POLL: AA and diversity

[Satchel]

Originally posted by: DanceMan

Originally posted by: Satchel

Originally posted by: DanceMan

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: DanceMan

Originally posted by: Vic
PC'ers don't like being forced to admit that AA (and similar forced diversity programs) are inherently racist because they (these programs) begin with the assumption that minorities are incapable of acheiving on their own merit.

That's incorrect -- you really don't know the true definition of AA. You are more describing quotas. Yes, there is a difference.

DanceMan

Well I am no more informed by incorrect than I was by the bald assertion of what the assumption behind AA was. I disagree with Vic too in this way. I believe that the assumption I would call a fact behind AA is that many minorities, far from not being able to achieve on their own merits, have actually suffered massively more damage to their belief in their merit than most other people. This is because minorities and especially blacks have been subjected to intense bigoted hate for centuries and have had their families and cultural values ripped apart, on average. AA is an attempt to redress the destruction that was done. The problem, of course, is that self esteem problems are hard to fix because nobody will admit to having them. And nothing pisses off those who feel worthless more than the thought that some other worthless-feeling person is getting help. "I feel worthless, God Damn it, I will never admit to myself, and I made it all on my own; why can't that other worthless son of a bitch do the same."

We all feel absolutely worthless deeply hidden within, but the absolute magnitude of the damage we suffered runs up and down a scale.

Oh BS. There are more poor "white trash" (most of whom have been that way for generations) in the US than there are black people. When do they get their redress?

Point being, you can't fix a person's self-esteem problem by giving them a free ride. "Here, we all know you don't deserve it *wink*wink*" Yeah, that works...

The problem is that people think that discrimination has only economic consequences. It has socio-economic consequences, and that is what is addressed by AA.

By the way, AA is not race (or any other category) specific. As a matter of fact, white people benefit from AA more than any other protected catagory.

DanceMan

Prove it.

Edited: Somehow, it posted before I wanted it to!

I'm not sure which you're asking me to prove, but's let's take each statement that I made above:

1) AA is not race or any category specific. That's tough to prove, but as I learned it (as part of a corporate training class), this is the definition that I know: When there are two candidates that are equally qualified, the underrepresented person shoud be given the consideration. I see a lot of definitions with the word 'minority' instead of 'underrepresented', but even in this case, I still think it works, because white people can be in the minority, too, depending on the situation. And we do see this happening in a number of cases. I have always stated that AA should be applied in this cases also.

2) As for how white people benefit more from AA than any other protected class, here's the response that I gave to a previous P&N forum discussion on AA:

As to how white people mostly benefit from AA, a little known fact is that white (or any) females are covered by AA guidelines. This is a very important concept to understand. There are slightly more females than males in the U.S. population, therefore AA actually applies to the majority of the population -- not just some small minority segment, as many people believe. Secondly, having women (white or otherwise) in the workforce has had a profound impact on our economy and society. It has been said that women have been an integral part of the 80's and 90's economic boom. Working women have allowed families to afford (and spend more) with two-incomes rather than one, and all of the benefits (and as some point out, drawbacks) that that entails. And, very recently we have now seen a crop of women CEO's that have done well leading Fortune 500 companies. Well, although they might be very talented and capable, they owe a lot of success to AA. Finally, realizing this, this should squelch the feeling that many white males have that they will be passed over for employment, promotions or education for an un-qualfied minority. They would be more statistically likely to be passed over for a white female than any other AA-represented person.

DanceMan

1) After reading this I have a better understanding of why you made the original comments that you did. It's not because you've made any kind of a compelling argument, it's because I now know that you're knowledge of AA comes from a "corporate training class." :roll: You say "white people can be in the minority, too, depending on the situation." How is this possible? Have the demographics of the United States changed dramatically in the last few days? If you're seriously implying that if three equally qualified applicants apply for a position and two of the applicants are black and one of them is white then the white is the minority, then you're understanding of AA is truly lacking.

2) So when you said "white people benefit from AA more than any other protected catagory[sic]." you really meant to say all women everywhere? Because that is the only way that your argument could possibly hold water, and it's a stretch even then. If you want to change your original statement from "white people" to "white women" that's fine, I don't have a problem with that. But you would still be wrong. White women alone do not outnumber men. If you count all women everywhere, then they do outnumber men by a slight margin.

