POLL: Bush v. Clinton

[Hulk]

Okay, you want to take this out, huh?

The welfare state created by FDR is the real root of our deficit problem. Sure, the country may have needed it then, but it has grown into an out of control animal used primarily for the left to prey on older folks come election time. FDR knew it would be a useful tool for his party for years to come. WWII did a lot more to pull us out of the great depression than anything Washington did.

We have GENERATIONS of people living off of that welfare state. Some use it as proposed, a helping hand until they can get back on their feet, but many abuse it.

BTW, how come JFK (the liberal god) cut taxes? Because he knew that's the ONLY way to stimulate economic growth. Before people can get out and spend, ie create jobs and revenue for others, they need money. It's not your or my $300 that does this, but a few dollars from millions of people that make the difference. Not to mention our gov is just to damn big and wasteful.

 

[Kevin]

Any war will pull the country out of economic problems. The economy turns into a war economy and the goverment starts spending and selling. The problem with social security is people rely on it to live rather than added income. Welfare is another thing that can work if instituted correctly. It should only last for certain amount of time then be withdrawn. During his term as Mayor, Guiliani started a Welfare problem that put people who were on welfare into city jobs. Instead of being happy that they were given work experience, they complained that they weren't getting paid as much as their counterparts!If they weren't doped up on crack and coke then maybe they could hold a job...

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Hulk,

I don't think you and I really disagree all that much about what the tax rates should be. We just differ about how to get there.

Government budget-outgoing eventually has to be paid for by incoming, agree ?

1.Spending- I think we should eliminate all wasteful spending too. But I know we don't live in a magic fairlyand. Any human endeavor, whether its in the government or not, is going to have some waste. In addition everyone has their own opinion about what is waste. Some people think NASA is a waste. I think it's one of the most valuable things we do. In the real world there is a limit to what we can save by cutting spending.

2. Social security and Medicare. Maybe you want to get rid of them. I don't.

3.Defense spending. I think we should spend more, mostly in pay and benefits.

4.Interest on the debt-Last time I checked this is where 1/3 of government spending goes. If the debt gets bigger interest rates will rise and there will be a double effect. I'm in favor of reducing the debt. If we could get interest payments down to say 10% of the budget we could actually afford some tax cuts.

edit-forgot to add that after the Bush tax cut we are going in the wrong direction, again.

What are your reasons for keeping social security?

KK

 

[mastertech01]

It would be interesting to see how prosperous the Clinton administration would have been if he had been in office during the WTC attacks. Well it would prolly be doing much better because he woulda shot about 20 missles into the desert and shrugged his shoulders. There would be far less spent on homeland security and airport security, etc etc. Its easy to hoard cash in the reserves when you have no national concerns pending. IMHO

 

[Tom]

"What are your reasons for keeping social security?"

I'm opposed to misery and suffering.

 

[JellyBaby]

I'm opposed to misery and suffering.

Then why aren't you in Africa feeding Ethiopians?

 

[classy]

I think the polls should be closed now. And a winner declared.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: mastertech01
It would be interesting to see how prosperous the Clinton administration would have been if he had been in office during the WTC attacks. Well it would prolly be doing much better because he woulda shot about 20 missles into the desert and shrugged his shoulders. There would be far less spent on homeland security and airport security, etc etc. Its easy to hoard cash in the reserves when you have no national concerns pending. IMHO

What are you talking about? How can you make speculations on what Clinton would / wouldn't have spent on homeland security? I would argue Clinton would already have been better off now than Bush because he wouldn't have cut taxes and thus given the gov +/- 1 trillion to use in the next ten years. *sigh* this speculation is annoying. There is no way you can say "Clinton would have fired twenty missles into the desert." True, he never lead a massive invasion (like Desert Storm), but incusions into the Balkans were very significant military action. I think it's rediculous to take a politician from even three years ago and throw him into a different situation and assume you know how he would react.

Hulk: How can you make the statement that cutting taxes are the ONLY way to stimulate economic growth? I mean, that's a really irrational, broad, statement to make. Wars have lifted our country out of more recessions than anything else I can think of.

 

[Hulk]

Dead Parrot -

Interesting, for the most part, even though our idealogy seems diametrically opposed, when we discuss individual issues, for the most part we agree. I've discovered this same trend when talking with many of my Democrat friends. This brings up a concern of mine. I am fearful that our two party system in itself is destructive since it tends to stereotype people into two groups instead of looking at individuals.

I don't want people to suffer and starve. I also am wary of giving too many hand outs that may ultimately create a cancerous dependence. This is a tough call and the broader the issues become the more difficult it is to solve. At the national level it becomes broad indeed.


