POLL: Bush v. Clinton

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Tominator
CLINTON WINS!

Hows THAT for a Sunday Morning Headline?:disgust:

Next time someone says that ATOT is Conservative I'll just point out this 'election!'

Just imagine how badly Bush would have been beaten if he had faced Clinton instead of Gore in the last Presidential Election

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: Tominator
CLINTON WINS!

Hows THAT for a Sunday Morning Headline?:disgust:

Next time someone says that ATOT is Conservative I'll just point out this 'election!'

Well alot of people said, "I'm conservative, but I like Clinton."

 

[Geekbabe]

Clinton,Between TV and newspaper reports of his sexual escapades and his marvoulous public speaking abilities At least I got some entertainment value for my tax dollar when he was President.

 

[Tominator]

Originally posted by: BDawg

Originally posted by: Tominator
CLINTON WINS!

Hows THAT for a Sunday Morning Headline?:disgust:

Next time someone says that ATOT is Conservative I'll just point out this 'election!'

Well alot of people said, "I'm conservative, but I like Clinton."

I would argur that if you claimed to be conservative AND liked Clinton, you've no business claiming to be conservative! That's like being black and voting for a KKK member....:Q

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: BDawg

Originally posted by: Hulk
Finally.

There can be no liberal talk radio because political talk radio (unlike TV talk shows) is based on logic. Name calling and finger pointing, unfortunately for the liberals, don't qualify as logic. In fact, to quote Spock, "the torrential flow of illogic from the liberal mind is quite facinating." Okay, I changed it a bit. Liberal argument break down under facts, and other than taxing and spending, they have no new plans or ideas to discuss.

Good night all!

Rush Limbaugh is based on logic? Sean Hannity is based on logic? LOL!!!

Both of those are based on one thing. Making money.

BDawg, have you EVER listened to Rush or Hannity, if you have you must not have the brain cells to understand what the hell was going on. I don't see no freakin liberal making money by doing a show. Oh wait, they can't they have no basis to run a show off of. All it would be is some idiot pointing out how baaad the republicans are, the people only can take so much of it before they turn kinda like what happened in this prior election.

KK

 

[Kevin]

How about the White Water scandal that sent some of his business partners to jail? I do believe Clinton's punishment was getting disbarred in Arkansas. There's deregulation which caused the power crisis in California. Pretty soon Verizon will take over the country and we'll be back to AT&T times. Again, Clinton wasn't a bad president, but he's no better than anyone else. And are we forgetting he turned the White House into a Hotel?

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth

Originally posted by: Hulk
One more thing.

A question for the libs.

I'm a high school teacher. I pay over 50% of my salary in state and federal taxes. You're telling me that isn't enough? How much do I have to pay for it to be enough?

The top few percent of the population in this country pay over HALF our tax burden, that's NOT enough either?

Yeah, I got less back than (in tax rebates) someone who makes $600,000/year, that person also paid a hell of a lot less than me. If you look at the percentages that person still PAID a lot more. I'm not mad or angry at them for being successful, good for them, I don't feel the need to "steal" it back from them in the name of my poor bleeding heart.

So how much should I pay? 60%, 70%, 80%. Maybe we should just go communist instead of socialist like we are now.

Pollution and conservation? The GOP is destroying the environment. No, every person that drives a gas hogging vehicle and wastes energy is ruining the environment. You don't vote for the environment every 4 years, vote liberal and cheerfully drive away with a smile on your face like you did your thing for the Earth. NO, you vote for the environment EVERY DAY through your actions.

I guess I'm one of the "rich elite" that benefits from the GOP's agenda. Yeah, right.

Ah, a person who is paid by taxes complaining about taxes!

Bush has reduced taxes and increased military and "home land securtiy" spending, so guess where he is going cut funding.
Could it be education?
Anyone remember when Reagan tried to save money by having ketchup to made a school lunch vegetable?
If I remember the good old Reagan days either you, a teacher, will not have a job so no taxes! Or you will be too busy to complain about paying taxes with the extra 10-15 students in your class room.

