Police shoot man to death at Carls Jr

[airdata]

Video is taken from inside of a car w\ wet windows...
They taze him and he doesn't go down ( sweater too thick? ) and then he goes to swing whatever he has pipe/ sledge hammer at one of the cops and is shot 5 times. Then is shot 5 more times after he hits the ground.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY5ioBvrYIg&feature=player_embedded#!

I'm going with unjustified use of force here and anxiously await all of the people posting w\ joy at the guy being killed.

I just think they should have used other non lethal methods before jumping straight to 10 gun shots. Shoot him in the leg or other non vital spots before killing him.

 

[xj0hnx]

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Not going to join a site to see a link, maybe find another link?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY5io...ayer_embedded#

Better

 

[zsdersw]

On the whole, it's better they shot and killed him. That way the guy won't have to eat there.

 

[waggy]

unjustified? he tried to kill them with a pipe or whatever.

they tried other non lethal methods. the tazer didn't work! totally justified. this ain't the movies you have a hard enough time hitting a target when under stress. To try to shoot a leg/arm is going to miss and kill someone else or allow the idiot to kill the cop he was going for.


it looks like he was holding a ice climbing pick. yeah that could do some damage..

 

[EagleKeeper]

To hit a targeted spot in the non body mass is not that easy when under pressure. shot does wild or does not connect cleanly, other injuries to bystanders can happen

They used what non-lethal tools they had, it did not work.
It forced it to become a choice of who goes down first, him or the LWO. The perp lost

 

[spacejamz]

Maybe someone should starting swinging a sledge hammer at the OP and then see if he still thinks non-lethal methods to stop this attack should be found...

Seriously, this 'shoot him the leg' non-sense just shows how much of a fool the OP is...

 

[spidey07]

Good shoot and by the book. Nothing wrong here. A pipe or heave object with blunt force is enough to kill with one blow. Deadly force totally justified.

Don't want to get killed/shot by police? Don't try to kill or cause severe bodily injury to police.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Good shoot and by the book. Nothing wrong here. A pipe or heave object with blunt force is enough to kill with one blow. Deadly force totally justified.

Don't want to get killed/shot by police? Don't try to kill or cause severe bodily injury to police.

This may be the only time you ever hear me say this about a Spidey post.

WINRAR! /Thread


PS: How about we shoot you in the leg OP? It would be less than 10-ish minutes for you to bleed out (assuming a femoral artery hit and no first aid being given until you pass out due to you being still armed and agitated.).

 

[monovillage]

Sorry airdata, bad shooting not found. It may not be what you would have done, or what you want done, but people with experience and knowledge will say "it was a righteous shooting"

 

[Broheim]

V
I just think they should have used other non lethal methods before jumping straight to 10 gun shots. Shoot him in the leg or other non vital spots before killing him.

find a safe spot to shoot someone... keep in mind you don't even have to hit a major artery or vein to nick it and you have to take organs into account.

even if your hand wasn't shaking, your adrenalin pumping and you had all the time in the world to aim you wouldn't be able to "shoot someone safely" in a way that would stop them.

 

[CPA]

Video is taken from inside of a car w\ wet windows...
They taze him and he doesn't go down ( sweater too thick? ) and then he goes to swing whatever he has pipe/ sledge hammer at one of the cops and is shot 5 times. Then is shot 5 more times after he hits the ground.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY5ioBvrYIg&feature=player_embedded#!

I'm going with unjustified use of force here and anxiously await all of the people posting w\ joy at the guy being killed.

I just think they should have used other non lethal methods before jumping straight to 10 gun shots. Shoot him in the leg or other non vital spots before killing him.

Oh look, another person posting about spot shooting. Good luck with that.

 

[xj0hnx]

this ain't the movies you have a hard enough time hitting a target when under stress. To try to shoot a leg/arm is going to miss and kill someone else or allow the idiot to kill the cop he was going for.

To hit a targeted spot in the non body mass is not that easy when under pressure. shot does wild or does not connect cleanly, other injuries to bystanders can happen

No way, you can just aim for the outside of the leg, totally easy, these cops are n00bs.

 

[MotF Bane]

Anybody who posts about shooting a limb, while under stress at that, can automatically be discounted from having any viable opinion about firearms. What a completely ludicrous proposal.

 

[woolfe9999]

Good shoot and by the book. Nothing wrong here. A pipe or heave object with blunt force is enough to kill with one blow. Deadly force totally justified.

Don't want to get killed/shot by police? Don't try to kill or cause severe bodily injury to police.

This.

 

[Genx87]

The guy was about to swing a pipe at the other officer after they tried to taze him. I dont see this as unjustified or excessive force at all.

And you cant shoot somebody in the leg as easy as it sounds. If he misses and hits a bystander is that ok? Center mass gives the best chance of hitting the target.

 

[SandEagle]

how did you find this before me? this belongs in OT

 

[EagleKeeper]

No way, you can just aim for the outside of the leg, totally easy, these cops are n00bs.

And how would such a wound stop a person.

You need to break a bone to do any handicapping of a person in the legs or arms.