Is that really how you wanted to spin it? From "white people benefit from AA more than any other protected catagory[sic]." to "all women everywhere benefit from AA more than any other protected catagory[sic]." I don't think that's accurate either, but at this point it's so far off from your original statement that it doesn't really matter anyway.

Want to try again or are we done here?

 

[CountZero]

To me the problem with AA is that the over represented person is still displaced. Its not as if extra positions are created when an under represented person gets a position.

Personally I don't think I should have to miss oppurtunities because I'm a white male, I just don't see how that is fair. It isn't right to punish someone for being part of the 'majority' anymore than it is to punish someone for being a minority. period.

 

[Train]

some of the verbiage resorted to in here by supporters of AA, in an effort to somehow defend its existince, is really shocking.

 

[DanceMan]

Originally posted by: Satchel

Originally posted by: DanceMan

Originally posted by: Satchel

Originally posted by: DanceMan

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: DanceMan

Originally posted by: Vic
PC'ers don't like being forced to admit that AA (and similar forced diversity programs) are inherently racist because they (these programs) begin with the assumption that minorities are incapable of acheiving on their own merit.

That's incorrect -- you really don't know the true definition of AA. You are more describing quotas. Yes, there is a difference.

DanceMan

Well I am no more informed by incorrect than I was by the bald assertion of what the assumption behind AA was. I disagree with Vic too in this way. I believe that the assumption I would call a fact behind AA is that many minorities, far from not being able to achieve on their own merits, have actually suffered massively more damage to their belief in their merit than most other people. This is because minorities and especially blacks have been subjected to intense bigoted hate for centuries and have had their families and cultural values ripped apart, on average. AA is an attempt to redress the destruction that was done. The problem, of course, is that self esteem problems are hard to fix because nobody will admit to having them. And nothing pisses off those who feel worthless more than the thought that some other worthless-feeling person is getting help. "I feel worthless, God Damn it, I will never admit to myself, and I made it all on my own; why can't that other worthless son of a bitch do the same."

We all feel absolutely worthless deeply hidden within, but the absolute magnitude of the damage we suffered runs up and down a scale.

Oh BS. There are more poor "white trash" (most of whom have been that way for generations) in the US than there are black people. When do they get their redress?

Point being, you can't fix a person's self-esteem problem by giving them a free ride. "Here, we all know you don't deserve it *wink*wink*" Yeah, that works...

The problem is that people think that discrimination has only economic consequences. It has socio-economic consequences, and that is what is addressed by AA.

By the way, AA is not race (or any other category) specific. As a matter of fact, white people benefit from AA more than any other protected catagory.

DanceMan

Prove it.

Edited: Somehow, it posted before I wanted it to!

I'm not sure which you're asking me to prove, but's let's take each statement that I made above:

1) AA is not race or any category specific. That's tough to prove, but as I learned it (as part of a corporate training class), this is the definition that I know: When there are two candidates that are equally qualified, the underrepresented person shoud be given the consideration. I see a lot of definitions with the word 'minority' instead of 'underrepresented', but even in this case, I still think it works, because white people can be in the minority, too, depending on the situation. And we do see this happening in a number of cases. I have always stated that AA should be applied in this cases also.

2) As for how white people benefit more from AA than any other protected class, here's the response that I gave to a previous P&N forum discussion on AA:

As to how white people mostly benefit from AA, a little known fact is that white (or any) females are covered by AA guidelines. This is a very important concept to understand. There are slightly more females than males in the U.S. population, therefore AA actually applies to the majority of the population -- not just some small minority segment, as many people believe. Secondly, having women (white or otherwise) in the workforce has had a profound impact on our economy and society. It has been said that women have been an integral part of the 80's and 90's economic boom. Working women have allowed families to afford (and spend more) with two-incomes rather than one, and all of the benefits (and as some point out, drawbacks) that that entails. And, very recently we have now seen a crop of women CEO's that have done well leading Fortune 500 companies. Well, although they might be very talented and capable, they owe a lot of success to AA. Finally, realizing this, this should squelch the feeling that many white males have that they will be passed over for employment, promotions or education for an un-qualfied minority. They would be more statistically likely to be passed over for a white female than any other AA-represented person.