Is that bad he is paid by taxes and is complaining about them? I think everyone has the right to complain about having to pay taxes. It's a whole lot better than people not paying taxes asking what the taxpayers can do for them. These are the kind of people the democrats try to push to go to the polls.


KK

 

[Ornery]

Originally posted by: Tominator
CLINTON WINS!

Hows THAT for a Sunday Morning Headline?:disgust:

Next time someone says that ATOT is Conservative I'll just point out this 'election!'

Too bad for the Dems, that their base doesn't bother to get off their asses to register and vote in the real elections. Too lazy to start their own businesses, too lazy to work and too lazy to vote. Hah! There is justice after all!

Poll: Will you vote tomorrow? Tripleshot 11/04/2002 3:41 PM

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: KK

Originally posted by: BDawg

Originally posted by: Hulk
Finally.

There can be no liberal talk radio because political talk radio (unlike TV talk shows) is based on logic. Name calling and finger pointing, unfortunately for the liberals, don't qualify as logic. In fact, to quote Spock, "the torrential flow of illogic from the liberal mind is quite facinating." Okay, I changed it a bit. Liberal argument break down under facts, and other than taxing and spending, they have no new plans or ideas to discuss.

Good night all!

Rush Limbaugh is based on logic? Sean Hannity is based on logic? LOL!!!

Both of those are based on one thing. Making money.

BDawg, have you EVER listened to Rush or Hannity, if you have you must not have the brain cells to understand what the hell was going on. I don't see no freakin liberal making money by doing a show.
KK

Actually, I listen to Hannity every Monday and Wednesday afternoon on my way to class. At 6:00 when that goes off, I switch to NPR.

The only people who make Hannity seem well thought out and rational are his callers. They really dredge the bottom of the east river for that crowd.

Oh wait, they can't they have no basis to run a show off of. All it would be is some idiot pointing out how baaad the republicans are, the people only can take so much of it before they turn kinda like what happened in this prior election.

That's exactly what Rush and Hannity with Democrats.

 

[cmdavid]

Originally posted by: ncircle
Bush 2004
Powell 2008.

or Rudy Guliani in '08....

edit: although I doubt he'll be running.... YET...

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: kevin000
How about the White Water scandal that sent some of his business partners to jail? I do believe Clinton's punishment was getting disbarred in Arkansas. There's deregulation which caused the power crisis in California. Pretty soon Verizon will take over the country and we'll be back to AT&T times. Again, Clinton wasn't a bad president, but he's no better than anyone else. And are we forgetting he turned the White House into a Hotel?

Has any president paid off the deficit aside from Clinton in recent decades? He is not the same as everyone else. And if you don't think Bush is whoring the presidency the same way Clinton did, you are very naive.

 

[Tom]

Tominator said-

"You were evidently NOT involved in the Transportation Industry "

actually, I used to be a truck driver and some of my family members were/still are involved in transportation. If I remember correctly there was a short term effect like you describe, but shortly after that the price of oil went down a greater amount than the amount of the tax increase. I can't claim that Clinton was responsible for that, maybe he was just lucky.

Actually the price of fuel has gone up a lot more under Bush, and we know what business he used to be in..

 

[Hulk]

SuperTool -

You are really quite a tool. I assume that you actually LIVED through the '70's? The late seventies were a nightmare, not caused by Carter (OPEC was the major problem causing US auto manufacturers to make changes faster than they were capable), but inflamed by Carter since he didn't do anything to help the situation. Tax increases was the wrong thing to do.

The Reagan recovery was still being felt during the mid '90's.




Dr Smooth -

So, because I am paid by taxes I shouldn't have a voice, right? If you want to make personal attacks against people in the forum that's fine, I'm talking about politics.

I HATE the current education system. I hate tenure, pay steps, everybody should be paid based on the job they do. Let the P and VP determine my and all teachers salary. All the teachers complain when I mention this. They say, "what if you don't get along with the P or VP?" I say though, everybody else has to get along with their bosses, why should teachers be insulated? You can't have it both ways, guaranteed salary increases and tenure. It's a drag on the whole education system.