Blinder Bomber-

I never said that reducing taxes is the only way to stimulate the economy but it is the most powerful means the gov has at it's disposal to make an impact on the economy. The prime rate is another one.

Creating confidence is another way to stimulate the economy. Nothing is worse for the stock market than uncertainty. 911 created a lot of uncertainty and was instrumental in sending stocks down. The 3 weeks of sniper terror a few weeks ago illustrates that, the market behaved erratically during that time period as well.

The situation in the middle east is bad for our economy from a confidence point of view. Bush backed off a bit and went through the UN. Iraq has breeched UN policy and will do it again, Bush is in a tough position. If he doesn't do something then he really geared the country up for nothing. If he does something, no matter how well it goes, he will be slammed. The point is that he and his cabinet know that security is vital to economic recovery.

Iraq and the middle east is crucial to our domestic economy. The Democrats just don't believe it. Again, a difference not in the ends, but the means.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
"What are your reasons for keeping social security?"

I'm opposed to misery and suffering.

what would misery and suffering have to do with eliminating SS. Atleast give us the opportunity to put our money where we see fit. What we do with it would be our decision then we couldn't blame anyone besides ourselves.

KK

 

[Tom]

"Then why aren't you in Africa feeding Ethiopians? "

I would be, but America's Funniest Home Video's is coming on.


"What we do with it would be our decision then we couldn't blame anyone besides ourselves."

Because when they cancel Social Security and you decide not to buy Disability Insurance and then you get Multiple Sclerosis, some sorry assed charity will be bugging me even more than they are now to hire someone to come to your house and change your Depends for you.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
"What are your reasons for keeping social security?"

I'm opposed to misery and suffering.

SS provides just enough to ensure misery and suffering.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
"Then why aren't you in Africa feeding Ethiopians? "

I would be, but America's Funniest Home Video's is coming on.


"What we do with it would be our decision then we couldn't blame anyone besides ourselves."

Because when they cancel Social Security and you decide not to buy Disability Insurance and then you get Multiple Sclerosis, some sorry assed charity will be bugging me even more than they are now to hire someone to come to your house and change your Depends for you.

But you are not obligated to give to any sorry assed charity. It'd be my fault if I couldn't come up with the resources to take care of myself. Social security is based upon socialism, and last time I checked we were not germany.

KK

 

[UltraQuiet]

In keeping with the absolute idiocy that has already been posted here, I post the following. Have fun.

The presidency of William Jefferson Clinton will be remembered for many things, not the least of which is a string of White House firsts unequaled by any of his predecessors.,

Clinton's remarkable record will also show that he is: ,

The first elected president in U.S. history to be impeached -- Dec. 19, 1998.,

The first president to be found guilty of a crime while still in office. (Leaking the private correspondence of Kathleen Willey in violation of the Privacy Act),

The first U.S. president to be publicly accused of forcible rape -- by Juanita Broaddrick, Feb. 24, 1999.,

The first U.S. president to approve the sale of sophisticated weapons technology to a hostile power while its emmisaries contributed to his campaign.,

The first president to be accused by multiple witnesses, including one under oath before a federal grand jury, of using cocaine while he was the chief law enforcement officer of his state.,

The first U.S. president to be accused of sexual assault on White House property -- by Kathleen Willey, March 15, 1998.,

The first U.S. president to order a paramilitary operation where a network television camera crew was punched, kicked, and forced to the ground at gunpoint to prevent them from broadcasting live video coverage. (Elian Gonzalez's abduction -- April 22, 2000),

The first sitting president to be the subject of a sexual harassment lawsuit -- filed by Paula Jones, May 8, 1994.,

The first sitting president to be held in contempt of court for lying under oath and fined by a federal judge (in the Jones lawsuit).,

The first U.S. president to order an armored assault on a church, resulting in the deaths of 55 members of the congregation along with 25 of their children. (Waco -- April 19, ,1993),

The first U.S. presidential candidate to accept financial support from a KGB spy. (Aldrich Ames -- $7,000, 1991, 92),

The first sitting U.S. president to be named in a federal criminal referral as a possible witness to and beneficiary of fraudulant financial activity. (Whitewater),

The first president to consult with Congress about combat troop deployment while simultaneously receiving oral sex -- according to Monica Lewinsky and Rep. Sonny Callahan. (Starr Report -- Sept. 1998),

The first U.S. president to have two senior administration officials die violently under mysterious circumstances while they were being pressed for testimony on assorted White House scandals. (Vince Foster, Ron Brown),

The first U.S. president to have a major cooperating federal witness against him die in prison while waiting to give prosecutors the testimony they later admitted would have led to first family indictments. (James McDougal),

The first U.S. president to launch unprovoked missile attacks on two sovereign nations. (Sudan, Afghanistan -- Aug. 20, 1998),

 

[Tom]

"The first president to consult with Congress about combat troop deployment while simultaneously receiving oral sex --"

How do you know he was the first ?

