political rhetorical tone & the shooting of a Congress woman

[PsiStar]

It seems the Sunday AM pundits are trying to draw a straight line between cause and effect. The "cause" being the purportedly increase in emotionalism associated with the issues. "Sarah Palin", with the association as a rabble rouser, is also often mentioned in the next breath.

One pundit mentioned that with those with mental issues (the shooter in this case obviously), cannot be easily be construed as being politically motivated. Although I find it very difficult to separate the intentional shooting of a politician, otherwise apparently unknown to the shooter, other than political motivation!

There are so many issues on issues & events that have occurred in just the past year, that I don't know where to start or end the conversation.

 

[GTaudiophile]

I watched many of the shows this Sunday morning and came away with the following pattern:

Left: Hate-rhetoric was the cause and must stop, often citing Sarah Palin's "target" graphic.
Right: The guy was insane and to label him with any type of coherent political ideology is to give him too much credit.

I personally believe that those on the left have jumped way too quickly to politicize this issue.

Let us have time to mourn the dead for fuck's sake, especially that of the 9yo girl who knew nothing of politics.

 

[William Gaatjes]

It is a confused individual that caused the crimes, not a group of people with a certain political view.
However, it is pretty obvious that people who are easy deceived or paranoid do not fare well in an environment where there is so much calls for violence. You can do the research yourself which group is overly aggressive. As such these people must question themselves if this path they have chosen to walk is the right way.

 

[ProfJohn]

The guy burned an American flag and listed the Communist Manifesto among his favorite books so he is obviously a left wing nut job.

 

[Moonbeam]

What goes around comes around.

Conformity and control are established and maintained by violence and fear of violence.

Conformity and control, violence and fear tell the individuated person he is worthless if he does not assimilate to whatever it is the authoritarian pattern has dictated is the one and only good. The other, the uncontrolled, the different, is always evil.

He who has been trained to love the prison of conformity to authority and hate his original free self when he sees it in the other becomes the apparatchik, the machine, the all consuming borg that fills the world with violence and fear. This is easily seen in the brain dead Al Quaeda and the fundamentalist Taliban with their fear and contempt for women in their willing use of violence and fear to establish control, but the monster never dies because we never see it in ourselves.

Each of us has been through worse than a concentration camp and children. We were made to conform with violence and fear. You do not now remember, but it happened. It had to have happened. You had to conform. And now we are all disciples of conformity and folk not like us are heretics and a dangerous evil. We are the tools the machine whips up to keep order. We are the prisoners of self hate who riot at the thought of freedom. You must live in prison with me.

Humanity is asleep, living in a wrong world. Everything that happens has to happen as it does. We are asleep and act like machines. A machine is a machine. Only the real self can be free to act consciously.

Think about that if you have a sudden urge to reply mechanically. Think about that, of course, if you can. Can you?

 

[Patranus]

I watched many of the shows this Sunday morning and came away with the following pattern:

Left: Hate-rhetoric was the cause and must stop, often citing Sarah Palin's "target" graphic.
Right: The guy was insane and to label him with any type of coherent political ideology is to give him too much credit.

I personally believe that those on the left have jumped way too quickly to politicize this issue.

Let us have time to mourn the dead for fuck's sake, especially that of the 9yo girl who knew nothing of politics.

Exactly.

 

[Moonbeam]

The guy burned an American flag and listed the Communist Manifesto among his favorite books so he is obviously a left wing nut job.

Could be. The last message he left on my space or somewhere was, "Don't hate me!"

You may not understand that plea like I do, but it couldn't be clearer that the real message was sent to himself, 'Please oh please free me from this self hate I can't escape. Let me return to you the violence that was done to me and let me die doing so to end my pain. Yes, don't hate me, let me hate you and never see how much I do.'

This poor fool acted out his self hate and that is a no no, but he did so because, unlike us, he couldn't stay asleep without horrible dreams, and he had no idea where to turn for light and help. Indeed, where would one find that. Are you one from whom he could ask, don't hate me, and get the answer, OK, truthfully?

 

[Moonbeam]

Exactly.

As I said, what goes around comes around. Your 'exactly' won't protect you.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

If I were a betting man I'd bet big that the second individual they are looking for was an accomplice, likely even the catalyst, and has as coherent a political philosophy as any tea party extremist.

 

[Martin]

Let me try to summarize it for you conservatives:

The governor of Punjab, a liberal critic of blasphemy laws named Salman Taseer, was assassinated earlier this week. Do you think this was an odd one-off, or do you think it has a lot to do with the pervasive islamic fundamentalism in Pakistan?

A liberal congresswoman who supported unpopular liberal policies and views was the target of an assassination attempt. Do you think it was an odd one-off, or do you think it has something to do with the pervasive vitriol and hateful rhetoric aimed at people like her for many years.


Of course, this isn't a straight cause-and-effect. Simply, Palin and Beck (and many others) are responsible for creating a favourable climate for crazies like this guy. Crazy right wingers will deny this of course, but the rest of us can see it plainly.

 

[Moonbeam]

Let me try to summarize it for you conservatives:

The governor of Punjab, a liberal critic of blasphemy laws named Salman Taseer, was assassinated earlier this week. Do you think this was an odd one-off, or do you think it has a lot to do with the pervasive islamic fundamentalism in Pakistan?