BTW, you don't have to worry about me spewing politics to my Chemistry/Physics students. I allow intelligent discussion of both sides in my classroom, we have pro nuclear vs anti nuclear debates and such. I encourage critical thinking, yes in science classes, it's very important. I actually agree more with liberals than conservatives on the environment.

Too many of my college profs regulary spewed forth liberal vomit. Luckily I only had to endure them in a few liberal arts based classes, that is until graduate school... but that's another story.

 

[etech]

Dead Parrot Sketch

Actually the price of fuel has gone up a lot more under Bush, and we know what business he used to be in..

Would you care to explain
1) How Pres. Bush has caused the price of fuel to go up a lot more?
2) What the price of gasoline is now and compared to 2, 5 and 10 years ago?


Innuendo is suck.

 

[Tom]

I winked when I said that, Etech, maybe you didn't catch the wink.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Hulk
SuperTool -

You are really quite a tool. I assume that you actually LIVED through the '70's? The late seventies were a nightmare, not caused by Carter (OPEC was the major problem causing US auto manufacturers to make changes faster than they were capable), but inflamed by Carter since he didn't do anything to help the situation. Tax increases was the wrong thing to do.

The Reagan recovery was still being felt during the mid '90's.

I was born in 1980. Reagan tax cuts are not sustainable and reckless as evidenced by exploding debt. I can create "prosperity" with a credit card too. But when time comes to pay the bills, the "prosperity" goes out of the window. Noone likes paying taxes, just like noone likes paying credit card bills.
Clinton's answer was to pay down the debt. Reagan/Bush/Bush answer was/is to increase the credit limit and go into more debt.

 

[ultimatebob]

Gee, I noticed that Bush is catching up! Someone should check to see if Torminator created.... say.... 40 new accounts today

 

[Tom]

Hulk said-

"A question for the libs.

I'm a high school teacher. I pay over 50% of my salary in state and federal taxes. You're telling me that isn't enough? How much do I have to pay for it to be enough?"


I don't know how you pay 50% in taxes, your state taxes must be mighty high. If you are including FICA taxes, I consider Social Security and Medicare an important safety net for retirement and/or disability so I don't consider it a tax per se. Having said that I think the income level it applies to should be raised.

What Federal income tax rate did you pay before and after the Bush tax rate ? I would bet it didn't change all that much, but the affect on the deficit is beyond huge. And that will eventually cost you even more.

 

[Kevin]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: kevin000
How about the White Water scandal that sent some of his business partners to jail? I do believe Clinton's punishment was getting disbarred in Arkansas. There's deregulation which caused the power crisis in California. Pretty soon Verizon will take over the country and we'll be back to AT&T times. Again, Clinton wasn't a bad president, but he's no better than anyone else. And are we forgetting he turned the White House into a Hotel?

Has any president paid off the deficit aside from Clinton in recent decades? He is not the same as everyone else. And if you don't think Bush is whoring the presidency the same way Clinton did, you are very naive.

Every president makes money off their presidency, thats a given. Clinton went a little too far because he thought he was indistructable. I don't think people cared that he had an affair with Monica, I think people were just surprised that the leader of the free world couldn't get something a little more attractive.

Actually the price of fuel has gone up a lot more under Bush, and we know what business he used to be in..

I don't think any president should be blamed on fuel prices as much as the general public should. People aren't driving hybrid cars that get 50 MPG, they drive SUVs that get 15 MPG. That plays a significant role in gasoline pricing called supply and demand...

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
Hulk said-

"A question for the libs.

I'm a high school teacher. I pay over 50% of my salary in state and federal taxes. You're telling me that isn't enough? How much do I have to pay for it to be enough?"


I don't know how you pay 50% in taxes, your state taxes must be mighty high. If you are including FICA taxes, I consider Social Security and Medicare an important safety net for retirement and/or disability so I don't consider it a tax per se. Having said that I think the income level it applies to should be raised.