DanceMan

1) After reading this I have a better understanding of why you made the original comments that you did. It's not because you've made any kind of a compelling argument, it's because I now know that you're knowledge of AA comes from a "corporate training class." :roll: You say "white people can be in the minority, too, depending on the situation." How is this possible? Have the demographics of the United States changed dramatically in the last few days? If you're seriously implying that if three equally qualified applicants apply for a position and two of the applicants are black and one of them is white then the white is the minority, then you're understanding of AA is truly lacking.

2) So when you said "white people benefit from AA more than any other protected catagory[sic]." you really meant to say all women everywhere? Because that is the only way that your argument could possibly hold water, and it's a stretch even then. If you want to change your original statement from "white people" to "white women" that's fine, I don't have a problem with that. But you would still be wrong. White women alone do not outnumber men. If you count all women everywhere, then they do outnumber men by a slight margin.

Is that really how you wanted to spin it? From "white people benefit from AA more than any other protected catagory[sic]." to "all women everywhere benefit from AA more than any other protected catagory[sic]." I don't think that's accurate either, but at this point it's so far off from your original statement that it doesn't really matter anyway.

Want to try again or are we done here?

No, but I wish to address your comments anyway. How is the fact that I learned something from a 'corporate training class' a negative thing? If I made the same argument about learning something in college, would that be a negative too? By the way, I know quite a bit about AA and it's principals by my 15+ years of training and working with corporations on diversity issues. To me, it's not much different in training about AA (usually changed to it's more PC-name 'diversity') now than about safety or quality training.

There are cases where whites are a minority. Look at large urban centers, especially city governments. You can't just think about the overall population. Demographics haven't changed much in the last few days, but have within even the past 10-15 years. Whites are already a minority in states like California. And, I'll think you will now see there will be more and more 'reverse-discrimination' cases come up. This is why I think that AA will also apply to them. And, no your example about the job candidates is NOT what I'm saying at all. I said look at the current population doing a 'job function'. It dosen't matter what the candidate pool looks like, it's those who are doing a 'job function'. And my understanding of AA issues, I assure you, is quite good.

I mean what I say about AA, with no spin needed. I'm just sick and tired about everyone saying that 'blacks' get this and that over the detriment to 'white' people (or, more specifically, white males), like 'blacks' are the only people assumed to benefit from AA. I just pointed out the fact that the majority of white people (females) are protected, and so if you're looking for someone to rail at first, maybe it should be them.

As for population makeup, the 2002 Census Bureau Population Estimate says that there are more white women than white males (as well as any other minority group for that matter). If you disagree with that, take it up with them. My point still stands.

DanceMan

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: CountZero
To me the problem with AA is that the over represented person is still displaced. Its not as if extra positions are created when an under represented person gets a position.

Personally I don't think I should have to miss oppurtunities because I'm a white male, I just don't see how that is fair. It isn't right to punish someone for being part of the 'majority' anymore than it is to punish someone for being a minority. period.

OMG PEOPLE - AA will not make an "underqualified black person" get a job over a white person with the skills. PROOF: LOOK AT THE ARTICLE - JEEBUS. NO, Black people are not getting jobs left and right because of AA. OTOH we are NOT getting jobs left and right - because of racism. This is not somthing NEW. And FYI for the fool saying algebra and math are not in "their culture." "Black Culture" and history for that point did not START at slavery in the 1500's. These are stereotypes that go back for a LONG TIME in the United States. Consider the cause please. The %'age of Black people that will even get a job because of AA is probably under 5. Whether you choose to believe it or not, being white you have an added advantage to Just about everything in the United States - even over Native Americans (Soon to be foreigners.) Everyone else is like a second class citizen...............Budda be praised, let reincarnation be true.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
God Vic, you can be such an idiot. You want to be race blind after the black horse got capped. You want to cry about how people can't benefit from handouts but look at all the damage done by deprivation. We're not talking handouts but opportunity an expanded chance to succeed. You bury people and tell them to dig themselves out. You suffer the conceit of the imagined self made who need to assume from self hate that they made it on merit. You are what you are as a result of accident you know nothing about.

