a big plus for LCD panels. If you run a panel outside it's native resolution, the picture gets fuzzy and washed out very quickly.

CRTs where way better in that regard so long as you didn't run outside the shadow mask size.

*4K perfectly scaling 1080p output 1:4 is very practical.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,229
9,990
126
But you don't need upscaling for any of that. We've been able to run games at lower resolutions for the last 30+ years.
Your're talking about back when CRTs ruled the roost, and their natural scaling made nearly any resolution look good, with zero performance penalty.

LCDs are much different, and scaling to anything but the native resolution, using the display, looks awful. FSR is nothing more than setting "GPU scaling=enabled, scaling=full panel, with a sharpen pass", really. The functionality has always been 90% of the way there in the drivers anyways.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Super Spartan

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,483
2,352
136
No to Ray Tracing because it's a mixed bag for me, some things look better, some things look worse, and some things are about the same. I feel like a lot of the time game developers use it just because they can and never ask themselves if they should which results in gimmicky effects that do not add anything to the game. Combined with pretty big hit to performance that's a no from me. That's not to say it's always going to be a no from me, I do see potential in RT, once performance gets to the point where even low end cards can handle it with ease and once game developers learn to use it properly I think I will be good to have, but not right now.

Upscaling IMO can be useful in marginal cases. 4K/60 displays can be as cheap as $250 on sale. I have 4K display for productivity reasons. In the meantime videocards that can handle 4K without breaking a sweat cost 2-4x times as much. It's nice to be able to play at native resolution without spending a ton of money, it's also nice as a crutch to extend a life of a videocard in a pinch (like during last crypto boom craze). Yes, one could just lower resolution, but it often results in even worse picture due to the nature of LCD displays.

Frame generation is a huge no for me and it will always be a no for me.

True. But getting the result scaled to the monitors native resolution* is a big plus for LCD panels. If you run a panel outside it's native resolution, the picture gets fuzzy and washed out very quickly.

CRTs where way better in that regard so long as you didn't run outside the shadow mask size.

*4K perfectly scaling 1080p output 1:4 is very practical.
In addition changing native resolution to a lower one messes up desktop layout and open windows. It's nice not to have to worry about rearranging your applications to the way they were before you started a game.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
15,332
7,792
136
No to ray tracing for now, it’s just taking a long time to yield good enough benefits at somewhat sane prices. Yes to upscaling - it looks like a good way to extend the life of a video card as games get more graphically complex.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAPUNISHER

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,275
19,922
146
No to ray tracing for now, it’s just taking a long time to yield good enough benefits at somewhat sane prices. Yes to upscaling - it looks like a good way to extend the life of a video card as games get more graphically complex.
Voted the same.

Upscaling can mean keeping old GPUs out of the landfill longer, that's certainly a big pro. It isn't the only one of course. Being able to turn on system wide FSR on the Steam Deck is another.

For myself, having 2 Ryzen APUs, FSR and XeSS are great to have access to. Mostly for fun as I have better systems for modern games. But for that kid stuck on the $300 laptop their mom bought them for school, or for mini PC owners, they improve QoL.

RT as I have commented before isn't worthwhile. That is, outside of reflections, which I do turn on. Considering how well SSR, Planar, and other techniques do without as much of a performance hit, I could live without it. RT shadows often look worse IMO. Sometimes when Alex is fapping over them, I wonder if he has ever been outside in direct sunlight before. 🤪 When he talks about how much more realistic they look, it's facepalm worthy. I look at the oak tree in my backyard, and the shadows look nothing like the ones he is referencing. They in fact, look much more like the shadows generated with RT off.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
9,111
3,029
136
www.teamjuchems.com
I am going to abstain because I need a middle ground. If they are included, that’s great. And actually, I want them to be there - feature completeness being important to me on some level.

Buuut, they aren’t key to my purchasing decision. Like DLSS is “better” than FSR but they both “work” and I don’t use it outside of the steam deck where power per frame trumps all, so the difference is meaningless to me.

RT I want to be able to see what the fuss is all about, but the performance so long as “usable” is not a big deciding factor either.

So yea, they are both important to me but raster perf and perf per $ are going to drive my purchase decisions.
 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
4,352
3,154
136
upscaling can help old gpus and people with those old gpus play current games without a large performance hit. ray tracing... couldn't tell you the difference if it was on or off. it all looks the same to me.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,194
4,674
136
When playing 32:9 you really don't pay that much attention to the sides, so it doesn't matter if they are rendered in lower quality.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
6,806
5,769
136
I voted wgaf on rt but that upscaling is important. I run nearly every game I play with either fsr or rsr since I have a 4k panel, which I bought because I also wanted to connect my PS5 and that was before the PS5 supported 1440p output. No way I'm going to spend the money on a 4k gpu. I'm more than happy using a 6700XT to render 1440p, 1600p, or 1800p and let fsr or rsr upscale that to 4k.
 

ZGR

Platinum Member
Oct 26, 2012
2,052
656
136
I think upscaling looks awful over native and I think the current implementation of raytracing is a problem in the games I play.

Why would I want to go from 144fps to 60fps and go from 200W to 300W for some tacky ray tracing? Cyberpunk is a perfect example in my opinion.

I do believe in SSRTGI (Screen space ray-traced global illumination). It does increase power consumption to 300W though. It looks fantastic in Fallout 4 and Risk of Rain 2 while maintaining high fps.

I posted it before, but here is a good SSRTGI comparison (ignore the DLDSR word, DLDSR looks bad imo and this comparison is SSRTGI):

It really does look this good in supported gameplay. But is this Nvidia proprietary tech? Nope. NV teamed up someone named 'Pascal Gilcher' who has their own Patreon. This is the reshade article: https://reshade.me/forum/shader-discussion/5450-guide-to-ray-tracing-with-reshade

This works on basically any GPU too. I just prefer the Nvidia game filter overlay over Reshade's.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,085
5,618
126
Don't play any games that uses it. That will probably change and I'll certainly want to use it when it does. Eventually it will become important.
 

gdansk

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2011
1,988
2,358
136
Another generation or two before raytracing is worth turning on.
But upscaling I see as a useful feature to increase the longevity of GPUs.
 

Aapje

Golden Member
Mar 21, 2022
1,313
1,773
106
I don't care that much about raytracing for my next card. Perhaps for the one after that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StarFall

Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,331
1,139
136
No to both, mostly because of price. Ray Tracing is still in the infant development stage, varies a lot from game to game for quality implementation and in some games where it is great or very good, you also need upscaling to get a decent frame rate.

Upscaling is nice, especially for older gpu's but it is being sold as a must have feature solely to justify high prices for gpu's that can't run native beyond 60fps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StarFall and meanoc

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,599
5,340
106
I voted yes,

but I also not willing to pay the price now. Nor am I sure it is the raytracing on GPUs we are seeing now.

future tech.


as for frame generation, I can see a future for it, just not the DLSS 3.0 future.


The whole technique where the game engine itself generates fake frames (re-projection) as needed seems to make a lot more sense to me. Graphics quality is being given up, but it is all about reacting meaningfully to user input. Completely opposite to the intent of DLSS 3.
 
Last edited:

eek2121

Platinum Member
Aug 2, 2005
2,904
3,906
136
I feel like this poll will be biased. For starters, anyone who doesn’t have decent RT hardware (or haven’t played a proper game with RT) will vote no. Also, those that want to justify their purchase will vote yes.

If RT worked great on amy GPU from iGPU up, things would look very different. RT can produce far more realistic lighting and reflections than shaders ever will be able to.

Upscaling otoh is just a way to sell slow hardware.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mopetar