Take a coffee cup and a rubber band gun.
While walking past the desk quickly and drop the rubber band in the cup which is on the chair behind the desk

 

[Vic Vega]

It's amazing. The police have never shot at me... I wonder if that has to do with me never attacking them? Hmmm...

 

[umbrella39]

I saw the video earlier today and had originally thought it might have been excessive but after watching what precipitated the K9 holding officer to fire was the guy lunged at the officer behind him who appeared to be putting his pepper spray back and was struggling to grab his gun and was defenseless.

 

[spidey07]

I saw the video earlier today and had originally thought it might have been excessive but after watching what precipitated the K9 holding officer to fire was the guy lunged at the officer behind him who appeared to be putting his pepper spray back and was struggling to grab his gun and was defenseless.

Oh hell. If true then that pretty much seals it up as a good shoot. The shooter likely saved his partners life. Pretty good shooting as well with only his strong hand, weak hand on puppy.

Remember to train one handed folks, strong and weak hand both. No limp wristing with lefty, mmm'kay?

-edit-
watched some more, you're exactly right, you can see the officer retreating, stumbling and reaching for his weapon. 100% good shoot, proper escalation of force and justifiable defense of another officer from deadly harm.

 

[Broheim]

The guy was about to swing a pipe at the other officer after they tried to taze him. I dont see this as unjustified or excessive force at all.

And you cant shoot somebody in the leg as easy as it sounds. If he misses and hits a bystander is that ok? Center mass gives the best chance of hitting the target.

even if he hits the leg there's a good chance the target is just going to bleed out.

 

[airdata]

Anybody who posts about shooting a limb, while under stress at that, can automatically be discounted from having any viable opinion about firearms. What a completely ludicrous proposal.

For an amateur. They're supposed to be trained professionals.

Oh look, another person posting about spot shooting. Good luck with that.

Sorry, I don't know what "spot shooting" is. Is that where police shoot a guy 10 times before exhausting non fatal measures?

 

[brandonb]

I'm undecided on this one

The reason I say that is the guy with the crowbar or whatever it was took a step towards the officer after only being attacked from behind, and then the guy backed off. If he really wanted to hurt the officer or person, he would have swung the object (and he did not - he held it up but did not swing) and/or continued running at the officer (and he did not - to me it seemed like he backed off after holding up his weapon and the cop retreated). To me, that seems like a person that is not really all that dangerous.

The guy probably had no clue it was an officer, did not see a badge, nor anything else. The guy looked oblivious to the situation when he walked out of Carl's Jr. Once he realized who was there, did he back off, and then he was shot. If the guy was walking around with a weapon, the situation is going to be tense and something prompted that to happen, and he was probably running on adrenaline. You cannot expect them to act normally. The best thing I would think is to just let it run its course and let him calm down.

Police are put into positions where things unfold very quickily and if I was the cop's partner, I probably would have shot him too... But I'd say it was poor decision to go after the guy from behind, and there was better way to handle the situation. They attempted taser, which prompted the guy to react, then they shot the guy dead for reacting. I'm sorry but if I was getting tased or attacked from behind, the first thing I'm going to do is react. I suppose that means if I'm in that situation, I'm a dead man like him as well.

Police are getting more "get out of jail free cards" when it comes to situations like this and incidents like this have only increased in the last 10 years ago. I'm not sure what they teach cops these days but it seems to be "Kill first, ask questions later" and honestly, I believed they created the situation here in which required the use of deadly force, and to me that is not what they should be doing.

Police are here to protect and serve, and in some cases the use of a taser and/or gun should be the last resort. Not the first option. Did they even attempt to communicate with the guy? Dead men tell no tales.

Even though it sounds like I'm siding with the victim here, I'm not, like I said, if I was the police, I probably would have done the same thing. I just think its sad, because I feel the victim here probably intended the police no harm when it was all said and done.

 

[spidey07]

Police are put into positions where things unfold very quickily and if I was the cop's partner, I probably would have shot him too... But I'd say it was poor decision to go after the guy from behind, and there was better way to handle the situation. They attempted taser, which prompted the guy to react, then they shot the guy dead for reacting. I'm sorry but if I was getting tased or attacked from behind, the first thing I'm going to do is react. I suppose that means if I'm in that situation, I'm a dead man like him as well.

After repeated attempts and orders to drop the weapon, you refuse, then are somehow surprised that other force is used against you when you refuse to drop the weapon? yes you will be.

Don't want to get shot? Drop the weapon when police order you to do so, and also don't lunge at officers with weapon, also don't try to kill them, don't point a gun at them, don't approach them with a knife/weapon, don't try to run over them with a car, nor a plane, nor a boat, don't try to knock them down and go for their weapon, don't have somebody waiting to attack them via surprise. These simple steps can prevent you from getting killed. When the police are yelling drop the weapon and get on the ground, what should you do?

That's right kids, you need to drop that weapon and get on the ground. Any other action is NOT the correct thing to do.

 

[airdata]

No way, you can just aim for the outside of the leg, totally easy, these cops are n00bs.

sarcasm aside i have to assume they need certification to carry a gun... shooting a target 4-5 feet away shouldn't be an issue for any police officer.