The first flaw in your argument, Moonie, is that it is not I who has buried anyone. I feel no self hate. Simply pity and disgust for those misguided individuals who cannot tell the difference between choice and coercion... between opportunity and the point of a gun. That is all.[/q

There is no flaw in my argument, Vic, except that I can't give you the insight to see yourself. You and I bury people every day we are alive from self hate. The only difference between you and me is that I have had a chance to feel what you have buried within. One can feel neither pity nor disgust when there is self love. And as was pointed out, this is not about choice vs coercion. This is about giving people who have everything it takes to make it a chance to get in the door because ridiculous, irrational, and historically ancient and deep rooted assumptions typically bar them. It's not about giving opportunities to those less qualified over more qualified folk.

 

[Satchel]

Originally posted by: DanceMan
No, but I wish to address your comments anyway. How is the fact that I learned something from a 'corporate training class' a negative thing? If I made the same argument about learning something in college, would that be a negative too? By the way, I know quite a bit about AA and it's principals by my 15+ years of training and working with corporations on diversity issues. To me, it's not much different in training about AA (usually changed to it's more PC-name 'diversity') now than about safety or quality training.

Congratulations, you're required to take diversity training classes just like everyone else that works for a decent sized corporation. However, diversity /= AA. Not even close.

Originally posted by: DanceMan
There are cases where whites are a minority. Look at large urban centers, especially city governments. You can't just think about the overall population. Demographics haven't changed much in the last few days, but have within even the past 10-15 years. Whites are already a minority in states like California. And, I'll think you will now see there will be more and more 'reverse-discrimination' cases come up. This is why I think that AA will also apply to them. And, no your example about the job candidates is NOT what I'm saying at all. I said look at the current population doing a 'job function'. It dosen't matter what the candidate pool looks like, it's those who are doing a 'job function'. And my understanding of AA issues, I assure you, is quite good.

AA is Federal, so geographic location is irrelevant. If whites eventually do become the minority in this country, as you suggest, then AA will deviate from it's original intent and it will become antiquated, won't it?

Originally posted by: DanceMan
I mean what I say about AA, with no spin needed. I'm just sick and tired about everyone saying that 'blacks' get this and that over the detriment to 'white' people (or, more specifically, white males), like 'blacks' are the only people assumed to benefit from AA. I just pointed out the fact that the majority of white people (females) are protected, and so if you're looking for someone to rail at first, maybe it should be them.

I'm not against AA nor am I looking to "rail" at anyone. You claimed that white people benefit from AA more than any other protected category. I asked you to back it up and you were unable to do so, it's really that simple.

Originally posted by: DanceMan
As for population makeup, the 2002 Census Bureau Population Estimate says that there are more white women than white males (as well as any other minority group for that matter). If you disagree with that, take it up with them. My point still stands.

Does the Census Bureau say that white women alone outnumber all other minorities, both male and female, in this country? If not, then your point is moot.

 

[Vic]

Satchel, on ATPN, if you are not for something then you MUST be against it. The nutjobs here are zealots to their political religion. In fact, what they would have is very much like the medievel Catholic church. Questioning it is heresy. To speak out is blasphemy. And Moonie is the priest to whom we are all to confess our sins...

 

[DanceMan]

Originally posted by: Satchel
Congratulations, you're required to take diversity training classes just like everyone else that works for a decent sized corporation. However, diversity /= AA. Not even close.

You must have missed the part when I said I have given such diversity training to corporations and non-profits as a trainer (as well as taken it) Also, I never said that diversity == AA. What I said was that people change the name to diversity when AA is mentioned, like it's a bad word or something.

Originally posted by: Satchel
AA is Federal, so geographic location is irrelevant. If whites eventually do become the minority in this country, as you suggest, then AA will deviate from it's original intent and it will become antiquated, won't it?.

AA is a federally-defined program, but states and local government implement their own plans of action within the federal guidelines. As for AA being antiquated, I don't know. Maybe the new majority will discriminate against the new 'minority' whites??

Originally posted by: Satchel
I'm not against AA nor am I looking to "rail" at anyone. You claimed that white people benefit from AA more than any other protected category. I asked you to back it up and you were unable to do so, it's really that simple.