What Federal income tax rate did you pay before and after the Bush tax rate ? I would bet it didn't change all that much, but the affect on the deficit is beyond huge. And that will eventually cost you even more.

It all depends on where you teach. Income taxes are not adjusted for cost of living in an area. I am not shocked that 50% of a persons income anywhere is going to some sort of taxes.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: Hulk
SuperTool -

You are really quite a tool. I assume that you actually LIVED through the '70's? The late seventies were a nightmare, not caused by Carter (OPEC was the major problem causing US auto manufacturers to make changes faster than they were capable), but inflamed by Carter since he didn't do anything to help the situation. Tax increases was the wrong thing to do.

The Reagan recovery was still being felt during the mid '90's.

I was born in 1980. Reagan tax cuts are not sustainable and reckless as evidenced by exploding debt. I can create "prosperity" with a credit card too. But when time comes to pay the bills, the "prosperity" goes out of the window. Noone likes paying taxes, just like noone likes paying credit card bills.
Clinton's answer was to pay down the debt. Reagan/Bush/Bush answer was/is to increase the credit limit and go into more debt.

It is not the tax cuts, it is the out of control spending.

 

[Hulk]

Tool and Sketch -


I pay some at 28%, some at the next tax level, 7.5% FICA, 7.5% SS etc.., 6% State (remember that paying taxes ON taxes), property taxes (BTW, that pays my salary, not state or fed). Believe me, it's over half my gross.

We obviously aren't going to agree on this. I don't know what the point is, really. Whenever liberal views make me upset I just tell myself, "hey, they really think this is best for everyone." Fine, I can agree that my views my not always be right, but I still hold them to be self evident and true until proven otherwise. I don't think Clinton paid down the debt, he cooked the books and we're just discovering that now. Unfortunately the Bush administration is not one to place blame, they just try to create solutions.

I just don't think raising taxes and spending is a solution. Fiscal responsibility is the solution. I see so much waste in the public school system but nothing can be done because some people would be out of work, ie they would have to find other jobs, real jobs where they are doing something. Ahh, the problem is so complicated and it actually starts at home.

Anyway, the bottom line is that Bush has two years to make good on his new found power. If he can't, then you will get your turn again.

 

[Tom]

CARTER inherited a very sick economy from NIXON and FORD. I don't suppose anyone hear remembers that NIXON imposed wage and price controls which kept the marketplace from working ? When they were removed we ended up in a recession with double-digit inflation.

What Carter did was get things back on track, but it was painful. People don't like pain so they elected Reagan who nearly wrecked our country by saddling us with a gigantic debt caused by his stupid tax cuts and lax regulation of the S&L industry. In fact the long term effects of Reagan our still with us and now thanks to Bush we may never get over them.

One of these days the reality of our situation is going to bite us. We can't afford to have 5,6,10 trillion dollars of debt.

 

[Kevin]

Thats because we forgive debts of foreign countries but none of them ever give us a break. Its like a double standard that keeps screwing us...

 

[Tom]

Hulk,

I don't think you and I really disagree all that much about what the tax rates should be. We just differ about how to get there.

Government budget-outgoing eventually has to be paid for by incoming, agree ?

1.Spending- I think we should eliminate all wasteful spending too. But I know we don't live in a magic fairlyand. Any human endeavor, whether its in the government or not, is going to have some waste. In addition everyone has their own opinion about what is waste. Some people think NASA is a waste. I think it's one of the most valuable things we do. In the real world there is a limit to what we can save by cutting spending.

2. Social security and Medicare. Maybe you want to get rid of them. I don't.

3.Defense spending. I think we should spend more, mostly in pay and benefits.

4.Interest on the debt-Last time I checked this is where 1/3 of government spending goes. If the debt gets bigger interest rates will rise and there will be a double effect. I'm in favor of reducing the debt. If we could get interest payments down to say 10% of the budget we could actually afford some tax cuts.

edit-forgot to add that after the Bush tax cut we are going in the wrong direction, again.