A liberal congresswoman who supported unpopular liberal policies and views was the target of an assassination attempt. Do you think it was an odd one-off, or do you think it has something to do with the pervasive vitriol and hateful rhetoric aimed at people like her for many years.


Of course, this isn't a straight cause-and-effect. Simply, Palin and Beck (and many others) are responsible for creating a favourable climate for crazies like this guy. Crazy right wingers will deny this of course, but the rest of us can see it plainly.

To the extent that any left leaning ideology becomes dogmatic and authoritarian, the same thing will apply. It isn't left or right so much, but how much you believe. It is certainty of correctness that leads to violence, no, because that's how violence is justified, no?

 

[matt0611]

Political rhetoric? Are you serious?

What about a better question: Why did this guy never get help he obviously needed and how did he get access to a gun?

 

[William Gaatjes]

Political rhetoric? Are you serious?

What about a better question: Why did this guy never get help he obviously needed and how did he get access to a gun?

What is interesting is his background. Was he or not an aggressive person ?
What was his motive, that is the most important question.

I personally have this view :
It kind of smells as someone who just snapped.
Someone who is in the middle of political parties attacking each other.
Who is easily influenced. Where a not insignificant part of one party seems to me overly aggressive.

 

[Jaskalas]

political rhetorical tone & the shooting of a Congress woman

It's the 'Tea Party did it' argument, of course. Maybe we need to censor political discourse!

Opposition to the health care law was out of line, and this is a consequence? BS. I don't buy that, do you?

 

[JSt0rm]

Why does the sheriff keep talking about all the right wing hate speech? Maybe he knows something more about this kid at this point? Maybe this kids loose screw was turned more by the right wing pundits?

 

[Amused]

What is interesting is his background. Was he or not an aggressive person ?
What was his motive, that is the most important question.

I personally have this view :
It kind of smells as someone who just snapped.
Someone who is in the middle of political parties attacking each other.
Who is easily influenced. Where a not insignificant part of one party seems to me overly aggressive.

He didn't snap.

He is obviously schizophrenic. 20 some years ago my brother descended into schizophrenia, and this kids writings are much like his. It happens in the late teens or early 20s. A kid will be relatively normal until then.

He was banned from community college and ask to get a mental health check. He was also denied entry into the Army for what appears to be the same reason.

The guy was sick. Period. It's just too bad he wasn't officially diagnosed before he was able to buy a gun.

 

[Amused]

Why does the sheriff keep talking about all the right wing hate speech? Maybe he knows something more about this kid at this point? Maybe this kids loose screw was turned more by the right wing pundits?

Would be a dream come true for you, wouldn't it?

 

[Throckmorton]

The anti-government hysteria is both on the far right and the far left. Just look at the support from the far left and far right anarchist-libertarians for Wikileaks.

 

[hal2kilo]

If I were a betting man I'd bet big that the second individual they are looking for was an accomplice, likely even the catalyst, and has as coherent a political philosophy as any tea party extremist.

I hate jumping the gun on this one, but I've been thinking to same thing. This other person used this poor soul.

 

[JSt0rm]

Would be a dream come true for you, wouldn't it?

It's not a dream. There was just another live news conference and he waxed on about it again.

 

[William Gaatjes]

He didn't snap.

He is obviously schizophrenic. 20 some years ago my brother descended into schizophrenia, and this kids writings are much like his. It happens in the late teens or early 20s. A kid will be relatively normal until then.

He was banned from community college and ask to get a mental health check. He was also denied entry into the Army for what appears to be the same reason.

The guy was sick. Period. It's just too bad he wasn't officially diagnosed before he was able to buy a gun.

Well, i agree that he may be schizophrenic. I think it is possible. But i do not know. Something the experts have to decide.
Suppose it is so.
Then the question raises again, what are the signs ? And it seems to me as with most of the people who have done similar actions were frustrated too but where not overly violent when compared to others in general. At a certain moment these mental patients seem to enter this endless loop. And it will not end. And you have to agree with me that someone who is mentally ill or starts becoming seriously detached from reality does not get any happier when people around that person are constantly yelling that the end of the world is coming. And that is my point. No doubt about it that this person has problems. But as always the environment plays an important part. You cannot ignore that.

 

[JD50]

I hate jumping the gun on this one, but I've been thinking to same thing. This other person used this poor soul.

No you don't. You and the other sick liberal extremists are absolutely giddy at the thought of this guy being a teabagger. It's obvious to anyone that's been reading this board since it happened.

 

[hal2kilo]

To the extent that any left leaning ideology becomes dogmatic and authoritarian, the same thing will apply. It isn't left or right so much, but how much you believe. It is certainty of correctness that leads to violence, no, because that's how violence is justified, no?

Beware of Zealots is my basic rule.

 

[JSt0rm]

No you don't. You and the other sick liberal extremists are absolutely giddy at the thought of this guy being a teabagger. It's obvious to anyone that's been reading this board since it happened.

No. We arent giddy. This is a very serious situation and borders on sedition.

 

[Craig234]

No you don't. You and the other sick liberal extremists are absolutely giddy at the thought of this guy being a teabagger. It's obvious to anyone that's been reading this board since it happened.

95%+ of what is said about liberals here is wrong or lies, I can't remember the other 5%.