I wasn't addressing you specifically. But, if you feel defensive about it, so be it. And, I didn't know that white females were not considered to be people. You must like to keep them barefoot and pregnant, huh? :disgust:

Originally posted by: Satchel
Does the Census Bureau say that white women alone outnumber all other minorities, both male and female, in this country? If not, then your point is moot.

If you say so. I don't see your point here either. Minorites would have to compete against this same pool, as well as white males.

DanceMan

 

[Satchel]

Originally posted by: DanceMan
You must have missed the part when I said I have given such diversity training to corporations and non-profits as a trainer (as well as taken it) Also, I never said that diversity == AA. What I said was that people change the name to diversity when AA is mentioned, like it's a bad word or something.

If I missed it it's only because you never said it. Did you miss the part where I said that I own the Boston Red Sox? Oh wait a minute, I never did mention that and it's not relevant anyway. :roll:

Originally posted by: DanceMan
AA is a federally-defined program, but states and local government implement their own plans of action within the federal guidelines. As for AA being antiquated, I don't know. Maybe the new majority will discriminate against the new 'minority' whites??

Now you're just making things up. AA is completely regulated at the Federal level by the Department of Labor.

Originally posted by: DanceMan
I wasn't addressing you specifically. But, if you feel defensive about it, so be it. And, I didn't know that white females were not considered to be people. You must like to keep them barefoot and pregnant, huh? :disgust:

Are you seriously resorting to calling me sexist because you can't prove the ridiculous statement that you made? Here, let me remind you of exactly what you said, "white people benefit from AA more than any other protected catagory." You did not specify male or female, therefore ALL white people is implied. This is grade school English that most 5th graders can easily comprehend. Let me give you an example of how ambiguous your argument has become.

DanceMan: "Ford cars have a top speed of 70 mph."
Satchel: "I really don't think that's true. Can you prove it?"
DanceMan: "A 1978 Ford Pinto will only go 70 mph."
Satchel: "But there are plenty of other Fords that will do well over 70 mph."
DanceMan: "You don't think a Pinto is a Ford!!!!"

Your argument is utterly ridiculous and I think you know it.

Originally posted by: DanceMan
If you say so. I don't see your point here either. Minorites would have to compete against this same pool, as well as white males.

Now you're saying that white males are a protected class that benefits from AA? I'm done wasting my time with you.

 

[RichPLS]

I cannot believe how simple this test is!
If you can not score an 86 or better on this test, then you should not even qualify for a MajicMart Cashier!

Read the Article if you have not!

Applicants must pass an initial screening before they are allowed to take the first-round tests. If they pass these tests, they progress to physical testing.

The different tests and sample question from each:

Math test

Measures how well applicants are able to perform basic mathematical functions required of an entry-level firefighter. It consists of fire-related story problems and formulas. The test is made up of addition, subtraction, multiplication and division problems. In addition, some problems call for simple algebra. There are 25 questions.

? A firefighter has to search a warehouse that is 60 feet long and 40 feet wide. What is the perimeter of the warehouse?

A. 100 feet

B. 150 feet

C. 200 feet

D. 240 feet

Spatial location

Measures an applicant's ability to read maps and figure out directions. The test measures how well candidates are able to recognize the direction in which they are headed and how well they are able to assess the viability and length of various routes on a map. There are 25 questions.

? You are at the store on Lake and heading to the cleaners on Forest. What is the shortest way to get there?

A. North on Lake to Forest, east on Forest

B. South on Lake to Indian, east on Indian to Black, North on Black to Forest, east on Forest

C. South on Lake to Indian, east on Indian to Meadow, north on Meadow to Forest, west on Forest

D. South on Lake to Indian, east on Indian to Pacific, north on Pacific to Forest, west on Forest

Reading comprehension

Measures how well applicants understand what they read. In consists of a number of short paragraphs followed by questions. The information needed to answer the questions is contained in the paragraphs. In some instances, they may have to draw a logical conclusion based on the information given. There are 25 questions.

? The behavior of wildland fire is affected by weather. The wind fans the flames into greater intensity and provides fresh air that speeds combustion. Medium amount of recent precipitation, as well as the current relative humidity, also affect fire behavior. Long-term drying of brush produces a fuel that is more combustible, while precipitation determines the moisture content of live fuels.

According to the passage, wind affects the behavior of wildland fire by drying it out and making it more combustible.