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
In keeping with the absolute idiocy that has already been posted here, I post the following. Have fun.

The presidency of William Jefferson Clinton will be remembered for many things, not the least of which is a string of White House firsts unequaled by any of his predecessors.,

Clinton's remarkable record will also show that he is: ,

The first elected president in U.S. history to be impeached -- Dec. 19, 1998.,

The first president to be found guilty of a crime while still in office. (Leaking the private correspondence of Kathleen Willey in violation of the Privacy Act),

The first U.S. president to be publicly accused of forcible rape -- by Juanita Broaddrick, Feb. 24, 1999.,

The first U.S. president to approve the sale of sophisticated weapons technology to a hostile power while its emmisaries contributed to his campaign.,

The first president to be accused by multiple witnesses, including one under oath before a federal grand jury, of using cocaine while he was the chief law enforcement officer of his state.,

The first U.S. president to be accused of sexual assault on White House property -- by Kathleen Willey, March 15, 1998.,

The first U.S. president to order a paramilitary operation where a network television camera crew was punched, kicked, and forced to the ground at gunpoint to prevent them from broadcasting live video coverage. (Elian Gonzalez's abduction -- April 22, 2000),

The first sitting president to be the subject of a sexual harassment lawsuit -- filed by Paula Jones, May 8, 1994.,

The first sitting president to be held in contempt of court for lying under oath and fined by a federal judge (in the Jones lawsuit).,

The first U.S. president to order an armored assault on a church, resulting in the deaths of 55 members of the congregation along with 25 of their children. (Waco -- April 19, ,1993),

The first U.S. presidential candidate to accept financial support from a KGB spy. (Aldrich Ames -- $7,000, 1991, 92),

The first sitting U.S. president to be named in a federal criminal referral as a possible witness to and beneficiary of fraudulant financial activity. (Whitewater),

The first president to consult with Congress about combat troop deployment while simultaneously receiving oral sex -- according to Monica Lewinsky and Rep. Sonny Callahan. (Starr Report -- Sept. 1998),

The first U.S. president to have two senior administration officials die violently under mysterious circumstances while they were being pressed for testimony on assorted White House scandals. (Vince Foster, Ron Brown),

The first U.S. president to have a major cooperating federal witness against him die in prison while waiting to give prosecutors the testimony they later admitted would have led to first family indictments. (James McDougal),

The first U.S. president to launch unprovoked missile attacks on two sovereign nations. (Sudan, Afghanistan -- Aug. 20, 1998),

Yawn

 

[optimistic]

The results look like the 2000 election! 50/50!:Q

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: classy
I think the polls should be closed now. And a winner declared.

But i think that every vote should be counted....

 

[jinduy]

Clinton 0wnz j00!

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Hulk
SuperTool -

You are really quite a tool. I assume that you actually LIVED through the '70's? The late seventies were a nightmare, not caused by Carter (OPEC was the major problem causing US auto manufacturers to make changes faster than they were capable), but inflamed by Carter since he didn't do anything to help the situation. Tax increases was the wrong thing to do.

The Reagan recovery was still being felt during the mid '90's.

I was born in 1980. Reagan tax cuts are not sustainable and reckless as evidenced by exploding debt. I can create "prosperity" with a credit card too. But when time comes to pay the bills, the "prosperity" goes out of the window. Noone likes paying taxes, just like noone likes paying credit card bills.
Clinton's answer was to pay down the debt. Reagan/Bush/Bush answer was/is to increase the credit limit and go into more debt.

It is not the tax cuts, it is the out of control spending.

And whose fault is that? If the president keeps pushing for tax cuts and fails to control spending, he is responsible for the resulting fiscal debacle.

 

[damiano]

I want a recount!!!

 

[minus1972]

wow...almost even.

 

[PlatinumGold]

not counting the "just show results" people, clinton stands at 49% (135/275) and Bush stands at 45.45% (125/275).

elections have been won on less of a margin. popular votes of that margin usually end up in electoral vote landslides.

so there you have it, Clinton by a Landslide.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
not counting the "just show results" people, clinton stands at 49% (135/275) and Bush stands at 45.45% (125/275).

elections have been won on less of a margin. popular votes of that margin usually end up in electoral vote landslides.

so there you have it, Clinton by a Landslide.

Hardly a landslide.

 

[AgentDib]

Don't forget to subtract the 10 anandtech members who have passed away yet still managed to vote for the democrat.