A. True

B. False

As stated in the passage, which of the following weather factors affect fire behavior in wildlands.

A. Wind

B. Temperature

C. The amount of recent rainfall

D. Both A and C

Mechanical aptitude

Measures mechanical abilities that are important to the entry-level firefighter position. Applicants are shown an animated video of mechanical procedure. The test is made up of 31 questions that have anywhere from two to five multiple-choice answers.

? What should be the reading on the scale?

A. 10 pounds

B. 20 pounds

C. 30 pounds

D. 0 pounds

 

[ExpertNovice]

Originally posted by: Zebois disqualifying felons for civil service positions racist agains blacks?
----------------------------
Disqualifing ex-cons is bad idea anyway in a fair and just society. If we feel he'she is safe to be among general population and they have paid their time, why continue thier punishment as a free person? Either thier not safe so lock them back up, or they are safe and did thier time and should enjoy the rights of being a free citizen again. Purgatory is gods domain.

There are many criminals who agree with you. Burglars, pedophiles, rapists, .... I'm sure you would allow your son to be driven by an EX con who had been convicted of molesting little boys. Luckily, such attitudes are still in the minority.

Originally posted by: EyeMNathan
Since firefighters were mentioned as an example:

Would you want to be rescued by someone who is actually a very poor firefighter and only got their job because of their skin color?

Sure, if I were unconscious in a burning building I would not ask the firefighter if they were a poor or great firefighter. If they rescue me (or anyone else) I wouldn't care. Now, if they failed to rescue someone because they didn't know what to do, then yes, i would care.






beyoku mentioned blacks and racism... what is now called the racists trump card.

The article mentions that many blacks failed some video simulation and a math test. (What does math have to do with fire fighting?) It also mentions that many blacks were disqualified because of a criminal record. There should be no problem with that, as long as it is uniformly applied, although many liberals believe that minorities should be allowed to commit crimes without negative ramifications to their actions.

The article states, "Duncan, the president of the Colorado Black Professional Firefighters association, said no one is advocating for the lowering of the department's standards." But, the standards were lowered to avoid discrimination against women and it sounds, despite the contention, that the standards are supposed to be lowered again to allow criminals. Black or not. Perhaps they only want to lower those standards for minorities but that would be illegal, morally, and ethically wrong.

Unfortunately I never saw the poll the first responders said no to all questions. The article only had tests including a simple addition problem which I guess was the math that was so difficult. I could see this as being important if it was necessary to calculate how much hose to string out. I would,however, question anyone stringing hose around the perimeter of a burning building or first taking the time to measure the building!

In summay the article hints a racism but doesn't support it other than to say it is racist to not allow criminals to become firemen.

 

[piasabird]

I thought this was an Article on Alcoholics Anonymous!

What do you mean by the term AA, and what does it have to do with Fire Fighters?

Do they allow small Male Fire Fighters?

 

[Stas]

AA - African-American
This diversity is BS. Voted NO on every question. I am tired of people not doing anything but complaining about how it's because they're black/mexican/chinese. Apply some effort, damn it, this is not welfare, you have to LEARN AND WORK.

 

[Stas]

"The cutoff score was not moved so that it eliminated minorities, he said."
And it cannot be. You're either smart enough or not. They will take the best one. I don't see why he should even mention this.
I am sooooo pissed right now!

My mom is taking classes at a community college. The freaking teacher there does not teach them AT ALL. She gives them 5-10 chapters to read on their own at home and a 100-200 question take-home test. They do that, turn it in next class and they get another 5-10 chapters and so on until the final exam. And you know WHY? Because the mexican teacher there can not speak English "very well", so she decides not to teach. AND SHE GETS PAID! WTF!!!!!!!!! THIS COUNTRY IS DOOMED!!!!!!

 

[beyoku]

bhaa, whatever. Jesus is white!? Racism is the underlying theme in the US when it comes to every form of human relation? Even in faith, example: Jesus is white. If white people think they dont have the upperhand in the US then they just simply dont want to believe.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: beyoku
bhaa, whatever. Jesus is white!? Racism is the underlying theme in the US when it comes to every form of human relation? Even in faith, example: Jesus is white. If white people think they dont have the upperhand in the US then they just simply dont want to believe.

I dare you to find just one culture in the entire history of the world where their deity/prophet/messiah is/was not the same race/color/whatever as the culture. Just one.
In fact, it's not terribly uncommon to see a black Jesus in a black church.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: beyoku
bhaa, whatever. Jesus is white!? Racism is the underlying theme in the US when it comes to every form of human relation? Even in faith, example: Jesus is white. If white people think they dont have the upperhand in the US then they just simply dont want to believe.

I dare you to find just one culture in the entire history of the world where their deity/prophet/messiah is/was not the same race/color/whatever as the culture. Just one.
In fact, it's not terribly uncommon to see a black Jesus in a black church.

BUT he is still white right? The egyptians are white too. You saying that Jesus is based on European culture?

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: beyoku
bhaa, whatever. Jesus is white!? Racism is the underlying theme in the US when it comes to every form of human relation? Even in faith, example: Jesus is white. If white people think they dont have the upperhand in the US then they just simply dont want to believe.

I dare you to find just one culture in the entire history of the world where their deity/prophet/messiah is/was not the same race/color/whatever as the culture. Just one.
In fact, it's not terribly uncommon to see a black Jesus in a black church.

BUT he is still white right? The egyptians are white too. You saying that Jesus is based on European culture?

Basically, thats the idea I got.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: beyoku
bhaa, whatever. Jesus is white!? Racism is the underlying theme in the US when it comes to every form of human relation? Even in faith, example: Jesus is white. If white people think they dont have the upperhand in the US then they just simply dont want to believe.

I dare you to find just one culture in the entire history of the world where their deity/prophet/messiah is/was not the same race/color/whatever as the culture. Just one.
In fact, it's not terribly uncommon to see a black Jesus in a black church.

BUT he is still white right? The egyptians are white too. You saying that Jesus is based on European culture?

Basically, thats the idea I got.

Yes. Christianity was originally a Greek religion, and Christianity has been a European religion since its earliest founding (in Rome). Jesus was a Jew.

Are you avoiding my challenge? Is not Buddha typically portrayed as an Asian?

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: beyoku
bhaa, whatever. Jesus is white!? Racism is the underlying theme in the US when it comes to every form of human relation? Even in faith, example: Jesus is white. If white people think they dont have the upperhand in the US then they just simply dont want to believe.

I dare you to find just one culture in the entire history of the world where their deity/prophet/messiah is/was not the same race/color/whatever as the culture. Just one.
In fact, it's not terribly uncommon to see a black Jesus in a black church.

BUT he is still white right? The egyptians are white too. You saying that Jesus is based on European culture?

Basically, thats the idea I got.

Yes. Christianity was originally a Greek religion, and Christianity has been a European religion since its earliest founding (in Rome). Jesus was a Jew.

Are you avoiding my challenge? Is not Buddha typically portrayed as an Asian?

I am not avoiding anything, I happen to agree with you completely. :Q

 

[Vic]

Oops... that comment was meant to be to beyoku.

 

[Tommunist]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: beyoku
bhaa, whatever. Jesus is white!? Racism is the underlying theme in the US when it comes to every form of human relation? Even in faith, example: Jesus is white. If white people think they dont have the upperhand in the US then they just simply dont want to believe.

I dare you to find just one culture in the entire history of the world where their deity/prophet/messiah is/was not the same race/color/whatever as the culture. Just one.
In fact, it's not terribly uncommon to see a black Jesus in a black church.

the aztecs - http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/latinamerica/topics/spanish_conquest.html

Also, the Aztecs believed that the god Quetzalcoatl was going to return and destroy the Aztec empire. Quetzalcoatl was seen as a man with light hair, and light colored skin, and it was thought by the Aztec, that Cortez was the returning Quetzalcoatl.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Vic
Satchel, on ATPN, if you are not for something then you MUST be against it. The nutjobs here are zealots to their political religion. In fact, what they would have is very much like the medievel Catholic church. Questioning it is heresy. To speak out is blasphemy. And Moonie is the priest to whom we are all to confess our sins...

Getting you to confess would require an Inquisition.

 

[judasmachine]

no the standards (as far as physical, and educational) should not be changed, but we should just educate minorities better.

BTW whites are no longer a majority here in TX. Those dumb white people should just read more so they can pass the test. (this is a joke )